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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,400,666  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

On Sunday Evening, Sept. 16th, 2001 6:00 Pm, There Will Be... Sep 14th. at 12:54:58 pm EDT

"The Worst Witch" (Salem, Massachusetts US) Age: 0 - Email

On Sunday evening, Sept. 16th, 2001 6:00 PM, there will be a Pagans' Projection for Peace, Candlelight Vigil and Circle of Healing Light in Salem. beginning at the Salem Witch Village @ 282 Derby Street, Salem, MA parading down Derby St. to Riley Plaza where we will Circle around the central flagpole where our nation's flag flies.

This event is hosted by P.R.A.N.C.E. (Pagan Resource and Network Council of Educators) and ALL organizations, community members, solitaries, covens, groves, individuals, children and adults - Witch and non-Witch -are all so very welcome to participate in this MUCH needed ritual of healing. Christians who are open-minded enough to work alongside Pagans are also welcomed to participate as are Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims who may peruse here.

Please bring candles (some will be provided but quantities are limited), American flags and $1.00 to be donated - ALL MONEY WILL BE DONATED IMMEDIATELY TO THE AMERICAN RED CROSS TO AID THEM IN THEIR EFFORTS IN NYC & WASHINGTON DC.

This event is to initiate the healing process in our hearts, within our families and communities, cities, our nation and the WORLD. To project for peace and an end to global terrorism, for the healing of people everywhere on Mother Earth who have been touched by this horrifying tragedy. Just to be together, one night, joining hands and hearts is statement enough in the universe to show that love can conquer any and all enemies on this planet.

Please see additional postings under massachusetts events and @

Join with us! Blessed be! God & Goddess Bless America! So Mote It Be!

Greetings To All,this Is A Time For Grieving And A Time... Sep 14th. at 12:52:25 pm EDT

Raymond J. Myers, II (Boston,, Massachusetts US) Age: 26 - Email

Greetings to all,

This is a time for grieving and a time for understanding. We must not allow hate to fill our hearts even though we may be looking for a way to relieve the pain of sadness. What happened on Tuesday was senseless and cruel. It served no purpose other than to take as many lives as possible. I, for one, can't understand how a person could feel this to be the answer to their woes. To take another's life is one of the most serious offenses against nature and the spirit of love possible. The Lord and the Lady do not smile on acts such as these, they grieve in pain and sorrow like the rest of us.

How do we make sense of this? How do we move forward with our lives as Pagans? How do we help those who have suffered and live with those who caused it? These are not easy questions to answer. We live as a magical people. We call upon energies and forces to aid us in our daily lives that most people deny exist. How do we wield such an ability with out directing our pain at another? It is something we must consider and attacking another is something we must not do.

It is a concern of mine, as a practicing and open Witch, that WE as Pagans are slowly becoming victims of the pain and anger, fear and hatred of other Americans. I was appalled to read about the message preached by Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson that accused liberals, gays, Pagans et. al. for the atrocities that occured on Tuesday. This sentiment made me sad. It saddened me because there are people willing to take a tragedy such as has occured and turn it into a platform by which to preach hatred. At this time of sorrow, we must turn to one another as brother and sister and greive for our people together not hate or blame one another.

I have to say, at this moment I fear for my friends and family, Pagan and non-Pagan alike. I have friends that have been turned away from services of prayer because they worship the God and Goddess. This should not be happening but it is. My one wish is for us to unite as a nation, as a people and work together to get through this tragedy. I am afraid, however, that we have much in the way of work to acheive this. This act of terrorism brought to the surface latent feelings of bigotry and prejudice that I fear will lead to many more such incidences of tragedy.

Let us not forget Nostradamus predicted this would happen and it would be followed by a war that would be greater than all others and this war would go on for many years. If this is to come, we must band together to comfort each other in the impending time of sorrow.

Let us as Pagans unite and send out love and hope into the Universe in order to precipitate that love and hope to all peoples of the world. Let us stop the hate and start the love.

In the Service of the Mother and Father....

Ravensong a.k.a. Raymond J. Myers, II

Att Air Revrund Oilwell Iz Rite. Em Sannd Nigurz Iz Uh Infeariur... Sep 14th. at 12:47:23 pm EDT

Gumby Imbread (Cayro, Illinois US) Age: 0 - Email

Att air Revrund Oilwell iz rite. Em sannd nigurz iz uh infeariur rase, end awlz em iz qweerz, end awl goode Amurricuns gots to hayts em end awl nonn-Crischuns. Wee iz goyng too kils air kidds end bomms em end maykes em suffur. Wee haz gots too pur-fie are nashun too. Wy, wee hazzunt hadd uh goode which burnun inn yurz, end att iz rong. Uncul Sam hazz uh bigg dik. Yoo haz gots too feind Jeezus orr yoo izzunt kno Amurricun. Att air iz thuh uppinyunn uv mie hole famly -- mee, mie bruthur Gummo, mie waif Sissy, mie Uncle Daddy, end my Antie Ma, two.

Yes, the above is a joke, and a bit of an exaggeration, but not too much, sad to say. I have seen literally hundreds of similar posts from "good Christian Americans" since the bombing. The part about killing Arab kids is from a real poster. So is the term "Sand Niggers"; I must have seen it about a hundred times since Tuesday. The thing about "Uncle Sam has a big dick" is also real. I think I have seen at least a dozen versions of it since the bombing.

The attack was a terrible thing and the perpetrators must be brought to justice. But it is very interesting how it is exposing the real nature of so many people in this country and abroad.

I Am As Shocked As Everyone By What Happened On Tuesday. So... Sep 14th. at 12:46:15 pm EDT

LadyHawk (Romney, West Virginia US) Age: 44 - Email

I am as shocked as everyone by what happened on Tuesday. So much destruction, pain and suffering. My heart goes out to the families who lost spouses, wives, children, parents, boyfriends, girlfriends, neighbors and co-workers.

And I ask myself how many more people have to die before that madness is over? By no means am I saying, that we should not go after the terrorist organization or organizations who committed this crime. But how many innocent people are we condemning to death and suffering in the process?

America changed forever when the Airplanes struck the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. Not only struck the terrorists in the hearts of the buildings, but in they struck fear in our hearts . Fear is something much more powerful then Airplanes, bombs and guns. Do we have to live the rest of our life in fear?

What can be done besides bombing the heck out of whatever city, town or house we are targeting? I am by no means an expert on Islam, but I have never heard that Islam sanctions terrorism. I believe if President Bush, his advisors and the United Nations can get the leaders of the Islamic Nations together and condemn these terrorists as “non believers”. Declared as “persona non grata” they would have no “home”, no spirituality to fall back on and would loose support over time. What would hurt the terrorists more? The lost of “face”, “respect”, “status” or their lives? They are happy to “sacrifice” themselves for the cause. We can’t really hurt them by killing them. With weapons alone we will not win this war. Only with the help of the Gods – whichever one you believe in – can we be successful. If these people fight in the “name of God” then by all means, let us fight back “in the name of God”, by denying them their “holy war”.

I Am Not A Writer And Have Never Been Able To Express... Sep 14th. at 12:37:31 pm EDT

Angela (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 37 - Email

I am not a writer and have never been able to express my feelings in words but when I read this article I realized that someone else out there had already expressed these feelings for me and I would like to share the article with you. If this has already been posted, then please forgive me for the duplication.

By Leonard Pitts Jr.
Syndicated columnist for "The Miami Herald"

They pay me to tease shades of meaning from social and cultural issues, to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul.
But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes,
the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be
addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward’s attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us?

What was it you hoped we would learn?

Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family,
A family rent by racial, cultural, political and class division, but a family nonetheless.

We’re frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae, a singer’s revealing dress, a ball team’s misfortune, a cartoon mouse.

We’re wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it.

And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people - you, perhaps - think that any or all of this makes us weak.
You’re mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

Yes, we’re in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We’re still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn’t a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn’t the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel.

Both in terms of the awful scope of its ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, indeed, the history of the world. You’ve bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there’s a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall.
This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me.

It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We’ll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.

You see, there is steel beneath this velvet. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don’t know us well. On this day, the family’s bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

Still, I keep wondering what it was you hoped to teach us. It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred.

If that’s the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don’t know my people. You don’t know what we’re about. You don’t know what you just started.

But you’re about to learn.

I Have Watch For The Last Few Days, Along With Everyone Else... Sep 14th. at 12:29:57 pm EDT

Sedna (Castalia, North Carolina US) Age: 36

I have watch for the last few days, along with everyone else and shudder at the horror of these acts agianst human life.
As I have joined in with the many vigils that have been ongoing, A friend of mine asked my why if I an not a christian, taking part in the prayers of christians.
My responce was that I am an American.
Goddess Bless us all.

I Am Sickened Just As Much As Everyone On This Forum About... Sep 14th. at 12:21:37 pm EDT

Ina Pillar (Oregon, Wisconsin US) Age: 47 - Email

I am sickened just as much as everyone on this forum about what happened this week in New York and Washington D.C.I read Wren's Nest about what the majority of our so called leaders in government have to say..........sad to say I am disgusted by their attittudes.Violence begets violence and this is not a time for more bloodshed.Take time to think before we retaliate, lest you regret later your actions.Scatha.

I Would Just Like To Share My Enegry With All Of Those... Sep 14th. at 12:03:55 pm EDT

Robert Mattei (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 27 - Email

I would just like to share my enegry with all of those who are affected by this horrible tragedy. I can feel the pain of this to my core. I try to transfer all of my strength and will to those who are desperately trying to save anyone who may still be trapped underneath 7 stories of rubble. Let us invoke the spirit of athena during this time of tragedy..... let us send as much strength as we can muster to those in Washington and in New York.

When this happened, my whole spirit hurt, cried, screamed, wept. I know many of you feel the same.... we will rise above this, we will prevail... You may break our towers, but you will never break our spirit.

By the way, any group (and you know who you are) who are blaming all non-christians for this attack, wake up, or shall we bring up the crusades?

Tonight at 7:00 I am standing outside with my goddess candle lit. I don't care if there are christians, islams, protestants, jews, atheists, people who worship Elvis, I don't care we are a united country... it's about time we showed it, and please don't take this out on all of the peace loving muslims who live among us. They feel just as bad if not worse than the rest of us. Imagine the hell all of us would go through if a pagan was responsible. They are not the perpitrators of this horrific act... they want revenge as much as the rest of us. Blessings and love to you all.

Blessed Be

From Another Message Board:an Open Letter To A Terrorist: (author Unknown... Sep 14th. at 11:57:15 am EDT

Suzanne (Bradford, Pennsylvania US) Age: 21

From another message board:
An open letter to a terrorist:

(author unknown)
Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missed America.
Why? Because of something you guys will never understand. America isn't about a building or two, not about financial centers, not about military centers, America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch of bodies.
America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace where you can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part, like you envisioned living, and pursue Happiness. (No guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!)
Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany: "If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien to Americans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. But you're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. But you're free to say one. Don't know where you got the strange idea that everyone has to agree with you.
There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country, looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even if they misuse it.
You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live in America, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. And killing a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we're crossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit.
Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time.
Sleep tight, if you can. We're coming.

I know this seems to advocate violence against the persons responsible, and even the countries they reside in. But I agree with Amy from Idaho. Terrorism needs to be stopped in whatever way is needed to make sure this doesn't happen again. Because terrorism is the new warfare. The Gulf War proved that to try and take the American Armed Forces on in a warhead-to-warhead battle is futile. Terrorism is the way to strike at us now. This has been escalating since before Oklahoma City. And if we do not wipe out this threat, it will continue to plague us.

Tonight I am participating in a candlelight vigil at 7:00. I don't care if we're christians or pagans, we're still all Americans.

Love and Blessed Be,

I Am Posting This For Any Feedback On How We As Witches... Sep 14th. at 11:55:56 am EDT

Zyyto (New Haven, Connecticut US) Age: 34 - Email

I am posting this for any feedback on how we as Witches can respond to this. Witchcraft is about doing. Well, our Goddess/God has given us the power to work magick. So let's work magick. Mabon swiftly approaches. A time between time, a short duration of energy in balance to be drawn upon and weilded if need be. Well, I think the need BE! Our ancestors would be using their wise ways to cause change. All Witches everywhere, do somethimg this Mabon. In a coven or solitary, whatever your tradition, raise enery, make a poppet, make a talisman, chant a spell....whatever you can do so that the perpetrators be bound and powerless, any others who are affiliated be found out and dealt with justly, swiftly and effortlessly, with harm to no innocents. We know what makes the universe run. We understand energy and how it connects everything in ALL the worlds. If you have ever done the simplest spell, you know a little power can go a long way. Imagine what all of us can do. Just a suggestion, wold love other ideas. I will be directing my energy next Saturday toward the binding and mobilization of any involved in these horrific acts. I hope others will join.

Dear Ones, Today You Morn For The Family Members Who Havemade... Sep 14th. at 11:55:09 am EDT

Mary (New York, New York US) Age: 40

Dear ones, today you morn for the family members who have made their transitions and who are still in the process. For many of you, the question is this: "why didn't we know?" or "shouldn't Spirit have told us of these things?"

We want you to all know that the words we gave you some time ago are now here: "There is no Human or Spirit who can tell you what is going to happen tomorrow, " we said. This is part of the new dimensionality...that all happens outside a linear time frame, and that Humanity is totally in charge.

What you saw today is the result of what we saw and reported to you as the potentials for 2000 and beyond. We told you that you would see spiritual rage, and that there would be forces who would not let go of the old paradigm - the way the world "used to work." Now you, in your country of America are also involved in actually feeling what this means. The battle begins in earnest, and now you know why you are called "warriors" of the light.

With the millennium change came new responsibility. Part of that revolves around this question: What will you do now? Can you lift yourselves above the anger? Can you see anything more in this than rage? Are you going to join or separate? The chasm opens and the choices become harder...such is the beginning of new wisdom for the planet.

The family who transited in this event, on this eleven day, agreed to be part of this Human horror potential... something that could have changed yesterday if Humanity had so decided. You agreed to go forward, however, and the result will make you part of the world family more than ever before. Perhaps this will bring you all closer to agreement? Perhaps this will eventually make you decide world events differently? Perhaps more will go to their knees? Perhaps more will understand the "world family?"

If so, then the Humans who came home today will have a grander party than they expected, for it will have advanced planetary healing. All is in divine order, and all is appropriate, even though such statements are not understandable while you are in sorrow. Can you find peace within your heart now, even for those who perpetrated the events? Can you think interdimensionally? These are the spiritual questions which will separate those who talk about spiritual growth, from those who actually understand and practice it.

Blessed are those family who remain, for they are feeling the pain and suffering of incredible loss. For now, send your energy and your love to them. Remember: The thoughts of the few can change the reality of the many. Hug them from afar. Bring them into your rooms and weep for them, for they need your help.

Then, when enough time has passed.... bring about wise decisions from a new resource of Humans who can now tap into the masters, the ones who are bringing their energy potential to the planet.

A call to action has been sounded in a land that was happy to just exist and watch the others work it out. Now you are all involved in the same challenges. The result? Human free choice will decide all, just as it always has. Only now, there is a profound urgency that was not there before.

You are not alone in this, and legions stand with you to bring about solution to what you all know is now very real.... the old vs. the new.

Love is infinitely more powerful, dear ones. Use it today!

We are with you in your sorrow, and the potential profound wisdom that can arise from it.

You are dearly loved!

I Have Just Spent The Last 3 Days Trying To Understand. My... Sep 14th. at 11:33:15 am EDT

Lee (las vegas, Nevada US) Age: 32

i have just spent the last 3 days trying to understand. my mind is having a very difficult time wrapping itself around this horror. i started to study the Craft only 6 months ago. i was raised catholic and could not, would not accept a vengeful god; today i fight my beliefs that i still can/will not accept that type of god. however i find myself wanting to punish those that did this. i have looked at the empty blue sky and a quite night sky trying to release this anger, this almost overwhelming desire to smash, throw, crush and destroy something, anything. so i will light my candles, say my prayers, wash my soul and body each and everytime i feel like i am loosing this battle to be peaceful and loving. please all of you send me your energy and love to win this battle for my soul, but before you wish for mine....join me in sending mine to those who have lost so much in these horrible days. blessed be.


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