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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 5,997,075  

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Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Work For, What Is Considered An International Company,intel. Today We... Sep 15th. at 1:19:23 pm UTC

Syl (Rio Rancho, New Mexico US) Age: 39 - Email


I work for, what is considered an international company, Intel. Today we had a bomb threat. As it was on Tuesday, as I sat there in shock looking at what was going on in New York through the eyes of TV, I had the rush of all those emotions rush through me again. All the "could have, would have" talk is not going to do any good today. But as many people feel, I too feel rage, hurt, helplessness, and wish it was all a bad dream. I think of all those people everyday and will for the rest of my life here on our sweet mother earth, and shed tears, it seems on an hourly basis. Some may call me too emotional, but show me one who can indure such sadness and not shed tears and then I will stop!
We must all try not to put too much anger in our feelings. I hear so many people say what we should do, and how we should go in and drop bombs, but please remember we also must think of those that are not at fault in that country as well. We have the ability to make choices, lets make right ones. We have lost so many loved ones, lets not add someone elses loved ones in anger. We have to stand and support eachother and what our president is doing. Send him good energy and pray he makes the right choices. Send up energy to protect our troops, our country, our loved ones. Pray for all those who are personally touched by this attack, and give them love they so much need at this time.
If we do go to war, by all means we may need to help our troops and call on some help, or what I would call back up. We do have energy that we can call on at times of war, but please be careful to control it and use it wisely, especially those that are younge and are not experience in the powers we are able to call on.
Finally, I agree that we need to have a calling of energy and would like to do my part, and be as one. So if anyone has or knows of any spacific time and day, please let me know, I would be more than willing and proud to join you from my little spot on mother earth.

Love and Light to all,

Syl


This Is... Awful. The Question Is, Who Would Think That By A... Sep 15th. at 1:08:43 pm UTC

ShadowDaughter (Connersville, Indiana US) Age: 13


This is... awful. The question is, who would think that by a simple act of terrorism (I know, that sounds wrong), it would break America, and the people of it? What does not kill us, ultimately makes us stronger...

Blessed be..


My Sisters And Brothers:last Night I Went To A Performance Of... Sep 15th. at 12:21:57 pm UTC

Jack Cole (St. Louis, Missouri US) Age: 37 - Email


My Sisters and Brothers:

Last night I went to a performance of BLAST! at the Fox Theater in St. Louis. A Christian friend invited me to go, sensing that I'd had a really rough week, and I gratefully accepted. I work in the mental health field, and my company performs crisis debriefings for some of the survivors of the Tuesday incident, and I was thoroughly wiped from all of it. Sad stories, people completely lost and wandering - I couldn't help but cry with them sometimes. We all stood before the performance, and were asked to sing the Star Spangled Banner. So many people cried - the tears of Pagans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, it didn't matter who shed them. Despite the sadness we all carried all week, I had this overwhelming feeling of raw hope. I want to hold on to that, and pass it along when I can.

I had done my own simple works, being more hedgewitch than anything. The food I prepared, the act of cleaning my apartment, sitting at my altar and staring full bore into the beautiful Autumnal blue skies void of airplanes. When I felt like my reserves of energy were refilled by Them, I started to focus on the people helping the survivors. In my meditations, I kept things short and sweet - heal the injured, strengthen the aid workers, help heal the rift. I'll continue to do simple things to help as time goes on.

I was reminded how good I have it - my cousin who worked in the North Tower of the WTC was in Florida this week. My parents and family are all healthy. I have a job and food to eat. My partner, who works a block from the Sears Tower was safe. I kept myself from even the little complaints we all make about traffic, co-workers, etc. In perspective, those things are nothing.

My hope is that all of us can be the people we were on Tuesday for the rest of our lives. We were openhearted, caring, loving, giving. We called our Families to check in on them, we told people we loved them, we wanted to be helpful, we comforted those around us, and we were also comforted. Those are the things I want to keep with me. That will be the legacy for me of Tuesday's tragic events. I will be the man They know I'm capable of being.

All blessings and hope to you in this difficult time,

October (Jack Cole)


I Felt A Need To Post Here Again. I Have Been Reading... Sep 15th. at 12:14:48 pm UTC

Peg Aloi (Cambridge, Massachusetts US) Age: 37 - Email


I felt a need to post here again. I have been reading with a heavy heart many of the posts on this forum. The words which call for healing, and the words of anger. The words which speak of shock and loss and sadness, and the words which speak on vengeance, violence and retribution.

I am sadddened and angered by those pagans and witches who are expressing their fear and anger with calls to rush to war when the smoke is stil clearing and bodies still lie within heaps of rubble.

I feel strongly that this sort of attitude is what is going to lead us ever more
quickly down the path to World War Three.

Blind, ignorant, hatred.

Rushing to judgment.

The desire to punish when we do not even know who is at fault yet. Judging others based on our own stereotypes and misunderstanding of who they are.

Sound familiar?

This is the sort of attitude that is causing Americans to target other Americans right now: in the streets and neighborhoods of our nation, where we should be drawing together in grief and hope. Mosques shot at and burned; people assaulted and threatened. One woman was chased around a parking lot in a car. Fellow Americnas are neing detained, arrested, targeted because they appear suspicious due totheir skin color or mode of dress. Children are being kept home from school because their parents fear they will be harmed.

This is not helping the situation. Obviously.

I too was disturbed by the news footage of Palestinians cheering and celebrating. It disturbs me in the same way as watching my fellow Americans don white sheets and cheer when burning crosses on the lawns of black churches disturbs me. It disturbs me the same way seeing my fellow pagans express passionate cries for vengeance, while simultaneously invoking the Threefold Law, disturbs me.

My point is: every group of people, united by their location or ethnicity or culture, such that we can call them a "community, " has its ignorant members. Those people shown on the West Bank (and I cannot help but notice that we keep seeing the SAME footage of the SAME people again and again; which tells me that may well be a very isolated incident) were ignorant, and hateful. But they are not ALL Palestinians. I would guess some of their fellow countrymen are ashamed of such behavior, just as I have on occasion been ashamed of the behavior of my fellow Americans.

Surely we are all aware that New York is probably the most international of all our American cities? And that a great many of the people killed in this tragedy are Arab Americans, and Muslims, and people of Middle Eastern heritage? Their loved ones are grieving right now. They deserve our solidarity, not our suspicion.

Dropping bombs on a bunch of innocent civilians is not the answer to this enormous, complex problem. It will not stop terrorism. It will escalate the hatred against America that is felt across the globe.

We are in a position to act with calulation and fairness. We are in a position to learn, and to teach our children. In this case, the perpetrators of this act should be found, tried and EXECUTED. I am very much against the death penalty, so for me to say that is significant. I agree with those who have said
they'd like to strap the responsible parties to the front of jets and fly
them into their own capitol buildings. Seems fitting.

But I want to make sure the RIGHT people are punished. I do not want more innocent people, innocent women and children and families, blown up
and burned to death just because they are unfortunate enough, by the accident of their birth and the tyranny of poverty, to be living in a place they shouldn't be at the moment.

Wrong place, wrong time. Right place, right time. It is all a matter of perspective.

We do not live alone. We do not die alone.

"Each man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in
mankind...therefore, never send to know for whom the bell tolls. It
tolls for thee."

John Donne, Meditation 17

Blessed be in this time which tries us all,

Peg Aloi

(Albion Summerisle Morrison)


Dear Fellow Craftworkers,normally I Am A Nonviolent Person. I Try To... Sep 15th. at 12:12:07 pm UTC

Kenneth Sterns (Tucson, Arizona US) Age: 18 - Email


Dear fellow craftworkers,

Normally I am a nonviolent person. I try to channel my anger through meditation (or a long stream of cuss words). I tried to stay numb to the whole experience, to what was happening. It didn't really hit me until it was the middle of the night and I was watching msnbc. The senate/congress was singing America The Beautiful, and powerful imagery of the plane crash and wounded people disturbed me. I then finally started crying when I saw the long list of names of the people that were confirmed dead, scrolling by on the screen. I was really feeling strangled, and kept asking myself "WHEN WILL THE LIST END?! STOP SHOWING SO MANY!"
My sadness turned to anger by next morning, and I can't stop thinking about how much I want to see Terrorist/(Afghani too?) blood spilled on the ground. I still keep asking myself though if I should feel guilty for having these impulses, if im abandoning what I believe in if I want to see another country annihilated. Is it okay to think this way?


Reading Through The Most Recent Posts Here Have Become A Sort Of... Sep 15th. at 12:04:48 pm UTC

Pandora...again (Orlando, Florida US) Age: 16 - Email


Reading through the most recent posts here have become a sort of ritual throughout the day for me. And, I must say, I am not surprised at much of what I have read. While our nation is in a crisis and innocent blood has stained our land, I see so many pagans doing what the public thinks pagans do best...talk about themselves. Who cares that thousands of people had their lives cut short by evil terrorists? Bush read a sentence of a Christian psalm in his address! Forget the firefighters, policemen, and other normal folks who gave up their lives-and are still risking them-to help the victims of these attacks. No one has come out and said, "The pagan community is saddened by this." on CNN!

At times like this, I had hoped that the pagan community could stop purposely making themselves "different" and rally behind the other religious communities of the nation. Is it really that awful that our prayer vigils are not shown constantly on the news channel? Is it really a tragedy that Tom Brokaw has not interviewed distraught pagans? This is not the time to wage a PR-campaign on America-this is the time to help the victims and concentrate on keeping our country strong. Why must we only be pagans, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or anything else right now, and demand that people see us as such? Isn't just being American enough?


As I Was Driving To Run Some Errands On Tuesday Morning I... Sep 15th. at 11:55:39 am UTC

Galen (Riverside, Iowa US) Age: 33 - Email


As I was driving to run some errands on Tuesday morning I was listening to a local radio station as one of the personalities mentioned that one of the WTC towers was apparently hit by a small plane. At first I thought they were setting us all up for some kind of joke or prank, as radio stations sometimes do, but this seemed just too crazy to me. I ran to a convenience store for my morning soda and while driving further I heard that the second tower was hit my another plane. That's when it really hit me that this was a huge incident. As I drove home I listened in terror as the radio talked about the pentagon being hit by yet another plane, and tears filled my eyes as I sped home to turn on the TV. At this time the radio was simulcasting ABC TV's coverage. By now the first Tower crumbled to the ground! I ran up the stairs to my apartment and saw the remaining WTC tower burning and people running around in terror on the streets below. Peter Jennings was talking about people falling to their deaths from the 110 story tower as they jumped out the windows. I then witnessed on live television the second tower collapse! Words cannot express the horror and disbelief I felt as they replayed again and again the plane crashing into the tower. The images are burned into my brain forever. I know everyone in the country will be able to say where they were when the twin towers fell to the ground....just like almost 40 years ago people remember where they were, what they were doing when JFK was murdered.
My thoughts, prayers, and energies go out to the victims' families and friends. I am fortunate enough to not personally know anyone killed in this horrible tragedy on humanity, but that in no way lessens my sorrow. I am a bard by nature and by trade. A musician and poet, and sensitive to all the feelings people have, and I am in pain along with the rest of the world, and like the rest of the world I will go on. I will give blood today, and at my performance tonight I will ask the patrons to give blood, and mmonetary donations to the Red Cross, and encourage the people to help any way they can and to hold their heads high and be proud! I am so inspired by the rallying of the people across this country, America, to help those in need. This is the spirit that gave birth to this great nation! Let's keep it alive and strong!!!
Bright Blessings to all!!


Sometime In The Near Future All The Pagans & Wiccans On Witchvox And... Sep 15th. at 11:49:52 am UTC

monty joslyn (ionia, Michigan US) Age: 53 - Email


Sometime in the near future all the pagans & wiccans on witchvox and elsewhre in the world should plan a ritual for protection & healing on a certain day and time to focus all together at the same moment


I Happen To Agree With Pandora In The Fact That We Should... Sep 15th. at 11:36:20 am UTC

andrew blocher (highland springs, Virginia US) Age: 17 - Email


i happen to agree with pandora in the fact that We should "act" every pagan path has gods of war, revenge, and death hecate a well known witch goddess is also a goddess of black magic. are we not children of the earth. shouldn't we fight for our earth who has given us so much. i do believe in the three fold law but there are times when rules have to be put aside for a greater cause. i for one have no place to go if the terriost start boming around virginia closer to my town i am pretty much @#!*ed i'm to young to run off because my parents can call the police on me. and there is the wonderful wartime developments of nuclear and germ warfare. that will kill people and the earth this is the only planet we can live on in our solar system so lets stop this before it blows up in our face. our pagan ancesters used the war qualities of the gods in time of war and is this not war. i have done a few white witch things but like i said i'm not finished


Call For Words!!!!! For Disaster Relief-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below Is An Email I Sent... Sep 15th. at 11:06:11 am UTC

KC (Winchester, Massachusetts US) Age: 26 - Email


CALL FOR WORDS!!!!! FOR DISASTER RELIEF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is an email I sent to Kinkos after seeing Donna's story. Kamui and I have been writing and sharing poems and prose with each other this week as well. I have sent word to my father and sister asking for cover art and other contributions.

Please, please let me know if any of you would like to contribute, whether it's writing, art, advice, selling copies, etc.

> >===== Original Message From Kerrie Colantonio
>=====
>I have worked with the Copley Square Boston Kinkos in the past for my self-published book. Right now I would like to ask a special favor. I know several authors who I would like to contact regarding a special benefit publication of our writing to benefit the Disaster Relief from Tuesday's tragedy. I would like to ask you first, however, if you will donate services
>and the resulting publication free of charge. I would say I'd pay for it myself, but I could also donate that money and any other funds raised if this favor was granted. I don't have much myself, but can charge the equivalent of cost via credit card if desired. Please, I feel helpless here in Bosotn, with
>the fear that this was the starting point and may still be dngerous. I feel helpless that I cannot donate blood as I am underweight. I would like to do something meaningful to many. Can you be of any assistance in this matter?
>Please, I beg of you, let me know, as soon as possible how this can come to fruition. Thank you, and I hope you are all well and safe where this is received.
>
>Kerrie Colantonio
>Penny-A-Page Publishing
>
>
>>Kerrie,
>>In response to your e-mail, we invite you to come down to our branch and speak with Carolyn Francis, our manager at the branch. You, then, will need to explain in detail what your job entails. We would like to assist you in this difficult time, but we need to know the specifics of this project (e.g.
>>how many copies and how many pages.) We wish you well in your endeavor.
>
>Thank you,
>Callie Chapman Korn
>Kinkos, Copley


Last Night We Lit Candles, We Had Planned On It Before They... Sep 15th. at 11:03:50 am UTC

Greg Clemmer (Covington, Washington US) Age: 45 - Email


Last night we lit candles, we had planned on it before they asked for a national candle light vigil. We lit two on our front porch. We lit five at the points of the pentagram flower garden I am forming in our back yard. The candles on the front porch burned down around 10:00. The candles around the pentagram are still burning as I write this. I drummed at the pentagram for an hour before going to bed. I know my neighbors probably think me mad. It made both me and my wife feel better, after this horrible week. There is truly magick in the world.


My Pagan Kindred:this Whole Thing Has Thoroughly Shocked And Saddened Me... Sep 15th. at 10:48:52 am UTC

Sunfell (Little Rock, Arkansas US) Age: 40


My Pagan Kindred:

This whole thing has thoroughly shocked and saddened me, and words have failed me until now. Now that my mind is beginning to wrap itself around the magnitude of what happened, I have some thoughts and suggestions for the Pagan community at large.

Although it is true that America was attacked, this horror has global implications. Americans are now living in a different country, whether they understand it or not. We will never return to the freewheeling openness that was the USA on Monday. In a very unhappy way, we have joined the global community at large. I am a USAF veteran, and I have lived overseas, and have seen the aftermath of what terrorists can do: the destruction of the City of London from an IRA bomb; scars on my military colleagues from the 1981 Heidelberg car bomb at USAFE headquarters, the intense grief of losing military friends and colleagues in the Pan Am Lockerbie bombing. I have lived in places where it was strongly suggested that blending in was the best protection an American visitor could do so as not to become a target for terrorists. I have done this.

It is sad to see such wariness descending on what we considered a 'safe' place in the world. Bombs and terror were for 'other' countries- we could watch the whole thing on TV and then go to the movies and watch aliens blow up Manhattan. Not any more. These people lived among us, were 'sleepers' in the most terrifying sense, and were indistinguishable from any other immigrant or long term visitor. We must learn to combine an awareness of 'off' behavior with tolerance for difference. Most people will not be able to pull this off gracefully. We must be prepared for a restriction of our privacy and some of our freedoms. And we must be prepared to stoutly defend our own 'difference' from those who believe that only a religiously monolithic country will stand.

We are a magickal community, and have 'connections' to capabilities and understandings that the world at large does not have. I suggest that we cultivate our gifts- create and sustain an egregorical community that serves to protect one and all, Pagan and not, from the both the physical and the psychological terror that has come to our shores. An Egregore, for those of you new to the Craft and its Kin, is a magickal construct that serves to inform and protect a community. My suggestion is that we tap into the American Egregore, using the Eagle and the Star as its symbol, feed and strengthen it by ritual work and meditation, and build a metaphysical shield around not only America, but also the whole world. Those of us who create both art and ritual are encouraged to do so, and share with us their work.

Our more sensitive members should tune in and try to keep journals of what they feel is happening around the country and perhaps the world. We should ask our creative people to create a symbol of our shield- a solid white upright five-pointed star with an eagleŐs watchful eye in the center on a dark blue background, similar, perhaps to the Eye of Horus, but distinctively American. Those of us who have websites should post this symbol to demonstrate to all visitors that we are a nexus in the protective metaphysical network that is being actively nurtured. The Christians can pray, so can we, and more.

We must be careful not to succumb to infighting or religious bashing no matter where it comes from. Already, fingers have been pointed and we and other kindred have been named by certain religious leaders as the 'cause' of this tragedy, simply because we choose to interpret God and Country in a manner they disapprove of. We must be vigilant not to permit them to sweep us up and vilify us for our differences. The shield is as much for our protection as it is for this country and planet. We must stand together, or we will fall apart and truly achieve the goals of the terrorists who began this horror.

We must, in this order, work to weave a web of strength, peace, and healing, connecting first to God/dess, our families, friends, community, country and planet. We must never forget that we are greater than any evil done to us, and must make each act an affirmation of our humanity. We must not surrender to hysteria, rumor, hatred, or misinformation. We must become Warriors of Light, walking in strength in the footsteps of the Mighty Ones.

This terror has been a tragic test of our humanity and strength. My hope and prayer is that we will emerge from this darkness and this crucible better than we were, and pass this test of trouble and horror. We each must serve as anchors of Light, Life, and Love.

Sunfell
www.sunfell.com


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