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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 8,143,149  

Vox Q Stats

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Reponses: 80

Lurker/Post Ratio: 409 to 1

Question of the Week: 84 - 11/10/2002

Between the Veils: What Did You See?

In the times of the thinning veils, did you look into the past or the future? What did you see?

What forms of divination do you use? Do you have an unusual technique that you would like to tell us about?

Have you had some (or all) of the things that you divined in the past come true? What is the most profound insight that you gained through divination? Do you think that the future is fixed or can it be changed?

 Reponses:   There are 80 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

What I Know Was There Was More Powerful Than . . . Nov 14th. at 6:54:34 pm UTC

Maeve Anadria (Riverside) Age: 23 - Email

I will have to say I am a little nervous posting, since the last 3 years in the pagan community there has been alot of rude people and nasty looks from other pagans. But oh well, I won't be successful as I am today without jumping out there and taking risks :)

Where I live it is full of woody enviroment and all my nieghbors are 'country' liven and pretty relaxed to what beliefs that I have so I am able to pray and worship the mother outdoors. There was a feeling of other there - like the past was mingling with the present. But it had that feeling of someone that was taken from America and slammed in Paris. They felt that they just didnt belong feeling. We had upset animals and other "odd" things. I swore I saw the last owner of my mother's house (whom we cared for in her last years) cooking in the kitchen.

After the celebrated holiday - I thought I saw this older woman walking down a really dangerous busy street with no side walks or anything like the such (Limonite Ave goes over the 15 freeway) who use to walk there all the time. My mother and I would see her while driving around and working, pick her up and take her home. After time, she never was there anymore. But I think I saw her again. I went to pull over and get of the car and start walking in the dark to her. She wasnt there. I thought I was going to cry - knowing that old woman might have passed away.

My lab dog whom I rescued some years ago - and passed away 1 year ago was barking in the yard at my mothers while I was staying the night there with my son. To make it funny I got up and yelled out the window "BUBBA IT IS OK!" before I got what I was doing.

Nothing I think out the normal for those that open their minds and know the world around them. But for sure a time to remember, those saying Hello again - or for the last time.

The Future Nov 14th. at 5:57:48 pm UTC

Robert (Harrisburg, Pa.) Age: 49 - Email

My divinations come in post-anxiety-attack dreams. It's a rough way to go, but worth it. I always see the future and have realised time and again that our future is absolutely NOT WRITTEN. As another poster-author said does give its warnings and we must heed them. Choices we make in present time determine our future and that is why the word CHOICE comes from another realm. It is one of those few words that inverted and held before a mirror still reads "choice". When I see the is not just my future, but yours as spins its variables like the proverbial wheel of fortune...with only our choices to determine where the wheel stops. It is the variables that I see..and it helps me make wise decisions. I am still alive and nuturing my earth and my brothers and sisters. I love you all. Peace be yours.

I Did Want To Say... Nov 14th. at 3:03:26 pm UTC

lilith (los angeles) Age: 33 - Email

i was a little bogged down in my last post on this thread, so i wanted to add something pertinent to the question.

i often dream things that will happen or have happened. i too can always tell the difference between that kind of dream and just a regular dream. there is something intensely particular about an actual divinatory dream. unfortunately, much like any form of divination, there is not always a clear cut message, or one that we can understand at the time.

to wit-- my last vivid vision was of a bloody baby sitting on the pillow in my bed next to me. i was looking at her thinking my god, is that real? because it was so intense and so physically real i could smell her and the blood, and she was looking straight at me.

now i had no idea what that dream/vision/visitation meant until last night, and even so im not entirely sure it was a message so much as a "heads up". but i do believe she showed up for a particular reason, and i am pretty sure last night had something to do with it. [incidentally, for anyone who cares, i didnt suddenly have a miscarraige or anything that obvious.]

even my tarot cards will at times babble on about something and i read them and they tell a fairly plain story only it seems to have absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING pertinent in my life, and then three months later something will happen and i will realize the cards foretold it, but i was not in the place where i could see what they were talking about.

all im trying to say by this, and its a little more personal than i usually like to make my posts, but what i am saying is, divination is a great thing, and i enjoy tarot and my dreams, even the distrurbing ones-- but it has limitations, often set by one's own mind or the circumstances of life. i dont believe all things are predestined, but i do believe in the fates, and sometimes we catch glimpses of things and are privileged to know and understand them, and other times we see something and dont understand it at all. so what i see between the veils is not always relevant in the true sense of the term, but i do like to peep anyhow.

Blessed New Year! Nov 14th. at 11:53:55 am UTC

Varda (CA) Age: 42 - Email

A deep journey beyond the Veil seems to work best for me as a pathworking--- what begins as a visualization of going to the Crone's Great Hall, the Isle of Apples, or the Summerlands, etc. I can come before Her and receive a message, and I've been fortunate some seasons to meet with a loved one who is in Her realm. My group often does a "dumb supper" (dumb as in not speaking, though we do anyway!) after our gather on Samhain, where we set a place at the table for those we love who have gone before, so that they might join us and feast.

For me, divination is more about serious self-reflection than predicting the future--- I see the future as being similar to a wheel, where we are always at the center, and have many paths or "spokes" to choose from. I think the center and the spokes available change with every choice made, so it seems like there is a limit to how much predicting we can do with our mortal mental limits! Maybe that image works for me because I am easily confused anyway! : >

I have to reply to Danielle also, as many have. I am a Gardnerian Witch, and I just need to say that her posting is virtually all nonsense. She has enough tidbits from the Tradition, though, to make me feel sorry for the folks who trained her, if any-- they must be so embarassed! Gardnerians deserve a lot of the teasing we've gotten about our love of secrecy and claims of being the ancient. true path--- most of that died out in the 70's, thank the Gods. (We certainly do believe and practice ethics, btw) The reality is, however, that there are as many paths to the Gods as there are Witches and Pagans, which is as it should be--- none of us want a "pope" or anything like it! My Tradition does work with a set of fairly consistent Rites and Practices, which work well for me, so I remain in the Tradition. For anyone, however, to claim that they have something "better" than anyone else puts them squarely in the evangelical christian mold, in my opinion. And that rigid path is certainly easier than one of self-transformation and development.

Events Both Major And Minor, As Well As Shared! Nov 14th. at 10:46:59 am UTC

Nothing (Columbia) Age: 23 - Email

Most of my 'divination' and forseeing comes to me in vivid dreams. I can tell the difference between these prophetic dreams and normal ones usually because the prophetic are INCREDIBLY vivid, not just realistic like many normal dreams, but seemingly tagged with a huge neon "I'M FOR REAL LOOK AT ME AND REMEMBER" sign. It's like remembering the future. Very odd. Through experience, I have learned to trust them. Every dream so tagged has come to pass. Sometimes in symbols and many times word for word, action for action....clothes, time of day, weather, conversations, everything happened precisely with the dream. Anyway, a co-worker and I both had dreams that in hindsight probably pertained to 9/11. It was disturbing. More recently, I have had visions of a wolf. It would present itself to me in a snowy wood and always looked the same and the vision would end with the wolf in the same pose, his stormy green eyes gazing though me. Then I met a man. His eyes were the exact same color as the wolfs. I chalked it up to coincidence. Then he showed me his journal where he wrote his most powerful and personal poems and thoughts. On the guessed it. A wolf, same color, same pose, in the same snowy wood looking right through me. I took the hint, and now he and I are getting married and I've never been happier. I have learned to trust the 'smacks upside the head' that whatever powers that be have been giving me lately. I was a biiiiig skeptic a few years ago. Now, I have no doubts.

The Illusions Of Fate Nov 14th. at 10:45:23 am UTC

Dustin Norton (Pensacola, FlA) Age: 17 - Email

In today's society it would be very easy to assume all things that happen to us are predetermined. This would allow us to make excuses for our actions and the reactions they c ause. It is also fun to imagine that it is fate that brings two lovers together. This particularly can be explained with an idea that states that with the Great Council a soul has a say so in who else will be in our next incarnation. So it could be thought that each of us have soul mates and it isnt nesassarily fate's good fortune that made us come across eachother. It is my belief that the future is always changing with each dedcision one makes it alters the path of their lives. Fate along with any idea in predestination exculdes a person from thier own life. If your life is on a track and there is nothing you can do to get off of it, because its just fate, then i say its not your life at all. I fell that each individual should lead thier own life. Find their own truth. And by there own path reach Nirvana.

Between The Veils Nov 13th. at 8:30:32 pm UTC

Sharon Allgeier (Joliet, Illinois) Age: 39 - Email

My visit between the veils was done via a guided meditation at a Samhain circle. I didn't actually cross this year, but my grandfather came out to me. He spoke a bit & went back, but as I watched him go, on the veil's other side I saw a shadowy figure of my grandmother who is currently in a nursing home. This tells me that I should prepare myself for her passing on to the next world soon. As for my method of divination, my chosen medium(pardon the pun) happens to be the Runes. I have a set of ceramic ones, one of water buffalo bones, and most precious are 2 sets a dear friend made me of chokecherry wood. One is the Norse runes, the other, Witches runes. The spread I use is one The Goddess gave me in a vision. It looks like the rune Hagal with an extra rune on the right side center of the H. The 3 on the left bottom to top are past to recent past, the 2 diagonaling from there are current situation, the 3 on the right, bottom to top again are course of action, the final one is the potential outcome. Feel free to try this spread and see if it works as well for you as for me. It's given wise counsel, and I say counsel because I ask the Runes for their advice most times, not to try and divine the future, though my spread could do that I suppose. Yule is coming next & I wish any and all that see this a Blessed one. Bright Blessings!

The Runic Foreseer Nov 13th. at 8:30:26 pm UTC

Amy (Georgia) Age: 17 - Email

I usually do my divining with the Viking runecards. From what I've read on them however m cards don't fit the usual predictions for that type of card. I catch things that are going to happen and have the occasional description of someone important but that is rare. My cards can also be very blunt and outspoken(?) in a way when I use them to anwser questions.
When I look sometimes I see the past and sometimes the future. It varies I guess with what is the most important, I guess. Automatic writing is another skill that I am in the process of perfecting. It was through that I had a very "profound" moment. Most of mine come true but this was almost unbelievable. I was sitting in my sociology class just doodling. I looked down at my paper and I had drawn a face of a woman. She had a black eye and under it were the words she needs help.
I know it sounds corny but that's what was there. It disturbed me enough that I showed it to my mother and she couldn't believe her eyes. Just that day she had gotten a call from my brother asking her to help a friend of his move away from her abusive boyfriend. The picture looked almost exactly like her. I'm no artist I'll be the first to admit that. That is why I was so shocked. It was the first time this had happened, but when it did it counts. I only have one wish though.
I wish I could draw that well anytime, not just when fate takes a notion!

Challenges That Create New Strength Nov 13th. at 1:55:44 pm UTC

Sistersea (Ferndale) Age: 40 - Email

I'm currently involved in a womans spirituality course which incourages divination and I have chosen to focus on Tarot for the time being. I have some clarvoiant talents as well. As I was asking about my future path this year past, I was getting readings of a great challenge ahead, but comfort in that it would bring about positive change and strength.

My father, with whom my relationship has been strained for some time, had a stroke this fall.
He was left with some fairly significant physical challenges which he is slowly overcoming. My readings helped me to look at this potentially tragic situation in a way which allowed me to put away the past issues my father and I had, and reach out to him. I brought him home for rehabilitation to help him heal and in a very profound way I healed myself as we came to terms with each other. Happily, my father is doing really well and I feel incredibly lucky to have had the chance to share this experience together. I will not continue to let issues with my loved ones remain unresolved, sometimes we don't get a second chance. I know now that I have deep reservoirs of strength that I did'nt realize were there. Life is good.

Through The Veil.... Nov 13th. at 1:11:46 pm UTC

Nova (NJ) Age: 25 - Email

I find that Tarot in general works well for me, but I have yet to "see" anything in the cards that has affected anyone other than myself. Does anyone here ever have visions of larger events, such as community and nationwide events? I always wondered about this.
As for Danielle's interesting link...I am confused. I'm not a witch, so maybe the whole thing just went right over my head, but was the writer of the essay (not sure if it was Danielle herself)suggesting that drug use and bestiality should be a part of REAL witchcraft?

Dreams Nov 13th. at 9:38:53 am UTC

Bluemoon (Scotia,NY) Age: 42 - Email

I do believe your fate is written out for you but only if you egnore lifes warnings. I've been a dreamer since about the age of 4. Through much study and meditation I've developed it into a very useful form of divination. Writting out your dreams and meditating on them will eventually give you your meaning. The most important thing to remember is to never let anyone else interpret for you. Dreams are ment only for you and only you will be able to understand what it means for you. Sometimes you won't get the meaning until afterwards but that only serves as a lesson to your interprtation ability. It will help you know what to look for next time. Practice makes perfect. If you egnore something that you feel strongly about for fear of ridicule it can be devistating. My favorite book for helping me with this gift is "Consciouse Dreaming" by Robert Moss.
LOL, Bluemoon

Definatly Tarot Cards, Divination Tool Of Choice Nov 13th. at 5:01:36 am UTC

Dimi (Anchorage, Alaska) Age: 15 - Email

i scry with water. as for past or future...i seem to find more predicitons than I do see the past. actually i rarely see the past, and i can't control what i scry for either so I wouldn't be able to just 'look'. I do really well with tarot cards though, I think I like them more because I can actually feel the cards and connect with them. with scrying i can't connect. I feel like I'm on the out side looking in (or maybe the inside looking out) either way I don't have any type of bond with my scrying bowl. I get my 'witch sense' from touch most of the time so that to adds to why I like the cards better, I can pick up more details. And my most profound insight would probably be insight into my self. I didn't have allot of self confidence in many of the things I did, but with divination I could record what I predicted and I could actually see how accurate I was. ok i'm not going to go off on here about a bunch of self discovery and all that (don't worry). but what do i think about the future and how it can be changed.....well if i was doing a reading and I found the end result...less-desirable I think I could change it. the challenge is knowing how. the cards give you a glimps to what CAN happen, not what WILL happen. it gives you a chance to look things over and correct your self if need be. like paths, it can show you if you take this path then this will happen. or it would not be good for you if you kept on doing what your doing.

And every one seems to be talking about dreams....well as for me on that subject I don't really listen to my dreams. they are so....complex. I mean I remember the whole dream and theres so much detail and so much sub-plot that I got tired of writing them down. if I think its significant then I will record it. some people say its a message from my sub conscience, *shrugs* maybe it is but I also think that my mind 'plays' with the message before it gets to me. as for premonishions. I hate those. i mean some times its like you call up the person, warn them, they don't believe you, it happens and they follow you around the rest of the week wide eyed and keep poking you asking you to do it again.....(try saying that 10 times ^^) I just think its a hassle to deal with.

and note to Danielle: I honestly don't think you know what you are talking about. its ok, there are alot of ignorant (or ignoramus depends on how you look at it, aye?) people on this planet. you shall blend in nicely. and second, that link was very....creative. and inventive i must say, put right under fiction. and taking quotes from is not the best either. yes i've read the whole site, and sure they have a few good points, but i think they were directed at the wrong people. they said we (Pagans) judge the Christians as a whole, and that they are all the same. well they just judged Wiccans as a whole and all the same. not to mention ranting half the time. yes ranting and scolding, not informing. also you practically calling others fakes (like you would honestly know) is insulting.

I'm sorry this was off topic. But stupidity annoys me. ending statement: people do things their own way, in their own style, and as differently as they like. get over it.

Brightest Blessings

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