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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,400,936  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

Following Is A Message And An Appeal To All Wiccans,everywhere.i Would... Sep 23rd. at 8:48:42 am EDT

Wiccanbaron (Minneapolis, Minnesota US) Age: 51 - Email

Following is a message and an appeal to all Wiccans, everywhere.I would appreciate it if could be distributed/submitted throughout the webring for other Wiccans to read and, if inspired, to pass along.

Everyone is aware of the tragic events of 9/11/01.Of utmost concern to me regarding this, is that blind fear and hate will escalate this into madness.I am concerned that the leaders of the world, in blind fury, will be tempted to use weapons of mass destruction to obtain their aims.I am also concerned that on the local level, innocent people of the same faith as the terrorists are being targeted for hate crimes.

I'm sure I don't need to remind Wiccans what fear and hatred towards a select group of humanity can result in! Look to our own history!Also, this kind of hatred will only fuel the fire that is already calling some terrorist sympathisers to call for a holy war.Read the world's history.If this should result, it can not be won.It was tried centuries ago, and the Christians lost!

I am calling for all Wiccans, everywhere to unite in an effort to let cooler heads prevail.Of course, I do not believe that the acts of 9/11/01 should go unpunished.However, we must at all costs, not allow the escalation to take us beyond the brink of madness.I challenge all Wiccans to do as our fore fathers did in England to prevent Hitler's invasion across the Channel.All of us have some abilities.Some more than others.Let us pool our resources, great and small, even if you are only moved to light a candle. We must raise the vibrational frequency to stem the escalation now! Not only for the sake of all humanity, but for the sake of our Mother, Gaia.


I Really Sorry About All That Happened On 11th Of September. I... Sep 23rd. at 5:40:37 am EDT

Victory (N. Novgorod) Age: 16 - Email

I really sorry about all that happened on 11th of September. I wish I could help victims and their families. I am in shock. I hope that those who did it with America and American people will be punished. All those who have suffered that terrible day will always be in my heart and in my prayers. God Bless America!

It Is Sad To Believe That Any Human Being(s) Could Do... Sep 23rd. at 4:23:54 am EDT

Jim (San Antonio, Texas US) Age: 29

It is sad to believe that any human being(s) could do this. It is sad to think that there are some in our world who believe their religion is right and in that religion they specifiy the attack on someone else "as right." This to me isn't religion, here I"m referring to the Islamic blend of religion those Terrorist adopted, but is mere brainwashing, hatemongering, and the religion of the devil. I think it is high time that our country take extra precaution to safeguard us, whether on planes, or in malls, security now seems to be the industry that needs money and effort dumped into...
Not the war industry.

As I Work Late Swing Shift, The Morning Of September 11th I... Sep 23rd. at 2:54:35 am EDT

Nighthawk (Cheney) Age: 26

As I work late swing shift, the morning of September 11th I was shocked awake by the shrilling of the telephone. My sister was calling telling me to turn on the TV, America is at war; the WTC and Pentagon have been attacked. At first I thought it was a joke- yeah right, sure... But the shock and fear in her voice woke me to the fact that something terrible was going on. Turning on the news, I sat numb for hours. Seeing the collapse of the WTC towers, I could almost feel the pain, fear, and sorrow within. The rest of the day I wandered about numbly. I felt a need to do "something" but was at a lost to what.

In the 11 days that have passed, my life has changed. As an Army Reservist, I am unsure to what my future holds. Will I be celebrating Samhain and Yule here in the US? Or will I be trying to celebrate them in the desert, at war? The hardest part for me now is not knowing. So, I plan for both eventualities- that I will be starting graduate school next week, or heading out for the middle east.

I am overwhelmed by the bloodshed brought about by people blinded by hatred and intolerance. And I fear the future blood that will soak into the ground in lands far away. As to whether I feel it is "right" and "just" to go to war with the Taliban and get bin Laden, my heart is torn two ways. I don't wish to see harm brought to those in Afghanistan who are innocents- and in war, civilian casualties always happen even if and when the militaries are being careful. But, on the other hand, we have almost 7, 000 dead and missing in the US. bin Laden and the Taliban are responsible. Do we not need to remove these people from power? Is that not justice? But, we cannot attack blindly. There needs to be a clear target and plan prior to any military action. Otherwise, we risk blindly killing, just as the terrorists have done to us. That is not justice. Blind hatred leads only to more hatred and violence.

Will I go if I am sent? Yes. Terrorism cannot be tolerated. But, I wonder what will be the cost in the end?

Heilsa,as Our Nation Prepares For War A Few Thoughts From A... Sep 22nd. at 9:56:37 pm EDT

Hadding (Olympia, Washington US) Age: 41


As our nation prepares for war a few thoughts from a from a pagan who is serving in the armed forces. We serve proudly and will perform all those nasty, brutish, tender and courageous tasks that our nation will call upon us to do. Remember that the thing that makes soldiers what we are is not the willingness to kill. It is the willingness to die for each other, our fellow citizens and our Constitution. I have been to war and have lead men in combat. There is no higher duty and honor than the trust that the nation put into my hands. It was truly a humbling experience. It is unfortunate that circumstances may put that duty in my hands again.

We have been attacked. As surely as at Ft Sumter, Pearl Harbor and in the waters of the North Atlantic. All Americans, like it or not, have a target painted onto our backs. Because of this the nation and our goddesses and gods are calling on us to do our duty. Duty is a heavy concept and not one we as Americans like. But as Wren says there is a cost to freedom. ALL of us need to help in beating this enemy. There is no place on Earth for the United States to the likes of bin laden and his ilk. They hate and fear us for who we are. We aren't perfect, but we admit it and work at it. I encourage you people to read the sites on the Taliban mentioned in an earlier post. The Taliban is not some poor group that is in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those who say we should get a high standard of proof remember this is not the first attack by the Bin Laden group, not the first American blood they have spilled and it won't be the last. But all Americans have a duty to perform. Yours may be to give blood on a regular basis, visit and comfort those we will leave behind, to design a perfect computer code to find and electronically take all our enemies money, to write poetry and for some- to join the armed forces. But whatever your duty is, perform it not only when it is easy, perform it when it is hard, bothersome or scary. The goddesses and gods ask for no more, and we should offer up no less.

Here is an unfortunate truth. We will kill "innocents". There is no way not to. I trust that our government and our allies will make reasonable attempts to keep that number low. But our enemy will not meet us on the field of battle like at Stamford Bridge, Agincourt, Bunker Hill or Gettysburg. They will hide among civilians hoping that we won't attack them because they are surrounded by civilians. We have to remove that option for them. I trust our government will use the appropriate tools to minimize the blood of those who aren't involved.

I don't know where and how this war will unfold. The Norns won't give me a peek at that cloth they are weaving. Nations rarely get what they hope for or to the place they want to be in a war. Our enemy is intelligent, ruthless, wants to win and will use our society's freedoms to achieve their goals. We must be smarter and just as ruthless. But we must be smarter. We must use the fruits of our society to isolate them. People should see our soldiers and bombers as the means to religious freedom, a better life and ultimatley peace. During WW 2 we dropped many tons of bombs on the French, Phillipinos and others. Some died, but those who survived knew we were doing so to free them from a greater evil than war. We should work with out allies to meet the same goals.

Some say that we lust for war. As a soldier I can tell you on Tyr's honor that we don't. We know who will pay the price, we know their children (our children). They aren't some faceless person in a uniform. They are George, Nancy, Jose, Kareem, ourselves. But we are professionals. We are that kid you went to school with, the mechanic at your garage, your childs teacher. Too often we are not the children of the rich, but we proudly serve at your bidding. Our elected leaders have chosen the path and we now pick up our spears, battle axes and dressings and move to the din of battle. Some, perhaps many will die, but we will do our duty.

I love this country. Not just for the Sonoran Desert, Alaska's mountains, our cities and our people. But for the fact we were founded on, and have strived for 225 years to reach an unreachable ideal. That I owe my life to only those I choose to offer it to. That I can worship my pantheon and everyone can choose their religion (or no religion). That my life is worth no less than or more than any other persons life. That I can be sitting here at the brink of war and hear the voices of all. We don't have to toe the governments line. Just think of the wonder of the First Admendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievences." We are almost alone in the world to allow people to protest the current government the very day and on the very route that it was sworn into office. Hell, we were smart enough to admit we blew it in the XVIIIth admendment and got rid of it with the XXIst admendment. THAT is what our enemies fear. They can't allow a society where there is no correct religion or opinion. Like I said, we have our problems, by the goddesses and gods we argue, fuss and some how fix our problems. Then when we fix we one problem we go out looking for another problem. (Sometimes we fix them slowly and once with a great deal of blood.)

I trust to the gods that one day we will return to peace. Then we can get back to what we do best, argue among ourselves. There are other fine countries in the world, and their people are just as special as ours. But I won't apologize to anyone for the fact that the Norns placed me here. Jerry Falwell is my kin (whether he likes it our not), so are those who will support me in the days ahead, and equally so for those who don't understand me or even will curse me. Freya and Tyr have long been on my altar, but I hope to see the days when Frey and Iduna may recieve blessings as well.

To all- Luck in battle and strong hopes for a just peace.

I Work In The Home Offince And National Processing Center Of A... Sep 22nd. at 9:49:43 pm EDT

Ginny Knight (Largo, Florida US) Age: 61 - Email

I work in the Home Offince and national processing center of a large multi-national brokerage firm (fortunately far from New York). Our immediate concern when we got the news on that Tuesday morning was for the hundreds of our COMPETITORS that were in those buildings. Yes, we felt the horrible loss of American lives, like everyone else, but we hadn't realized until then the tremendous kinship for the men and women whose very existance made us do our own jobs better. Because of the shut-down of the air courier services, very little work could reach us for several days. So we filled the time with fund-raisers, blood drives, covering our offices with American flags, and any other way we could find to send comfort and support, and our E-mails were mainly prayers. On Monday morning, I heard the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange with tears in my eyes. It may have been a small victory to some, but it was yet another proof of the indominatable American Spirit. Then an amazing number of us put our money where our mouths had been all week when we were telling our clients that to sell now would be letting them destroy our economy as well as our buildings, we placed our own BUY orders! We also have been told to specify which company we wanted when we called some of our offices in the area because they were sharing their offices with competitors who no longer have their own. This is just one of countless examples of Americans standing together in the face of adversity. When we do this WE CANNOT BE BEATEN!!!

Like you, I was unable to light my candle in all the wind and rain Friday night by my prayers and energy were with those who did.

Blessed be and keep praying for Peace

Like Countless Others, Mere Words Fail To Convey The Horror, The Sadness... Sep 22nd. at 5:43:06 pm EDT

Morglyn (Dunnville, Ontario CA) Age: 52

Like countless others, mere words fail to convey the horror, the sadness, the deep-down sickeness in the pit of my stomach feelings that I've had since September 11th.
Everyday, as I go to work and try to cope and function, knowing that life must go on, and struggle to convince myself that everything will be o.k., I am overwhelmed!
Thank the Lord and Lady for the strength I've been given to take each day one at a time. Pray for Mother Earth and all who inhabit Her. Thank you, Wren, for your essay on Freedom. I, too, am printing it so I can carry it with me as a reminder of what that word stands for. I need that reminder now, more than ever.
Stay strong, America! Know that our hearts and prayers are with you in this difficult time.

Hail To All My Witches, Wiccans, And Pagan Friends: I Am A... Sep 22nd. at 4:44:25 pm EDT

Gypsy Moon (North Bergen) Age: 37 - Email

Hail to all my Witches, Wiccans, and Pagan friends:

I am a Catholic/Solitaire Witch and I am proud to serve my country. I am also an American Red Cross Volunteer. This time had been very hard for all of us as well as to people from different religions, nationalities and races from all over the world. I had to put my job, husband, and children on the side to help out the victims from the WTC disaster. I had numerous calls from surviving victims as well as a large volume of calls from people who wants to volunteer for the disaster. I want to send out my thoughts and blessing to all of the firemen, police officers, EMS workers, police dogs and volunteers as well as to the victims who died and their families. As proud Americans, we have to comfort one another as well as to be strong and supportive. It makes me very proud that there has been numerous support from all over the world through different nations, companies, and people who donated money, blood, emergency supplies, food, and valuable time giving effort to help one another. It shows that when times are rough, WE WON'T FALL, AND WE WON'T FAIL AS AMERICANS!!!

THE MORE WE BOND WITH ONE ANOTHER, THE MORE STRENGTH AND THE MORE UNITED WE STAND. That is why this country is called "The United States of America". Let's prove to the world that we are united in strength and in spirit. God & Goddess bless all of you, us and God & Goddess bless America!

How Awesome....i Was Really Touched By The Post Submitted By Tamim... Sep 22nd. at 2:44:53 pm EDT

Nightgwath (Avoca, New York US) Age: 40 - Email

How awesome....I was really touched by the post submitted by Tamim Ansary a few days ago, and to my surprise when I opened my local newspaper this morning, there it print.Utterly KOOL....

Thank You Wren, For Your Essay "freedom Is Hard." I Have Printed... Sep 22nd. at 2:30:06 pm EDT

Edeva (Woodland, California US) Age: 36 - Email

Thank you Wren, for your essay "Freedom is Hard." I have printed it and am putting it on my refrigerator door and also carrying a copy in my binder so that I can have it with me in the days to come. I have had your website in my favorites list for a long time but I have never taken the time to thank you before. I am sorry that I haven't thanked you sooner for your wonderful site and am especially sorry that it took such a tragedy for me to do so. Brightest blessings on you and all of those who give their time and effort to keep pagans in touch with each other and the world.

Iam Writing This To Share It, Since It Has Been Bothering Me... Sep 22nd. at 2:29:06 pm EDT

Heidi the Smith (stump towne, Oregon US) Age: 36 - Email

Iam writing this to share it, since it has been bothering me since the 11th.

I shall now pay moe atention to my dreams.

On tuesday morning I turned on the radio. The mayor was talking about the airport being shut down. I thought maybe a plane had crashed, or there was some sort of traffic control problem. As I poured my coffee I only half listened to the radio. The phone rang.

It was my Mother.
"honey, do you remember the dream you had last week?"
"Well, go turn on CNN." She said.

I flipped on the tv, and there in glorious color was what I had dreamnt about the week before. New York in flames, the fireball, the rubble. People panicking. All of it.

My dream had been so vivid that I had called my mother the next morning, before anything else and told her about it. It had disturbed me that much. But I have never had precognitive dreams. I don't even pretend to be psychic. My best friend and I once went to a haunted house and She(pisces of course) had every spirit in the place walk up and say "Howdy!" but not me. Apparently Iam too thick to get through to..

But here was my dream, before my eyes. So I will share it with you, so I can heal my psyche.

In the dream I work in London. Iam and my assistant are designing sets, or something for a film, and we are interrupted by the phone ringing. It is my mother, she is upset, and sobbing. When I ask her what is wrong she says"Turn on the tv!! They've done it, the Arabs have blown up New York!!"

When I turn on the tv I see the towers exploding, and flames and rubble.
I tell my mother "Nostradamus predicted this, he said it would begin and end this way."
"I know Honey, I read his work too." she replied.
I watched the horror unfolding, and told my mother I would get home as soon as possible.
Then I awoke quickly covered in sweat. I was so scared by what I had seen that I got up and called my mother.
She was a sweet and told me to not worry about it, and quit watching so much news.
So I went on with my week, and then Sept. 11th arrived..

I share this with you all. Maybe others had similar dreams or premonitions, and I want you all to know that we are not crazy. That sometimes the Norns or Fates send us messages. Unfortunately we can't always know the meanings right away. I also now many will read this and be skeptical or pass judgement on me. All I ask is that folk keep an open mind, and not be so swift to judge and condemn me to the "kook" bin.

May the Gods keep you all well,

Heidi the Smith

Hail the Vanir!
Hail the Aesir!
Hail to Mokosh Mother Earth!
Hail to Svarog Greatest of Smiths!
Give us strength and courage
Peace and Plenty
Justice and wisdom.

I Am Borrowing Heavily From Some Points Made By Dr. Gloria Brame... Sep 22nd. at 2:14:40 pm EDT

Suzanne Morrigan Burns (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 37 - Email

I am borrowing heavily from some points made by Dr. Gloria Brame in a recent discussion in formulating this post. I am still shaking, and still at a loss for words. I want to make a few simple points, and she was much quicker on the draw than me, and found the links I list below. To wit:

I do not think it is possible to reason with the Taliban. I think truly it would be like negotiating with Hitler. I do not say this lightly. To those who are calling for peace and turning the other cheek, and who are condemning the United States for making military plans, do you know what the results were of the non-aggression pact that Hitler made with England and
Russia in 1939? Answer: WWII.

Not only does the Taliban have one of the worst human rights records in the world, and is known particularly for its torture and persecution of women, it has ZERO incentive to tell the US the truth about *anything*. They share Bin Laden's agenda of imposing extremist religious views on the rest of the world (including other Arab nations). They profit by his presence. They endorse
his beliefs.

To those who are questioning the US Military actions (which for the record hasn't even happened yet), please inform yourselves on the Taliban and Bin Laden. Visit these sites:

Resource Documents on Bin Laden (the Smoking Gun)

Who are the Taliban? (BBC)

I think US policy will make a lot more sense to you if you understand precisely the nature and agenda of these individuals.

Also, to the person who wrote the letter which Isaac Bonwits posted on his web site challenging the United States to send food and humanitarian aid to the Afghan people: it appears that the US has already been doing that. The amount of U.S. aide to Afghanistan in 2001 was $140, 000, 000. This was all humanitarian aide. I don't see any evidence that anyone is out to blame or target the Afghan people-- except maybe their own government which appears to be more than happy to throw them into the crossfire for the sake of their longed for Jihad.

Many people have urged the United States to proceed with caution and not act until they know who actually did this. This is wise advice, and I respect the heart from which it comes. Hasty decisions are not what we need now. However I find it strange that the same people are leaping to the conclusion that the United States is planning to bomb Afghanistan with the intention of harming civilians, and condemn the United States before the fact.

I think one reason the discussion of this tragedy has often gone awry is that the emotions and the language people have been using on both sides is so loaded ("Let's get 'em!" vs. "Hell no I won't go!")it has been hard to sort out our emotions from what is actually happening.

I continue to pray for wisdom and protection. I pray that we will take things a step at a time, and continue to be our best selves.


Suzanne Morrigan Burns

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