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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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110. What’s Your Favorite Element? - [119]

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99. What Moon Phase Are You In? - [70]

98. Would You Live In A Haunted House? - [166]

97. What Natural Objects Are On Your Altar? - [103]

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1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,396,342  

Vox Q Stats

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Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I Didn't Vote. I Live In The Netherlands (holland) And I Have... Nov 28th. at 5:18:30 am EST

Jessica (Rotterdam, Netherlands) Age: 19 - Email

I didn't vote. I live in the Netherlands (Holland) and I have not yet found out how to cast an absentee vote.
I don't know if this thread is really still running but I'd thought I'd mention this. It is an good example of how the rest of the world sees the election.
It is a advertisement for For Him Magazine. It shows two cut-outs of Bush and Gore both pissing on the white house lawn. Need I say more?

I Didn't Vote. Why? Because Upon Reflection Of All The Candidates Presented... Nov 26th. at 1:40:56 am EST

MissBanjo (Colorado Springs, Colorado US) Age: 30

I didn't vote. Why? Because upon reflection of all the candidates presented to us I got a cold lump in my stomach. It's just plain scary to me the candidates we've been given to choose from.

Did I Vote? You Bet. My Choice Was The Candidate Who Believes... Nov 24th. at 2:26:59 pm EST

Purple Dragon (Richardson, Texas US) Age: 31 - Email

Did I vote? You bet. My choice was the candidate who believes in small businesses thriving, and making America a land of opportunity.

My cadidate strives for making a smaller government (conservative views on government), that means - "Less government involvement in the personal lives of Americans".

My candidate wants to lower taxes for people.

My candidate wants the people to be able to control THEIR OWN retirement funds, instead of the government deciding "what is best for the people". Social Security is a losing program that needs to be fixed and revised.

Yes... I voted for Bush.

I would ask those who said "no" to Bush, and voted for Gore -solely because of what Bush said about "Witchcraft not being a religion" to realize - that they are ignoring the other factors and issues. 1 - This was an impromptu statement off the fly of the cuff. There are other more important (to me) issues that Bush has going for the people. Our Right to Ffreedom of Religion has already been granted to us ... several hundred years ago, in our constitution. I don't need Bush's "okay" for my religion.

Purple Dragon

I Voted For Gore Mainly Because I Did Not Want Bush To... Nov 23rd. at 1:05:17 pm EST

Raven (Athens, Ohio US) Age: 31

I voted for Gore mainly because I did not want Bush to win and I knew the other candidates never had a chance.

Bush is not only dangerous to the pagan community but to any person who believes in religion that he does not. Today he is speaking against Wiccans. I believe once in office he will fight to have our rights abolished. But what next? What if he wakes up tomorrow and decides he doesn't like Buddists, Muslims or anyone else for that matter? I think everyone should take notice of this matter. After all isn't it the Christians who believe a man will rise to power and proclaim unity for all and one world religion (Anti-Christ)?

I think all this political wrangling between the two candidates is amusing. Obviously neither one had a strong majority following. Which ever one "wins" will have some public butt kissing to do (if they dare wish for a second term).

As a pagan and a possible future member of the Air Force National Guard (if Bush loses) I am hopeful for a peace between the camps and that freedom and our first amendment rights will be upheld. I think we need to stand and be heard if this becomes a threat.

Okay, I Didn't Vote. But Here's Why. Because I'm Underage. But That... Nov 20th. at 10:49:47 pm EST

Rowan (Raleigh, North Carolina US) Age: 17

Okay, I didn't vote. But here's why. Because I'm underage. But that doesn't mean I don't have a brain...honest. But you all know that. Anyway. I'd just like to say that in the mock election in my civics class in high school I voted for Gore/Lieberman. On some things--Gore and Bush aren't that different, I agree. On other things? They differ GREATLY! Environment--drilling in Alaska or not? Religion--Recognizing Wicca? Now I'm sure that not many Pagans voted for Mr. Bush, so I don't need to diss him too badly here, but I would just like to say something about Mr. Nader. I don't know too much about the Green Party, or Ralph Nader, but what I do know is that at this point in the development in our nation, Nader is a non-vote. He may be the best for our country, though I don't believe it, but it all comes down to political philosophy--more liberal or more conservative, more freedom or less. I truly believe that the Democratic cause is closer to the Pagan cause than the Republican cause is. Maybe both suck, but liberal is better than conservative. If Nader's 2% had gone to Gore, perhaps we would have liberal Supreme Court Judges rather than the more likely conservative ones. Anyway, everyone's heard that before. Yes! Gore is a Christian, and Lieberman is Jewish, and I know many of us have justified and unjustified prejudices against these two groups. But it all comes down to the main two, because they have the real chances of winning, and do you want the man who recognizes Wicca or the man that does not? Conservative Supreme Court Justices are a bad thing for the Pagan community. We will endure, of course, but perhaps we won't get as far as we might have if some of those Nader votes went to Gore. Well, that's just my uneducated and disorganized appeal to logic.

Greetings~~! I Did Vote And I Feel Strongly That All Pagans Should... Nov 20th. at 5:22:15 pm EST

Tristan (West Palm Beach, Florida US) Age: 46 - Email


I did vote and I feel strongly that ALL Pagans should vote. My personal opinion is that Bush is very dangerous to the Pagan community with his strong ties to the christian Right. He has already said he does not consider Wicca a real religion and they should not have legal rights. He feels Wiccans religious rights should be removed!

As to the Non-Election: it is a great impetus for the American people to finally band together and demand that we remove the Electoral college and use strictly the popular vote. In the late 1700's when almost none of the population had any higher education and there was barely any media to speak of, most people had no knowledge of any of the political process or who was running and/or what they stood for. Due to that real "ignorance", the legislature enacted the Electoral college to ensure that the political process was not left in the hands of an ignorant population--and that was wise at the time!

Today, with the high level of education and media information--the masses are VERY well informed and we no longer need the Electoral college to protect us from ourselves~~~it has to be abolished!

I Voted For Nader & The Green Party. It Scares Me To Death... Nov 19th. at 4:46:44 pm EST

Ebha Ruadh (Sandston, Virginia US) Age: 36 - Email

I voted for Nader & the Green Party. It scares me to death to think of either of the other two in office. Our country is not really a democracy. It is run by two major parties(both of whom are controlled by extreme Christian views) who try to bully the smaller parties off the block. Whichever yahoo finally wins the presidency, we Pagans will find ourselves looking over our shoulder for the next persecuter. I would like to think that in my lifetime I will be able to practice my religion openly with my family, but, I fear that the mainstream Judeo/Christian religions will not let that happen. They will continue to back the political puppets, filling their empty little heads with satanic rubbish that unfortunately most people are all to happy to ignorantly believe. As always we have an up hill battle because most people don't want the truth they want comfort and we represent total chaos to their narrow world view.

Ebha Ruadh - Sandston, VA

Merry Meet ...i Wanted To Vote For Nader...i Didn,t I... Nov 19th. at 1:26:17 am EST

STANDINGBEAR (VENICE , Florida US) Age: 43 - Email


I Voted Green Party For The Last 2 Elections Because I Am... Nov 18th. at 10:10:13 pm EST

Renee Meyer (Yonkers , New York US) Age: 36 - Email

I voted Green Party for the last 2 elections because I am sick of the same old crap and also find living in a so called democracy controlled by only two corporate owned parties frightening. I think both candidates should be fighting to make sure those people, who now have to take legal action to have their vote recognized or who was denied access to the polls due to disinformation, are allowed to cast or recast their votes correctly. If they dont stand behind the rights of the citizens they plan to lead for the next 4yrs I dont think either can be an effective leader. For me there will always be an added distrust over and above the usual distrust people have for politicians. I wish more people would vote for parties other than Democrat or Republican just to send a message that we are watching and we are not happy. I cant stand when people say they are voting for the lesser of two evils, thats sad at the very least and sick thinking or lack of thought at the very worst. This is a democracy not a popularity contest and people should always use their vote as their what if your a registered Democrat if your not happy with them say so with your vote. Just look at how afraid of Ralph Nader both parties were to the point they actually tried to get him to drop out of the race, bar him access to media coverage, etc. Democracy is a fragile thing, take a look at Chile's or Haiti's recent history, so we should'nt ever get to comfortable about the stability of our own political system ...the JFK assasination is the perfect example (sorry to use it again) since to this day we dont really know weather or not it was a perfectly planned and executed (pardon the pun) Coup. As a minority community we all know "ignorance" is not "bliss" it is dangerous and apathy is a tragedy waiting to happen. The ignorance and/or apathy of otherwise decent citizens through out our worlds history has led to the deaths of millions when they ignored the warning signs that their leaders were getting out of control. Usually minority communities are the 1st to suffer but look out when they'er done there...who is next under the steam roller. We need to let Washington know we are paying attention by voting and writing our Reps...It -is- our political system, use it or lose it.

Hi, All!; I Noticed Twv Set 501c3 As The Reason They Do... Nov 17th. at 11:09:59 pm EST

Tarostar (Toronto, Ontario CA) Age: 58 - Email

Hi, All!;

I noticed TWV set 501c3 as the reason they do not endorse any particular candidate, as the IRS code requires.

However, have you noticed xtian televangelists do, however, suggest to their
"congregations" who would be acceptable in office?

Candidates go to churches to speak.

Yet, no-one sees the violation of that IRS code when it comes to them.

Pat Robertson and Fallwell & Co. get away with it because no challenges are ever taken to court in the form of complaints.

Those members of the public do not have tax-exempt status, so the idea just does not occur to anyone to complain about those who do who also politic.

Since churches (xtian ones) do politic, then why are they not forced to pay taxes? If they paid a large share, as their income would warrant, then they would have a right to campaign for a candidate.

They get a free ride in this respect, as no-one wants to be the grinch who forced the Govt. to enforce its own rules upon churches violating the IRS code.

So, if no complaints are lodged against xtian churches in violation, what makes you think the Govt. would beat up on a small Pagan group advocating a candidate?

I say a pox on all the churches and tax the shit out of them. BB Tarostar

The Eyes Of The World Are On Us... I Live In Broward... Nov 17th. at 7:04:21 pm EST

Eli (Fort Lauderdale, Florida US) Age: 18

THE EYES OF THE WORLD ARE ON US... I live in Broward County, Florida, one of the counties doing a manual recount. I checked my ballot over very carefully, making sure I had punched every correct hole and although I had never heard the word "chad" I did make sure there were no hanging tabs. Despite that, other factors can unnecessarily cause votes to be rejected, such as mishandling by the poll workers, or in some cases when people are given pencils to sign with instead of pens, two things clearly not their faults. If a manual recount gives us a better estimate of who won an election, then let's always do it everywhere, put enough people on it and we could manually count every ballot in days. I'm not saying totally negate the mechanical system, but use it to get more speed when an overwhelming victory makes the hand-counting process basically a formality, and call those areas and those races, but recount everywhere by hand regardless of who won or by how much, and only call those areas where the hand counts are exceptionally unlikely to turn the outcome. If this means we can't actually call some states for days, well, we had that problem anyways so problem did the mechanical system alone avoid in that? Do them both together, using the mechanical recount to determine the likelihood of the winner but the manual count as the final standard, and have unimpeachable standards for recounting the ballots. At the same time, let's get rid of all these different and confusing ballots and come up with a universal ballot setup that even an illiterate, blind, enderly, infirmed, or slightly retarded could understand and easily use. I suggest a system in which you place your votes on a touch screen and get to review and thrice confirm your votes before they go through. We also need I think special ballots, polling booths, maybe even whole special polling centers for the handicapped. Still other changes to our system will certainly be necessary, but as American citizens we need an unimpeachable election process, none of this "Oh, this is just the type of thing that happens in close elections" attitude. In Broward I voted for Al Gore, and in yet another race uncalled for similar reasons Elaine Bloom, but even if I had voted for George W. and Clay Shaw, I would still demand that every step be taken to ensure my vote be counted. On another issue, we can not tolerate these instances of black and elderly Jewish voter intimidation. For authorities, policeman and poll workers and others, to intimidate minorities because they know who they will vote for is quite clearly a capital offense. Let's get this done so that the world watching us will have no doubt that our Democray is sound.

Dear Fritz, I Was Intrigued By The Use Of The Word "hoopla... Nov 17th. at 4:19:43 pm EST

Jay Rufus (Tipperary, Ireland, Ireland) Age: 0 - Email

Dear Fritz, I was intrigued by the use of the word "hoopla" on your website to describe the goings-on regarding the Gush'n'Bore presidential elections in the U.S.of A. It looked as if you were using that word to indicate a sort of situation which in English-English would be referred to as a "(right old) hoo-ha".
I was very puzzled you used "hoopla", as in England this word actually refers ONLY to a game which is played at outdoor festivals and fairs and indoors in some 'pubs' (public houses or bars). Like my late friend Stewart Farrar, I am fascinated by philology (comparative & historical linguistics); so, like all good (aspiring) writers, I went to my dictionary to check the exact meanings. I thought you & my fellow Witchvox-surfers might find the definitions of interest, and they would maybe raise a smile during such serious times:-
1) "hoo-ha" - noun. of unknown origin, English, used to denote ' a noisy commotion or fuss'
2) "hoopla" - noun.a) British - a fairground game in which a player tries to throw a hoop over an object and so win it, or over a painted wooden figure of a man or woman to gain points, (STET!), b) American - U.S. slang for 'noise' or 'bustle', c) American - U.S. slang for 'nonsense' or ' ballyhoo' - see also "whoop-la" from the French interjection "houp-la!", said to a horse to make it go faster, as in English & American "giddy-up!"
( Jay's NOTE: For those with a deeper interest in this last point, go to the lyrics of a song from the 1940's or 1950's by French singer Maurice Chevalier. I think it was about a donkey !!)

As for your requested comments from us bewildered folk overseas to let Witchvox know what we think of the events in the U.S. elections - some of us are wondering why, if a Florida vote of just plus/minus 300 will always decide the successful candidate, why don't you all save yourselves millions of campaign dollars and hundreds of hours of boring TV time by simply confining the elections to Florida alone !!!!! But seriously, we in Europe find it appalling that the future safety of ourselves, our children, the environment and indeed the world can hinge on such an infinitesimally small UNVERIFIED margin in just one State out of millions (or billions?) of people in such a large country; and we are very alarmed at the rumours of possible skullduggery in what is supposed to be the world's greatest democracy (skullduggery = underhand dealing or trickery). >>>>>> best wishes from 'Jay' in Tipperary, Ireland.

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