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Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 6,003,793  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


My Name Is Staria Cannon Belle. The Mood Surrounding Me And My... Nov 10th. at 3:29:17 pm UTC

Staria Cannon Belle (Norman, Oklahoma US) Age: 28


My name is Staria Cannon Belle. The mood surrounding me and my friends has been
like the election: uncertain and tight. It is all up the Florida now, whatever
the outcome. I voted for Gore for several reasons: 1) his pro-choice stance. I am a long time feminist, and as the Goddess worshipper that I am, women's health and lives should not be dictated by older, white men in business suits who have
absolutely no idea what the women's experience is like. These right-wingers, in my opinion, believe that women who are comforable in expressing themselves and enjoying their sexuality are evil and should be harshly repremanded. It is my sober opinion that George W. is one of that "gang". 2) In an earlier statement concerning gays and Wiccans serving in the military, Gore stated that America was built with the purpose of promoting freedom of religion. When asked the same question, Bush made it abundantly clear of the distaste that he felt for the Pagan community, saying that he wouldn't allow Wiccan military to practice their religion. And finally, 3) I think Bush is all talk and his actions do not reflect his promises. Look how he treated Texas. Do we really need someone like that to run the country? Gore, in my opinion, is a man of substance, a lover of the environment and of freedom as a whole. If Florida says that Bush is the winner, I can see darker days ahead...



Unfortunately I Wasn't Able To Vote... In Pennsylvania, If You Don't Register... Nov 10th. at 3:28:44 pm UTC

Oaktree (Never Mind) Age: 30


Unfortunately I wasn't able to vote... In Pennsylvania, if you don't register before a certain date you have to "vote your party" and I pretty much refuse to pick a party because they all have problems in my opinion. But I can say that if I would have been able, I would have voted for Gore, due mainly to the fact that I am a Wiccan serving in the military. Bush has said that Wicca (witchcraft) is not a religion and doesn't belong in the Military. Well He is wrong, I have met many Wiccans in the military who have spent many years defending the right to choose their own religion. If Bush has his way we will not be able to have services on base, which does happen in quite a few places now. I'm also afraid that if he becomes president, he will exercise his power with Executive Orders to ban Wiccans and Pagans from the military all together. Unfortunately, he will have that power if he wins!!!

as for Florida...
Fix the ballots where nessecary and let all of Florida vote again. As far as I'm concerned, that was NOT a fair vote.


Merry Meet All, I'm From Palm Beach County, Florida, And I Have... Nov 10th. at 3:20:48 pm UTC

Theresa (Boynton Beach, Florida US) Age: 34


Merry Meet all,

I'm from Palm Beach County, Florida, and I have to admit, I did ask for another card to vote a second time, as I had accidently voted for Buchanan instead of Nader. There was no problem, they gave me a card and I inserted it right, and voted!

Buchanan has over 3000 votes in my county alone. Even he said that wasnt right and we need to vote over again. There are a lot of old folks here, and maybe in this case it would be a good idea.

I do not know anyone who wants Bush to win this election. Of course I dont assciate myself with materialist people or big-time gun owners either. (Not much use for a gun in FL).

If Bush wins, we are all in trouble, everything will take a step back in progress, Pagans, homosexuals, not to mention the rest of America becoming as polluted as Texas!! Bush only cares about $$$, and times are changing. I hope in 4 years people will be ready for Nader, a man who for 30 years has changed the US for the better in many ways like starting the clean-air-water act, and air bags for cars. He wants to stop commercial logging and abuse at the factory farms--he speaks with his soul, not like Bush who wants a vote-so will say whatever he thinks will get it.

If we get to vote again, I will have to vote for Gore this time--Bush cannot get into office!!!!!!!!!


Yes I Did Vote..i Voted For Bush And It Really Wasnt... Nov 10th. at 3:20:07 pm UTC

John (Richmond, Indiana US) Age: 22 - Email


Yes I did vote..I voted for Bush and it really wasnt for religious freedom reasond, we are garenteed that in our constitution which is being dissected to pieces right now...but the main reason I chose Bush to gore is from a sexual orientation stand point..IM gay, and one thing that really turned me off to gore was his involvement and support of www.godhatesfags.com Gore helped get this thing started and is even mentioned on the site. It is a sick site explaining how God hates gay people and they even go so far as to put a picture of the slain Matthew Shepard ingulfed in flames saying matthews message from Hell. No matter what one believes religiously, this is just something a group shouldnt do. It is an attack on an innocent person condeming them and I dont want my next president to support such an act. I feel that the mix up of voting is a wake up call from the Lord and Lady that Neither canidate is worthy of office..in 2004, maybe a pagan should run!


Both My Husband And I Voted After Deliberating Which Candidate Best Fit... Nov 10th. at 3:13:01 pm UTC

Anne Rutherford (Mechnicsville, Maryland US) Age: 53 - Email


Both my husband and I voted after deliberating which candidate best fit our views. Since Mr. Bush doesn't think my religion is real, he didn't get my vote. I doubt either candidate will concede for the good of the country, that hasn't happened since 1960. The only real remaining question is whether or not the "confusing" ballot in one district in Florida will be revoted. I seriously doubt that a re-vote will take place - there isn't a prescedent for it in law. That will mean that 19, 000 votes will be lost. At this point, whomever is declared the winner has no clear "mandate" from the people; will inherit a divided House and Senate; and will need to be a stateman and be able to envoke or provoke cooperation from both parties to pass any legislation. The people are saying that their don't completely trust either major party and prefer not to give either party a clear ability to pass their legislative agenda.

Both candidates claim the art of statemanship. I didn't see lots of examples of it at the end of the campaigns. Historically, those without Federal Government experience (i.e., house of senate membership) haven't been able to hammer out compromised deals well. They simply aren't up to speed on how it's doen (right or wrong) and the learning curve can be steep.

The results on the pagan community - will depend largely on whether or not a conservative religious minority in this country create the illusion of a "mandate" for prayer in schools, mingling of church and state issues. Again, however with a nearly evenly divided House and Senate, finding a 2/3's majority will be diffiult. The long range implications for this President will be the appointment of Supreme Court Justices. Since the selection process requires agreement between the two houses of the legislature, the best we can hope for will be a middlel-of-the-road candidate that may go either way.

What we may actually see, is government run by business interests, pretty much unfettered. If that's the case, you'll see more division on OSHA requirements, requests for less enforcement of ADA, tax relief for business, less stringent EPA enforcement, etc. I don't think it will mean much health care reform will take place, and other protective measures will suffer




Which Candidate Did You Vote For? --gore How Do You Feel About... Nov 10th. at 2:48:45 pm UTC

Oberon Zell-Ravenheart (Penngrove, California US) Age: 58 - Email


Which candidate did you vote for?
--Gore

How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida?
--This is the state where the Republican candidate's brother is governor. It is the state where all the ex-Cuban Mafia and CIA dudes ended up. The backroom politics in Florida is probably comprable to Las Vegas, Chicago, or New Orleans.

Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy?
--I think there should be a revote in the "butterfly ballot" counties, with a regular linear ballot, this time. This is what the people in those counties want, and I think we should support them in this.

How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other?

And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?
--If Bush wins, potentially the same result that the election of Adolf Hitler had on the Jewish communities...
--If Gore wins, having someone in the White House who at least understands who we really are, and has written a very insightful book essentially championing paractically everything we feel is important. A book which we will be able to quote from as we appeal to the White House on these issues.


How Do You Feel About The Political Wrangling Going On Right > Now... Nov 10th. at 2:38:57 pm UTC

Coyote (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 34 - Email


> How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right
> now in Florida?

It is troubling. While I would have prefered Gore to have won, I still find this horribly disappointing. Both of them are looking somewhat less than presidential as spokespeople for both sides wrangle back and forth.

> Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the
> country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream
> for mercy?

I would like to see this end with the recount (when it finally ends properly on the 17ths) and not go to litigation. Bush would be the president with a tainted presidency and a slim majority in the house. In four years, the democrats would be a strong position to take back the White House.

I doubt that will happen, as I find both men have larger than healthy egos and both are being pushed closer and closer to a position where they don't feel that they can't backdown.

> How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will
> be able to bring the country together given the inference that
> the election results now point to an America that is almost
> equally divided into one camp or the other?

I think it would be difficult. JFK was able to do with with his force of his charisma, even though he won a narrow victory over Nixon. Neither of the current candidates is a Jack Kennedy.

The next four years will be uglier and more partison than the
last.

> And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final
> results have on the Pagan communities?

If Bush is in charge, he has a lot of promises to keep to the right wing of his party. That can't be good for pagans or anyone that doesn't agree with their views of the world.


Yes, I Did Vote. It's Almost Been Bred Into Me To Vote... Nov 10th. at 2:28:22 pm UTC

Diana Rajchel Olsen (Mankato, Minnesota US) Age: 25 - Email


Yes, I did vote. It's almost been bred into me to vote -- I'm one of those rare Wiccan DAR members out there, and if civic duty had a deity, that would likely be one of my patrons! I did vote for Gore, not as a vote for GORE, but as a vote against Bush. Bush terrifies me. Anyone who goes so far as to change his driver's license number so people can't trace his records has far too much to hide, and his statement that the first amendment does not apply to witchcraft suggests that he doesn't have a good enough understanding of the Constitution to serve as President. That and the whole witch-hunt situation makes me very nervous, as I'd be a good target. I'm younger with less resources, public and an "up and comer". And our country tends to repeat the McCarthy paranoia.

The other thing that really disturbs me is the sheer number of votes that were thrown out or misapplied! 19, 000 voters had their ballots tossed out
on the assumption that if they hit two holes, they weren't smart enough to
vote. I don't believe that, no matter what party they voted for -- our country has a long history of interfering with voters rights' to control the outcome.
This is a classic example... I'm irate, and if Bush is elected, I'm moving
to Canada. That's it. I will not stay in a country run by that sociopath...


Yes, I Voted.... And I Voted For Gore. Not Out Of Any... Nov 10th. at 2:11:57 pm UTC

Seabhac (Concord, California US) Age: 28 - Email


Yes, I voted....

And I voted for Gore. Not out of any real sense of loyalty to the candidate or what he stands for, but for one very dear reason to me - religious acceptance. I reviewed what I could of Nader's information, and found *nothing* on his stance on religion. At least Gore (and his handlers) would probably not push religious conservatism (yes, I know he's a Southern Baptist, and Lieberman's Orthodox - both conservative). But as far as I can tell, the "Democrats" don't raise a hullabaloo about religion. If I had known for certain what Nader's stance was/is on the subject, I could have made my decision in better conscience. As it was, I said to my friends afterwards, "If I voted, why don't I feel good about it?" To me, I was choosing the lesser of two evils that actually would be elected.

As for the Florida question, we have laws in our country, and in that state, that supposedly cover sitations like this. No matter how absurd those laws are at this point in time, we should follow them. Then, as soon as the dust settles, we (meaning all of us who are disgusted with the system) need to get out and work as hard as we can to change the way our 'leader' is elected. Frankly, I don't believe we'll all revert to the Reagan/Bush era over then next few years, but everything that happens will ripple outwards, and affect all of us. This simply means that the Pagan community will need to be more active politically - as much as we might like to stay in the broom closet. Without being active, we might as well hang our besoms out to dry, close our eyes and pray to God and Goddess that everything works out.

If Shrub Jr. wins, it may prove a great motivator to those Pagans who consider themselves more liberal. If Gorebot wins, we may sigh in relief, and consider ourselves lucky until the next challenge to our beliefs comes along. In either case, it seems necessary to not freeze in fear, or relax our guard. Everything we believe in comes down to this point - Are we witches, with the power to change the world, or are we simply waiting for the world to change around us?


Who I Voted For Is No One's Business But My Own. I... Nov 10th. at 1:57:59 pm UTC

Tinnekke (South Bend, Indiana US) Age: 33 - Email


Who I voted for is no one's business but my own. I haven't even told my husband, though I'm sure he has a good idea. To me, this election has shown exactly how much the individual vote can count. That is the most important fact from this election as we're talking about a margin of victory either way that might up ending being a few hundred votes. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain about how the government gets run, and that's all there is to it. Let's all take some important lessons from what has happened, let the Florida people get on with their job, and realize no matter who wins, we have Congressional gridlock for the next two years, so not much is going to happen.


Yes I Did Vote, And Feel That The Recount Should Be Stoped... Nov 10th. at 1:55:49 pm UTC

David Griffin (Land O' Lakes, Florida US) Age: 40 - Email


Yes I did vote, and feel that the recount should be stoped and a new florida vote be taken (just in Florida) so much is riding on this State that we can't afford to let anything stand in the way of a Fair Election.


I Voted For Ralph Nader And Winona Laduke. Though I Appreciate Gore's... Nov 10th. at 1:46:18 pm UTC

Peg Aloi (Medford, Massachusetts US) Age: 37


I voted for Ralph Nader and Winona LaDuke.

Though I appreciate Gore's stance on many issues, especially the environment and reproductive rights, he is in favor of the death penalty and that is an important issue to me. I also find his reluctance to admit to his previous marijuana use, in light of his tendency to think marijuana possession should be punishable with jail time, to be very hypocritical.

I live in Massachusetts where Nader was a pretty "safe" vote, as Bush had little or no chance to carry this state (hello to whoever that is in Turners' Falls, BTW! I used to live out in that area and it is lovely).

I also felt a need to vote with my conscience and not out of fear, and I have certainly felt like a pariah among liberal Democrats who have accused Nader voters of being selfish and not in touch with reality.

To me, the reality is that there is very little difference between the two major parties and that a Third Party (or more!) is sorely needed which is not in the back pocket of big corporations. The influence of corporate America upon government has grown more insidious with each passing year and I feel it adversely affects the democratic system of voting we have in this country.

This election cost just about THREE BILLION DOLLARS. I think that is obscene.

That sort of money could feed starving children in America or elsewhere. It could buy sorely needed renovations and supplies for schoolchildren and teachers. It could clean up toxic waste dump sites that large corporations, though they have been sued for making these messes and legally ordered to make such repearations, have refused to do.

This money could purchase national nature preserves and protect them from development. It could assist the elderly in paying for their prescription medications which are outrageously expensive in this country (many seniors charter bus trips to Canada where they purchase their drugs for less than half what they cost here!)

This money could fund drug treatment programs for incarcerated non-violent drug offenders, who are crowding our prisons and not receiving the medical treatment they need for their addictions. It could assist the millions of people who do not currently have health insurance.

This money could be allocated for urban renewal in run-down neighborhoods where people live in squalor amid crime and ruined tenements. It could fund after-school programs for kids whose parents both work and can't be home after school.

and on and on...

But instead this obscene amount of money is used to fund campaigns for candidates who are nearly indistinguishable from each other.

Mr. Nader and Ms. LaDuke are not perfect, nor is The Green Party. But I was willing to risk four years of the evil Dubya in order to help effect change that may take some years to achieve. If we do not make a beginning, if we do not trust our instincts, if we continue to cast votes against candidates we hate insetad of for candidates we love, how on earth will we ever move forward?

The Earth needs us. As pagans we have a responsibility to make our worship of the Earth manifest every day: we are her protectors and stewards, and it falls to us to undo the damage and harm that has been done to her.

Ralph and Winona call her Mother Earth, as I do. That one detail speaks volumes to me. That is why I voted Green.


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