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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 15,924,974  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Like Everyone, I've Been A Wreck. Up One Day, Down The Next... Sep 16th. at 1:21:40 pm EDT

Secular Pagan (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) Age: 37 - Email


Like everyone, I've been a wreck. Up one day, down the next, agitated one hour, immobile the next, wondering if I'll ever be able to function normally again. Part of my suffering this past week has been self-inflicted, namely, fighting an irrational feeling that I shouldn't be as distraught and "wrecked" by this as I've been, because I wasn't out there in NYC or D.C., but half a continent away in a peaceful early-autumn day in Minneapolis. Nor did I know anyone personally who was
killed or, to my knowledge at this point, lost a loved one, though I heard stories from co-workers who had friends/relatives who had friends/relatives, etc.

Well, first of all, when anything this horrific happens, it's just not true that I or anyone else has "no right" to be traumatized by it. That's stupid; traumatization, by definition, is something beyond our control. We react the way we do, and reasons have nothing to do with it.

However...I did figure out, pinpoint, exactly what the "snapping point" was for me, why seeing the news for the first time had such an impact on me: For an awful, horrible moment, my gut reaction was, "This is it. The U.S. has been invaded. War has come to our soil. 'They' (whoever 'they' were) are moving in. What cities are next?" Etc. I thought those attacks were only the beginning of a day of destruction. I thought my homeland, my nation, was about to be destroyed.

I guess that's "reason" enough to be acting like a poster-child for PTSD. Especially since we can't be sure we're out of the woods yet as far as terrorist plans and infiltrations are concerned. Sigh.

Yet, too, this attack has also brought home, in a way that no amount of intellectual realization could, that there are people around the world for whom this kind of vulnerability is part of their daily lives. None of us is an island; no country has an invisible barrier rendering it immune to harm. Perhaps from this awakening we in the U.S. can come away with a new committment to seeing ourselves as part of the global community, not separate, not isolate, and certainly not invulnerable. We must come together in dialogue and peace, or we will surely be torn apart by retaliatory rhetoric and war.

Let us keep clear heads, even in the midst of grief, and remember that the true enemy is the spirit of violence and scapegoating that inspired the terror in the first place.

Blessings to all,

Secular Pagan

P.S. - I have created a memorial and peace page at http://www.geocities.com/secularpagan/ This includes a link to my Earth Tribute shrine, which was originally meant to be simply for expressions Earth-based spirituality, but has now become a place for people of all paths to express their hopes, fears, and sorrows regarding this tragedy. I invite all who wish to light a candle in remembrance and in hope.


Freedom Is Hard. It's Hard To Embrace The Right To Speak Of... Sep 16th. at 1:20:21 pm EDT

Wren Walker (Clearwater, Florida US) Age: 50


Freedom is hard. It's hard to embrace the right to speak of those things that you believe to be utterly right and at the same time embrace the rights of those who speak of things that you believe to be utterly wrong. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to believe so much in the power of your own religion or faith and at the same time recognize that other religions or beliefs can possess an equal and valid worth. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to watch a community that you care so deeply for tear itself apart over differences of opinion and still believe that it is often those very differences that help to make us stronger. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. In the name of freedom, the world has made peace and waged war. It is hard for those who want peace to hear the shouts of those who demand war. It is hard for those who believe that war is a just cause to hear the pleadings of those who want to give peace one more chance. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to love your country with your entire being and yet speak out when you believe that its governmental policies are wrong. It is hard for a government to hear the dissent of its own people and yet realize that if the country is indeed truly to be based upon freedom that this dissent must be heard. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to keep the door marked 'the right to individual religious expression' or 'the right to speak' or 'freedom of association' wide open even as those who often feel free to enter these doors themselves would shut them firmly in the face of everyone else. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to feel secure and safe without fences and barriers and checkpoints to keep others out, but freedom maintains that such appeals to safety and security too often become the very tools that are used by tyrants to hold their own people prisoner from within. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. It is hard to still value justice when justice is so often delayed. It is hard to continue to believe in liberty when so often others take advantage of that liberty in order to promote a personal agenda or to injure, berate or even destroy another. Yet freedom requires both justice and liberty somehow be preserved. Freedom is hard.

Freedom is hard. And in those days and months ahead, America and the entire world is going to see and experience and learn just how hard it really is to be free. Freedom will demand much of us. Freedom will challenge every deeply held conviction that we possess. Freedom will test our mettle, assault our dogmas, lay siege to our complicity and squelch our impatience. For freedom is never guaranteed as long as there are those who prefer domination, yet freedom itself cannot be imposed upon anyone and still be freedom. Freedom is hard.

But as hard as freedom is, there have always been those who have dreamed of it, written of it, sang of it, fought for it, lived for it and held it so dear that they were even willing to give up their lives for it.

And as hard as that is, as hard as it may become, as long as that same love for liberty continues to burn brightly within us, Freedom will never die.


My Name Is Mabon98 I Will Be Celebrating My Third Year As... Sep 16th. at 1:19:01 pm EDT

Mabon98 (Mandeville) Age: 46


My name is Mabon98 I will be celebrating my third year as solitary this Saturday... my thoughts on Sept 11.....I know that the Lord and Lady will not put this situation in front of us that we can NOT solve...but I know that the answer is WORLD PEACE...ALL religions have been praying this very point for years......we ALL as pagans believe that GOOD must overcome EVIL and prayer IS the answer...not violence, vengeance and especially NOT war...have we not learned anything from Viet Nam? Good overcomes evil when we as pagans come together and generate the positive energy needed to overcome this evil....it is not OUR duty to fight off these bad guys...but the GODS duty.....as we pray for positive enlightenment we can battle this ongoing evil!!! and preserve our World Peace....we are after all brothers and sisters in this very realm....we had been given reasoning to do either right or wrong...it is our duty to ALWAYS reflect RIGHT, GOOD, POSITIVE energy for ALL to benefit.....if some nut like Osama Bin Laden decided to do evil....it is up to the GODS to deal with him...but we must pray the correct energy to have this done.......why is it that our fellow animal friends and familars KNOW the right things to do...instinct....OUR instinct should be reflecting GOOD....................this is my opinion.......


What Do You Say? Everytime I Try To Gather My Thoughts I... Sep 16th. at 1:10:14 pm EDT

Bill Avery (Winnipeg, Manitoba CA) Age: 37


What do you say? Everytime I try to gather my thoughts I draw a complete blank. In a few short minutes I saw what is best and what is worst in people.

Like everyone else my life is continuosly changed by the world around me. I only hope that the lesson we are being taught by this is learned, so it won't ever be repeated.


Tuesday Afternoon I Pulled My American Flag Down From The Closet Shelf... Sep 16th. at 12:42:02 pm EDT

Hope Willowwind (Naperville, Illinois US) Age: 30 - Email


Tuesday afternoon I pulled my American flag down from the closet shelf. There it had sat for ten long years. Folded neatly into a proper triangle, it had been presented to me with great ceremony by my best friend at my father's wiccan memorial service. I hugged it to my chest and looked at my husband, "Help me find something to tie it with." Both military veterans ourselves he pulled out his combat boots and stripped them of their laces.

Out to the apartment balcony we went, and unfurled the precious memorial over the side of the rail. It's very long, as casket flags tend to be, it covers the window of the gentleman below us. He was happy to have his view obstructed by "Old Glory."

So there it waves, upon the side of a small apartment building, in the heart of the middle America. The symbol of our country, earned by the patriotic service of a gay Army veteran during the Vietnam War, held steady by the boot stings of a Pagan veteran of the US Army, freely given by a female US Naval veteran who served during Desert Storm.

All of us Pagan, each ones Patriotism undeniable. We serve and fight and die. We rush into places while others flee. Our hearts reach out to the masses with Hope and Love and Peace, not just now but always.


At First I Was Numb With Horror. For Over 24 Hours, I... Sep 16th. at 12:20:13 pm EDT

Kate Curtis (Norwalk) Age: 46 - Email


At first I was numb with horror. For over 24 hours, I believed my brother and niece to have been killed (since they worked close to the WTC). I'm sure you can imagine my relief when the word came at 11:00 Wednesday morning that they and their families, albeit being close to ground zero, were evacuated quickly and safely. I have been a psychological and psychic counselor for over 20 years and for the first time I found I couldn't counsel anyone! I am feeling much better and more clear now and can once again perform my skill. I am concerned that, while there are plenty of counseling services available for Christians, Jews and Muslims, the Pagan populations have been largely overlooked. If there is anyone near me (the Greater New York City area) or would like to communicate via e-mail who feels that they need to talk with a counselor who understands at least in part what a Pagan might be feeling right now or what they should do, please contact me. My phone number is 203-847-4883. Just ask for Breice (Breessy). The one thing I am counseling ALL people about is the desire for revenge or attack. Remember the Rule of Three. If you send negative energy out to anyone, it will come back to you TIMES THREE! No matter how justified you may feel you are, and no matter how much you want to see the people responsible for these acts punished, it is NOT your job nor your right. The Universe will sort this out. Please allow the powers that be who understand more about what really happened (trust me, we have not been given the whole nor correct story) to dispatch justice. Your goal right now should be to work toward LOVE and understanding of your fellow man/woman. In whatever way I may be of service in this dream, please let me know. Bright Blessings, Hope and LOVE!


I've Seen A Lot Of Postings From A Lot Of Pagans Who... Sep 16th. at 11:49:29 am EDT

Maeve (Laurel, Maryland US) Age: 36 - Email


I've seen a lot of postings from a lot of Pagans who say that the US shouldn't respond to this act of war that was perpetrated against the citizens of the world. A lot of people are saying that we shouldn't go to war. Well, we ARE at war. Not with any one nation, but with a hidden army of people who use religion as a mask for their hatred. If people want to spread white light, healing, etc. that's all well and good. But the fact remains that the blood of the innocent victims is calling out for a response. No, I am NOT advocating bombing anyone indiscriminately! That's a knee-jerk response that will only create more victims. Besides, the ones responsible are hiding like the cowards that they are, so we need to find them first.

When England was attacked during WWII, the Witches of that country banded together to protect their land. We need to do the same for ours. If you want to spread white light, have it focus like a laser beam on those murderers, so that we can find them and bring them to justice.

Also, remember the Pagans who are serving their country in the military, law enforcement, rescue services, and the intelligence community. They will need our help and support like never before, because they are on the front lines of this effort. Please send them your strength and energy, so that they may do what needs to be done without further casualties.

Blessed Be.


With Malice Towards None... With Charity For All; With Firmness In The... Sep 16th. at 11:42:17 am EDT

Steve McManus, aka Amorgen (Conway, New Hampshire US) Age: 41 - Email


"With malice towards none... with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan-- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves, and with all nations."

Abraham Lincoln, March 4, 1865


First Of All, I Want To Express My Sorrow For The Events... Sep 16th. at 10:54:02 am EDT

WrenFairy (Columbia, South Carolina US) Age: 25 - Email


First of all, I want to express my sorrow for the events that have occurred. I do not know anyone directly affected by this horrible tragedy, but I feel their pain nonetheless. That said, in reading the posts, the opinion seems almost unanimous against taking military action in retribution for Tuesday's attack. I have read everyone's reasons as to why we should not go to war, and they are very good reasons. I agree with most of them, if not all. And while I respect the opinion of everyone in this forum, a question remains unanswered. If war is not the answer, what is? No one seems to have offered an alternative solution. We can pray, we can light candles, we can perform rituals (I have done all three, myself.), but at the end of the day, the people who perpetuated this terrible crime are still walking around freely. I'm sorry--perhaps I'm not as "mature" as others out there, but I'm angry, I'm scared, and I want them to pay for what they did. No, I do not feel anger towards innocent Muslims or Middle Eastern people, and I also agree that if we decide to bomb Afghanistan it is likely that by the time we do, our true target may no longer be there. But I want terrorism wiped out, and while I do not personally have the solution, I welcome anyone who does to please share it.


I Am Sick Of The Press Broadcasting Military Troop Movements, Deployment Schedules... Sep 16th. at 10:50:46 am EDT

Stephanie (Midwest City, Oklahoma US) Age: 30 - Email


I am sick of the press broadcasting military troop movements, deployment schedules, the president and the vice president's location and routes. I am sick of watching the press broadcast the location of agents and teams in the middle of investigations live as if it were a reality television show. Like terrorists do not watch television? Everytime the press releases that kind of information under these kinds of circumstances, they place federal agents, military members and the executive Branch in imminent physical danger. If I were an active duty military member and I were to release that kind of information, I would loose my security clearance and then I would be discharged from active duty with other charges pending. I remember in Somalia, when the press lit up the beach and the U.S. Marines who were storming it, illuminating them for possible snipers. Everyone knows that these people place themselves in harms way, the press is insuring that harm will come to these military members and agents everytime they broadcase plans, locations and strategies. We have freedom of press with the understanding that it would be used responsibly, this is not the example of responsible press coverage.


A Few Years Ago, A War Was Raging In My Country. I... Sep 16th. at 10:32:06 am EDT

Petra (Zagreb, Croatia) Age: 30


A few years ago, a war was raging in my country. I know what it's like to be afraid, to watch and feel the pain, and still I don't think I can even imagine what America must be going through. Probably all of Croatian people was in front of TV's this week, watching CNN all day long, feeling as if we were attacked. And in a sense, we were, because every normal human being must feel this horrible act as an attack upon all humanity. I can't find the words to express my sadness, anger, and disbelief. I can only offer my deepest condolences to all of you who lost somebody.

I hope America can find the strenght not to start the war, despite the desire for revenge. I hope you can show the rest of the world what it means to be big, really big, as this little corner of the world percieves you. I hope and pray that you find the way for reaching justice without shedding more blood.

Blessed be,
Petra


I Look Out My Window To Where The Wtc Used To Stand... Sep 16th. at 10:21:20 am EDT

Oldcrow (NYC, New York US) Age: 31 - Email


I look out my window to where the WTC used to stand proudly as guardians to the Statue of Liberty and ambassadors of New York CityŐs Harbor. Some would say beacons that would welcome home the wary traveler and the daily reminder were the train home was. They weŐre alive in every sense of the word, they breathed, moved, and pulsed with every life-energy that inhabited them. Those building weŐre forged by human hand as a monument of what we can make from the body of our Great Mother.

I look out my window and see them gone, a pocket of empty space that use to glitter like two scepters in the night, completing the jewelry of lights. No longer the beacons of home but of travesty. Gone with them the breath of life that inhabited them and the breath of awe of their sheer existence. Replaced is numbing emptiness and a gasp of breathe and sighs of devastation. What human hands made human hands took away.

Am I to be angry, terrorized, confused, sadden, devastated, numb, hurt, fearful? Pick one or all and you would be right. I am struck to the very core of my being. Normally with a dirty joke up my sleeve and snicker on my face, I find nothing to laugh about and my facial expression empty. These types of horrors have been around since the dawn of time and will continue on til I am not here to witness them. This time terror has struck home, and took the very symbol of home to me.

Today I stand looking at once was and try to mimic what they symbolized to me because those I care for and those who I meet by chance need me to be. I donŐt know the answers nor to I profess to, but I have a shoulder to cry on, ears to listen and a heart to feel.

May Grandfather Sun warm you
May Grandmother Moon guild you in your darkness
May FatherSky stand guard over you
And May GreatMother Earth cradle you

Blessed Be,
Oldcrow


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