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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 6,213,245  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 233

Lurker/Post Ratio: 140 to 1

Question of the Week: 1 - 8/7/2000

Who are you going to vote for and why?

Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Do you think that a level of political involvement is important to pagans? Are you registered to vote, will you vote and who -if you don't mind telling the world- are you planning to vote for (or against)?

 Reponses:   There are 233 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Will Say It Loudly And Proudly! Come November I Will Be... Aug 9th. at 12:14:31 pm UTC

Green (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 29 - Email


I will say it loudly and proudly! Come November I will be voting for Harry Brown and the Libertarian party. The libertarians are the party of individual rights, and personal responsibility. They are committed to stripping the government down to the core functionality nessecary to run the country rather than supporting the industry of populace control through taxation.

People say that as a third party, the Libertarians have no chance. I say that if even half of those who agree with their philosopies went ahead and voted libertarian anyway, we could change the political climate of this country.


While I Am Not Fond Of Either Of The Two Presidential Candidates... Aug 9th. at 11:25:27 am UTC

Travis Kidd (Nampa, Idaho US) Age: 25 - Email


While I am not fond of either of the two presidential candidates, George W. Bush or Al Gore, who, by the polls, and statistically are the front-running contenders--I woul have to say I would rather choose the lesser of the two evils, which would be current Vice-President and democratic nominee Al Gore.

Republican condender, George W. Bush had lost my vote long ago with his anti-pagan statements about Wicca and similiar religions 'not being real religions', quotes are his.

I find it sad that someone who is to be the Chief Executive does not realize Wicca it's self has been a recognized religion since 1985, if I am correct on the date.

Now some may think that I'm just not voting for him because of some of his statements against paganism. That isn't it at all.

I will now compare Bush and Gore on how well they know their job.

First off, I will address the fact that Gore actually has a set job as vice-president and does some real 'grunt-work' helping out President Clinton.
For those who don't know, George W. Bush, as governor of Texas, doesn't really do much. The Governorship of Texas is largely a symbolic position as he doesn't really have a lot of power, he obviously can't be doing much to make changes to his state as much as his state legislature and senate can--therefore he lacks executive skills in my opinion in areas of making important decisions concerning a large amount of people.

Second of all is foreign policy. Al Gore has traveled all around the world as Vice-President meeting dignitaries and heads of other nations, as well as supported President Clinton during his visits.

As for George W. Bush, he has virtually no foregin experience with other nations, he has spent the last eight years working for big oil companies, managing his pro-sports team, and being a pretend-governor in Texas while Gore has done a perfectly fine job the last eight years on foreign policy and related issues.

Third, big oil companies and related companies. George W. Bush hangs out with the rebublican rich, and I am almost positive, that if he is elected to the Whitehouse all the ecosystems and national park areas which have been saved under the Clinton Adminisration will slowly be eroded away as Bush's special interest big-time company buddies lobby him for more access to protected land to drill for oil, logging, housing, and you name it.

Fourth, and the one which frightens me the most. If George W. Bush is elected, he will also have the ear of the notoriously strong lobbying religious right, which has been very vocal, especially lately, about limiting personal religious and civil freedoms on many different fronts in this country, not to mention abortion, homosexuality, non-majority religion's rights, and so on.

So, in closing I say, choose the lesser of two evils, Al Gore.


As I Have Stated Before, It's The Dems. For Me This Time... Aug 9th. at 11:16:35 am UTC

Steven E. Repko (Mays Landing, New Jersey US) Age: 43 - Email


As I have stated before, it's the Dems. for me this time. I am pleased to see that most pagans surveyed think before they vote, I guess we are a minority in two ways. I have been watching the posts closely and unfortunately many of us fail to realize the gravity of the particular election as it relates to us as pagans.

The next President could easily end up appointing Justices to the Supreme Court. You can vote for anyone Federal or Local because they believe what you want them to, but when push comes to shove, the Supreme Court rules (literally). Even though I do not believe that you will ever lose you right to choose or your freedom of religion (and neither does the Christian Coalition really), a conservative court could easily allow: REGULATION.

Regulation in recent years has become viewed as a “fair modification” to sensitive issues, a “reasonable compromise” or a “public safety measure”.
We have used regulation to combat “drunk driving” by making it illegal to have (in some places for some people) two beers and driving (no I don’t drink and yes I have had someone VERY close to me killed by one). We have used it to combat “needless violence”, to the point that shooting an attacker in your own home is a crime that YOU go to jail for and then get sued for later (guess you should have spent that 20 mins. getting through to 911).

A simple blood test before a “marriage license” (figure out why we need one at all) can tell you if there is a possibility of “venereal disease”. Strangely enough (depending on the tests used and the state) in some cases it can tell you whether the person you are marrying has been “racially honest” on the application.

It can mean filling out hundreds of forms to get a “license” to have a Church, or it can mean a criteria that precludes you from even filling for it. It can mean that all abortions require “prior counseling” by an “appointed mediator”. It could even mean waiting years before applying for a divorce and additional years before it can become final. Regulation can easily become a strong deterrent against exercising many of the freedoms we take for granted everyday. It doesn’t take away our rights, it just postpones them or makes them expensive.

Believe it or not, there was a country that had no: Income Taxes, Car Registration, Brewery licenses, mercantile licenses, zoning ordinances, the list goes on forever, and it was the USA.

If you believe regulation is a good thing, imagine being a “registered” Jew in WWII Germany or Soviet Russia and then tell your children that it can’t happen here. Remember that there were many good people in both countries that didn’t like the idea but “there was nothing we could do”, sounds familiar.


I Support Gore-lieberman. Somehow I'm Really Not At All Surprised To See... Aug 9th. at 10:58:37 am UTC

James (Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 34


I support Gore-Lieberman.

Somehow I'm really not at all surprised to see so many Wiccans supporting the Bush ticket. Wicca is a big religion with a lot at stake - both in growing and being recognized but also in maintaining what has become also a very big business. Wicca is definitely a growth industry. Gore on the other hand has values that actually transcend politics and finance. He would not have picked Lieberman if he didn't.

While paganism may be at odds with Christianity and Judaism theologically, I believe strongly that Gore-Lieberman reflects, inherently, respect for other beliefs. I can't see that in Bush-Cheney. Two rich oilmen from Texas we do not need running this country.




Yes, I'm Registered To Vote And Intend To Vote In The Local... Aug 9th. at 9:24:23 am UTC

Takara (Williston, Florida US) Age: 42


Yes, I'm registered to vote and intend to vote in the local, state, and national elections. Registered Independent, preferred Libertarian views. Due to lack of my preferred party candidates (very difficult for independents to get on the ballot here), I usually end up choosing the lesser of 2 evils, usually Democrats.


I Admit I'm Disturbed Slightly, I Do Not Agree With Everything The... Aug 9th. at 9:11:53 am UTC

Caliana Moonstone (Castle Rock, Colorado US) Age: 22 - Email


I admit I'm disturbed slightly, I do not agree with everything the Democrats and the current canidate Al Gore believe in, however they are much less likely to bring the radical christian right into power than Bush who has the full backing on the Christian Coalition. So far however, this board seems to be split right down the middle between those who want religious freedom/the freedom of choice, and those who want less government involvement in their lives. I admit the concept of less taxes is appealing but in the long run I'd rather have my freedom to be myself without hiding, I am openly Pagan and a local activist so if the hammer drops it is me and those like me (Wren and Frtiz for example) the ones that do not hide their beliefs that will be harmed first. If Paganism id determined by the Supreme Court to not be a religion and thus not awarded first amendment protection we can be openly presecuted, our tax exempt groups disbanded, even our expression limited in forums like this. Yes the republican platform will give us more freedom to bear arms (machine guns of the street again, joy) and more freedom to pay for our own health care, and more freedom to the big companies to pollute, but honestly I think they should be more important than the environment and the health of all people (especially children). I believe that under Gore we will no doubt be as we have been for the past eight years, economically stable, perhaps a little cleaner, and free to do and believe what we want under the protection of the law. The Pagan community has made great strides in visibility and acceptance in that time, and all that will be lost if we all go into hiding again, which we all would if things started getting ugly. Think of a world without communication with your fellow Pagans beyond your group, no large festivals, and no internet community, I don't want to live in that world again, but that is what I expect to happen in the Christian Right controls this country. Compasitive conservative or not it is Bush who has challenged the seperation of church and state repeatedly in Texas, and it is he who the Christian Right is actively (but very quietly) supporting (they know people don't like them and might avoid voting for their candidate so they are not pressing the issue). I believe Lieberman's religion will be an issue in the media because he is a minority, but if Gore/Lieberman focus on religion it will be to counter the attempts by Bush to corner the center of morality, Bush is trying to appear open-minded and Gore will try and appear above moral reproach, neither is true but I'd rather go with the open-minded liberal than the conservative Christian republican. I'm voting for Gore!

Love and Light


I Wish I Would Have Mentioned This In My 1st Post And... Aug 9th. at 7:41:33 am UTC

Holda Amber Busch (Shawnee, Oklahoma US) Age: 29


I wish I would have mentioned this in my 1st post and I know this does not have to do necessarily with the questions presented directly, but...Did anyone else listen to National Public Radio this morning 08/09/00? A piece was done on the antics of the Reform Party(s). The reform party started to get real serious back in the early 90's. It was starting to gain political momentum and had in the distant future threatened the so far "two party, " canidacy we have suffered from for so long. It seems to me that the Reform party fell victim to the same tactics as the school boards in regards to the Christian Coalition/Christian Right's drive to get their people into key positions. The covereage of the dilema this morning sounded chaotic, like an over heated city council meeting that was about to erupt in violence. The Pat Buchanan supporters claiming they are the "real" Reform party, while the other side which has worked all these years to finally make enough money to qualify for federal matching funds and a space on the ballot tried to hold their own meetings of the "real" Reform Party. A couple of months ago, I was at a garden and home show in OKC when a person approached me with a petition to get the reform party candidate onto the OK ballot. I almost signed it (without asking, because I knew who/what the reform party was, I thought) and at the last minute I asked who the candidate was. When this gentleman told me it was Pat Buchanan I laughed. I could not believe that a Christian Conservative of Buchanan's background made it into the party for one and had garnered enough support. How many people unwittingly signed petitions like that without asking or knowing for whom these petitions endorsed? Thinking, "It's the reform party, I hope they stick it to the Democrats and/or Republicans." I thought the reform was for political endeavors, not reform the country into a theocracy. I think that others who are trying to accomplish the same status with third party candidates and movements should beware of this tactic in the future. Never doubt for a moment that there are individuals who will wait patiently to take the credit and the benefits of all your hard work. I shudder to think what Buchanan will do with 12 million dollars. How will this fiasco further affect Voter Apathy? Watching Buchanan and his ditto heads lay this giant Cuckoo's egg in the reform party's nest has been the most depressing thing I have watched in a very long time.


I Would Love It If Raph Nader Won. But We Know It... Aug 9th. at 7:03:23 am UTC

Alex (Somewhere, Massachusetts US) Age: 16


I would love it if Raph Nader won. But we know it will not happen. So I am praying Al Gore wins. Because we all know Bush will not leave us alone. He has stated "I do not think Witchcraft is a religion" and many times said "There should be restrictions to freedom". Al Gore is not the best person but he is good. Also we are doing very well economicly do to the Bill and Gore years and Bush will mess it up.
Blessed Be.


I"m Only 17, But I've Been Raised Listening To Politics. My... Aug 9th. at 2:49:02 am UTC

Medea (Augusta, Georgia US) Age: 17 - Email


I"m only 17, but I've been raised listening to politics. My parents are republicans, but i lean WAY more towards being a democrate. I feel that if Bush is elected, he will all but demolish (and he might do that too) the first ammendment. I would prefer to have a different democratic runner, but Gore would do a world more good than Bush.


I Plan To Vote Republican In The Coming Elections. While I Do... Aug 8th. at 11:17:04 pm UTC

Tom O'Neill (Detroit, Michigan US) Age: 56 - Email


I plan to vote Republican in the coming elections. While I do not agree with everything espoused by the candidates, e.g. their views on abortion, I do believe that in general republicans will leave us alone, both as pagans and as ordinary citizens who do not wish the government involved in our lives.

Further, as an animal-rights activist, I was horrified by the number of fur coats flaunted at Clinton's inauguration. I saw none in '88, and very few if any before that. Also remember that it was Richard Nixon who banned poisoning on federal land and Jimmy Carter who restored it.

I know that I have said nothing of pagans, but to me a pagan is simply one who has both the desire to be left alone and the desire to prevent harm to innocents.


I Am Leaning Towards The Libertarian Party And Harry Brown. Yes, I... Aug 8th. at 10:44:06 pm UTC

Jason (Lancaster, California US) Age: 27 - Email


I am leaning towards the Libertarian Party and Harry Brown. Yes, I think political involvement is important. I am registered. If I don't vote for Harry Brown, I will be voting for Bush because I will be voting Anti-Gore.


Most People Would Call Me A Moderate, In This Election, My Vote... Aug 8th. at 10:05:18 pm UTC

Timothy m. Bagnell (Greensboro, North Carolina US) Age: 19 - Email


Most people would call me a moderate, in this election, my vote is caught between the lesser of two evils. Our concerns for religious equality, as best as i've been able to divine from the candidates public speaches, are not addressed hardly at all. However, given the increadibly blatent religious overtones that were adopted today by the Gore/Lieberman campaign, I am going to have to say Bush/Cheney. For us, as it has been for centuries since the last of the burning times and inquisitions, ignorance has been our shield. To most people today we are the stuff of legends, and halloween, and movies. While we should (and do) strive for religious tolerance, understanding and cooperation, the less we are brought up in main stream talk, especially politics, the less of a target we are.

I found it utterly astounding how much the media raised the alarm (pushed the panic button) on the "sudden increase of anti-semetic sentiment" today. MSNBC, CNN, and others were doing full exposes on the Klan and other White supremacist groups, all because Gore's running mate happens to be Jewish... Did I miss something or did Church and State suddenly re-merge.

The pagan community, world wide, is probably the LEAST organized, and thus least politically active and powerful. The Republican's somewhat (okay very) haughty attitudes about societry and minorities lend to our veil of secrecy and shadow. Until the isolated pocket sof pagan activism unite under some group that is stronger than something like the Witchvox here (no offense guys at TWV, you are doing a wonderful job, given the limitations you've impossed upon yourself for potitical commentary).

We are coming out in force, but we shall do it smart. The Pagan revival will have its time in the lime light. I just pray that that time comes after we have united under the banners of understanding, not just for relationships between the Pagan faiths and other more mainstream faiths other faiths, but for the myriad of faiths that make up the global pagan community.


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