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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,376,802  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Dear Friends,i Am Sure That We All Know About The Tragedy... Sep 15th. at 11:11:26 pm UTC

Wyldkat (Felton, California US) Age: 25 - Email

Dear Friends,

I am sure that we all know about the tragedy of the terrorist attack on Tuesday. I am a council member at a faith based website and we would like to try to have a national day of prayer and mourning. This will be an event that will surpass any and all religious and racial barriers. The hope is that we will all pull together despite our differences and raise as much positive energy, support, hope and love as possible. On Tuesday the 17th one week from the day of the attack please just take a couple of minutes out of your day. Light a candle and place it in your window and pray in whatever manner you feel is appropriate, be it going to church, meditating or just thinking about those who lost thier lives and thier survivors and those who will be involved in the aftermath. If possible also keep in mind the fact that we will pull together and we will recover from this atrocity. Pray for peace and recovery. Please let anyone who might care know about this.

Blessed be

I Am Stunned At The Events That Occurred On Tuesday, But I... Sep 15th. at 10:41:29 pm UTC

Rain BrownWolf (Sacramento, California US) Age: 53 - Email

I am stunned at the events that occurred on Tuesday, but I am not really susurprised. I am feeling even more spiritually marooned than ever before. I can't share my beliefs with anyone that I live around, and I am concerned about how the bombings are going to affect the financial world. I hate to be so sef-centered, but I am disabled and have just begun healing.

Not long ago I saw a program on 60 Minutes or one of those programs. They were showing how easey it would be for terrorists to get bombs or weopons on airplanes. I was disgusted and said to the screen, "Show criminals how to do this." There was absolutely nothing gained for the good by showing this program and may have aided the terrorist with their plan. I am, of course, disgusted with the way the media constantly exploits the pain and suffering of people under the guise of the people's right to know. I know of many things that people have a right to know, but are not given the facts by the media.

I will so any spells that I can to help, since that is all I can do right now. Thank you to witchvox for being here.

The Following Is A Poem That We Have Written To Mark The... Sep 15th. at 10:41:10 pm UTC

Witch Family Network (Portland, Oregon US) Age: 0 - Email

The following is a poem that we have written to mark the impact of the disaster, which has helped some people open up.

The Last Flight:

She wakes at dawns first light
it had been such a great night
Her daughter had not made a peep...
so for once she got some good sleep
Breakfast for two, she tied her daughter's shoe...
In the car they road, and she took quite a load...
Up the tower they went to her desk, it was quite a mess...
Today was the show her kid at play
the co-workers laughed and smiled...she was
quite the child.
What was that sound? They looked all around
But there was nothing was just air...
Earthquake they shouted, but she really doubted...
baby in her arm, she heard the alarm...and under the desk they flew...the last thing she heard...was her baby say "bird"...
and with that nothing more was heard.
Baby was flying...and everyone dying...the look on her face was confused...
when she looked where she was going...all she saw was the glowing...and the voice that whispered from the light told her to be not've come home on this day...and you'll always remember this...your last flight.

Brightest of Blessings and our thoughts are with everyone.

Witch Family Network

Don't Think I Can Even Begin To Express Adequately My Sympathies To... Sep 15th. at 10:26:06 pm UTC

Handel Callender (Bridgetown) Age: 25 - Email

don't think I can even begin to express adequately my sympathies to those of you who have lost friends and families in this wicked act. But even tho I am thousands of miles away, I share in your sadness. It was a horrific, cowardly act.
The healing may take a while, but America, and the World MUST heal. Because it is the only way to move on.
Something is happening here. On this Planet.

When I look at Planet Earth, at Gaia, I try to see humans as not just living on Her. We ARE Her. We are an extention of Her body. We are her Consciousness.
And when I see the destuction of Planet, I don't see it as anything separate from the desruction of ourselves. The tragedies of Africa, and Kosova, and Chechnya, and now of America; of the destuction of the forests and the air and the animals and the water, it is all on and the same.
The entire essence and being of Gaia, the human and non human, is suffering.

We witches I believe understand the with painful clarity. But I don;'t think we have been doing what we need to do.

This last event shows me something. It shows me that a healing is coming. Because from destruction, healing is ineveitable.
Witches ! Stand up !!!
We must begin to come from our circles and covens and take upon ourselves the responibility of ACTIVE healing.
Though this healing takes shape in many forms, I believe that one important area of healing has to be educating about compassion, caring and connectedness.
We are going to HAVE to get this message out there if healing is to begin!
We don't have to go around stating that we're witches, and spouting our religious beliefs, but we have to help start getting love and compassion back into the hearts of people. We have to start to share the Wisdom of our ancestors, of our brothers and sisters of the animal, tree and mineral worlds that we and ALL of humanity are an EXTENDED PIECE of this thing called Earth, and we ARE connected. And what we do to Earth, we do to us, and what we do to us, we do to Earth.

Reintegrate ourselves back with the EARTH. We gotta listen to Her harmony and Her wisdom. Only when we are harmonised with Her, do we follow the will of that deeper essence that is Her and Us and all things working together.
And share the lesson.

Hi Im Am 13 Years Old. I Had A Friend Whose Mom... Sep 15th. at 9:57:01 pm UTC

alex (san fransisco) Age: 13 - Email

hi im am 13 years old. i had a friend whose mom was on the plane
when that plane hit the 2 blindings.i was told that you were doing a nation
wide circle if you can e-mail about the info i no your busy it is

your friend ,


As I Read The Thoughts In This Forum, I Notice That There... Sep 15th. at 7:58:27 pm UTC

Heather H (Port Orchard, Washington US) Age: 30

As I read the thoughts in this forum, I notice that there seems to be alot of good hearted eople doing rituals at all times. This makes me think of the story that most historians and scholars continually deny: that during WWII the English witches did a country wide working to protect their country and confuse their enemies. Perhaps it is time for the modern Pagans and Wiccans to take a page from this story and make it true. Since we have a holiday (Mabon/Autumn Equinox) coming up anyway, why don't we use the energy that will be created to ask for help in healing this country, protection for the US, its allies and those helping with the clean up effort, confusion to the terrorists who did this and clairity in thought for our leaders. And those who take up this idea and are out of the broom closet, call up your local TV stations and newspapers and ask to have the ritual publicized, just as they have been for the churches, mosques, synogues and temples.

Having said that, my feelings on this have been rather against the norm. First, I have wondered if this attack isn't Karma's way of getting back at this country for ignoring the plight of the women, children and men of Afganistan. Also, I've thought about how now we know how most of the rest of this world feels. Terrorism goes on all over, everyday, it's just that Tuesday it happened in our country. And I don't agree with the declarations of war that are being thrown about. Yes, we can bomb the hell out of Afganistan, but bin laden won't be there. He would probably hole up in a country that supports the US and they'll have no idea he's even there. Unless we have someone on the inside, we will never get rid of him or his followers. War is pretty stupid at any time, but in this case, it is monumentally stupid.

And may I suggest a little reading material for those who are interested. Go to your library or bookstore and pick up a copy of Terry Pratchett's "Jingo" or "Interesting Times". Both books give a refreshing prespective on war and what it's really about.
BB and may cooler heads prevail.

There Are So Many Thouhts Going Through My Head Right Now About... Sep 15th. at 7:39:09 pm UTC

Angel (Coventry, Rhode Island US) Age: 22

There are so many thouhts going through my head right now about the terrible events on tuesday. Being a newbie, I wrestle with how my blossoming relationship with the Goddes fits with my past relationship with religion--I keep swinging from one to the other for comfort. My thought right now is one of being unable to breathe among all of these Jews, Christians and Muslims. This is not a hateful thought, but one of question: Where are WE? I watched part of the ritual at the National Cathedral, and it was extremely beautiful. I was bothered by the fact that, with all of the other religious faces speaking there, none were Pagan. I have seen nothing anywhere showing pagans getting together out in the open like the rest of society. I felt left out with my coworkers talking about going to church, mosque, and synogogue, gathering together with those who share their faith for mourning and comfort. I was going home. Alone. Where are all of you?

My Predominant Feeling Tonight (9/15) Is That It's Really Good To... Sep 15th. at 7:15:50 pm UTC

Cat (Asheville, North Carolina US) Age: 34

My predominant feeling tonight (9/15) is that it's really good to hear pagans talking. All week I kept checking in at the Voice, even though I knew it would take days to get any response up on the web. At work I've felt isolated. Every time I turn around it's "God bless" something (usually America), and I'm torn between knowing that it doesn't really matter what the divine is called, and knowing that a lot of people mean something very different from "my" god.

Also, I'm feeling politically alienated. Relatively few people agree with me that while this is horrible, it's not exactly illogical, nor exactly unprovoked by U.S. policy. In pursuit of economic profit, the U.S. supports governments not backed by the people; it enforces trade agreements which foster and widen inequities between the rich and poor; it backs governments which use terrorism against their own people. When it's someone else's proble--I mean, they get this stuff in Palestine all the time--we don't especially care, but when it's U.S. soil, we act like we'd never heard of such horror. Maybe we haven't; but all that means is that we haven't paid attention. I'm not having much luck convincing my students or my colleagues that this could be a wakeup call from which we could learn a lot.

Then there's all the rhetoric of violence, vengeance, punishment. But here too looking at causes might tell us something. The expressed goal of Osama Bin Laden, if indeed he's the culprit (heck, if he even exists--he's almost too convenient a scapegoat), is to get the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia, which we've occupied since the Gulf War a decade ago; he also feels the U.S. backed government is a puppet tyranny. While I don't know enough about Saudi Arabia to critique its government, I know a good deal about what the U.S. looks for in the governments it backs, which is mostly economic benefit. And can't you just imagine how the U.S. would feel if we'd had another war in Mexico a decade ago, the USSR had come in to "help", and then it had told us that it would keep troops in the U.S. indefinitely to help "defend" us? We'd go to war over it in a heartbeat. That's what Bin Laden has done, and everybody says he's crazy. He might well be, of course; but if we're going to talk about insane world leaders, we'd better be prepared for that rhetoric not to stop with our enemies.

Well, rant over. To "end where I begun", it's good to hear pagans talking, and even better to find out what I already suspected: that compared to most Christians of my acquaintance, the pagans are showing more temperance and more hope for a non-war solution. Glad to hear youall's "voices"; everybody, blessed be, and hang in. If our prayers are really as magical as we hope they are, maybe we'll see some results.

My Fellow Pagans:the Tradgic Events Which Happened On The 11th Of... Sep 15th. at 7:01:35 pm UTC

Joshua Nelson (Norfolk, Virginia US) Age: 22 - Email

My Fellow Pagans:

The tradgic events which happened on the 11th of September were just attacks on the United States and our fundamentals but also and attack on relgious freedom throughtout the civilized world as we know it. The people who committed these atrocities did so in the name of there god. A god who says that anyone who opposes him should be condemmed to death and his followers should carry out this work by killing on his command. These are the same principle used by the catholic church during the time of the witch hunts during the middle ages. These acts in our modern civilized world are not tolerated by anyone and should be justified for any reason. For those who think that this was an attack against a "corrupt impeialistic system" wich suppresses all of these different cultures throughout the world you are wrong in your thoughts and ideals. There is a big difference between the United States and those who comnmitted these cowardly acts. This is the only country in world in which all of us as individual people can do and say anything we chose including lashing out at the very system in which is designated to protect ud like so many do each day. Other countries in which these religious fanatics reside there is no such freedom. Infact in these other countries there are people just like you and me that themselves are yearning to be free but are scared of there own system and religion which oppresses them and condems people to death for thinking different. Is that truly a system to live under? not by my standards. People the United States does not govern this world to control other nations. For the past sixty years we have put the risk of many free american lives to liberate the oppressed of this world and to try and put and end to persecution and there is no other nation which has designated more time to solving world problems if you think its easy living in other nations than why don't you try living in Afghanistan or Russia over there witchcraft is not heard of. The fact is that fear is not a way to live. Fear of relgious persecution is what these attacks were all about and being who live in a free society we should all stand together as Americans and as decent human beings fight against the dark forces of this world who want to see us dissappear. And perhaps maybe one day we will all share this world together under the same principles of freedom but until then we should all stand together and fight oppression throughout this world and show that we are strong.

Sydney Hearth I Am Sure We All The Shared The Same Feelings... Sep 15th. at 6:16:24 pm UTC

Sydney Hearth (Prescott Valley, Arizona US) Age: 41

Sydney Hearth

I am sure we all the shared the same feelings on Tuesday morning...horror, disbelief, incomprehension, utter shock. How these feelings are expressed in the days that follow are more diversified however...angry statements of revenge, helpless tears, proactive actions, paralysis, or a combination of all of these. A very strong tool when faced with an enemy who haas acted against us is a retrospective look at all of our own actions toward this enemy. Have we invited hostility in any way? A look in the mirror , if you will, of any part we may have played in the perpetuation of "evil". Perhaps backing the Talumud in Afganistan to ward off the expansion of Russia was not a good idea as it strenghthened them tremendously. Perhaps backing Iraq in their war against Iran, out of no sense of frindship toward Iraq but hoping it would solve a bigger problem for us, may not have been a good idea. Perhaps ousting the Shaw of Iran in the "70's, not realizing who would take over was not the best idea. We as pagans(or Christians )would never conduct our personal lives in such a way. Why should international politics operate on a different value system than common decency?

We have all heard the cries of unhappy citizens in the past that government is corrupt, Bush, Clinton, Bush, are capitalists out only for personal gain. Is it any wonder that the third world sees our government the same way? Was this really such a surprise?

There are many forms of retaliation to annhialate an is never war as history has shown over and and over again if we only had the courage and maturity as a nation to look at it. War is a temporary solution. Perhaps it will stop Terrorism temporarily, though doubtful, but in the end it will build resentments and hatred and mistrust through oppression. It is simply bad bad Karma. It takes incredible courage to look at new ways of approaching problems, more courage than than we as a nation probably have, but actions first start as thoughts. then as people sharing their thoughts. Let our thoughts be not led by fueling rage but by the goddess we say we believe in.
And it do no harm.....

I Live In Norfolk, Virginia And So Am Constantly Surrounded By The... Sep 15th. at 6:07:39 pm UTC

Sylvan (Norfolk, Virginia US) Age: 43

I live in Norfolk, Virginia and so am constantly surrounded by the military. For the whole of my adult life most of my friends have been Navy personnel (though I have never served). My next door neighbor is Navy. My neighbor directly across the street is high ranking Navy. Not only are we the largest Naval base in the world but the Army, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard also have a large presence here. Every major event in the world impacts our community because our friends and neighbors put out to sea to meet the challenge. Now this. I kmow the need for retribution as many have stated. And from the words of our president I can see it coming. It is obvious here that the military is preparing for a major engagement. My whole point in posting here is to remind everyone that revenge will come at a dear price. Those lost in the attack may be only a small percentage of the ultimate loss. These too will be our friends, neighbors, and family. Pray not only for those already gone, but for those who may follow.

I Beheld This Vision Upon The Eve Of This Terrible Event. This... Sep 15th. at 5:44:09 pm UTC

Esulan De Kar`tajan (Oneonta, , New York US) Age: 20 - Email

I beheld this vision upon the eve of this terrible event. This part of that vision I share, there was more, and too personal for words, but served to comfort me, and to asuage my rage. Please contact me if you wish to use this in any way.
Esulan de Kar`tajan

The Four

And They rode through the streets
Four horsemen astride grand chargers
Silence fell as They passed
And the skies wept that They had come.
War came first, as was His right,
His mount eager and prancing
fire-eyed and proud
colored like steel, galloping

Famine followed War
with a gray swaddled bundle
held close to Her chest
Her rattle-boned mare's eyes
rolling whitely, as at a halting trot They sped.

Next came Pestilance
astride a scabbbed and spavined beast
both covered in running sores, and boils that swelled
cantering onward, daring not slow

Last yet also first,
at a slow and stately pace
atop a pale and ghostly stallion
came a Lady, borne of grace
and as She looked about Her
Her eyes were filled with tears
No, Mortal never doubt it
Death is a Lady, and She too feels

The Four rode on never slowing,
War, Famine, Pestilance, and Death
They passed down streets and claimed them
and the last sang sad lament

By ancient custom and enchantment
none saw Them as They flew
They paused but briefly before two towers
and the Lady wept anew.

The Lady reached out and She claimed them
those marked there by demise
and tears of compassion coursed palid cheeks
as She ended each agony filled life
and the shadows of Her sorrows clouded Her gentle eyes

She bowed Her head despairing
took she a child in Her arms
She looked to War in askance
"Why led Thou We four hither?"
Softly did She speak
no answer did return for Her appeal

She turned then unto Famine
and voiced She then Her rage
demanded, "Why, why could these be not claimed by eld?"
"is not the one Thou carrys thus, enough?"
"or must all mothers mourn as Thou brings children unto dust"
In Her anger turned She away
for Famine knew not what reply to make

Turned She finally to Pestilance and cried
"by Thine hand, how many more shall come to die?"
In self defense He made a plee
"But Lady" spake He, "Naught of this was done by I"
This to Her was far too much, it cut Her to the quick
"Ah" She could be heard retorting, "I know Thee all to well"
"Thou merely bides Thine time until more Thou can so fell"
"For Thou still rides with Us, I see"
"Do Thou then not attempt to hide Thine intent from Me."

Gently then, laid She the child down
Weeping, knelt She, there upon the ground
The others watched Her silently
With Their heads bowed oh so lowly

And then one spoke after some time had passed
"Come now dear Lady, away We must"
"sorrow no more for numbered mortal days"
"in the end this is the price that each living pays"

She heard the wisdom of those words
and heeded did She for She understood
that the burden must be borne
and that if She chose to not be cruel, but kind
Then the time had come again
when She must ride
though She weep until the end of time.
And She would weep always for mankind.

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