The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Nov. 17, 2002
||This Page Viewed: 7,042,121
Vox Q Stats|
Times Viewed: 32,767
Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1
Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001
911 America: Talking Through The Terror...
Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.
What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.
WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.
| Reponses: There are 969 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| I Thought The Speech That President Bush Made Was A Bit Ironic... ||Sep 14th. at 11:14:57 am UTC|
|Fae (San Diego, California US) ||Age: 15 - Email |
I thought the speech that President Bush made was a bit ironic. I just sat there in front of the TV and thought about how well it would go if that speech were twisted to be directed towards the subject of the Burning Times and the Inquisition and all that. My mind did it all, and it goes perfectly well, I admit. Just a random thought...
| Don't Judge Our Leaders To Harshly - The Only Way To End Terrorism... ||Sep 14th. at 11:01:53 am UTC|
|Amy - wife and mom of 2 (Idaho Falls, Idaho US) ||Age: 22 - Email |
Don't judge our leaders to harshly - the only way to end terrorism is to kill it, and unfortunately, innocent people will die....those that can't help it that their counrty chooses to harbor terrorists. Its horrible, but the only way to get rid of terrorism is to get rid of the terrorist. Peace on earth won't happen until a bloody long war is fought and many innocent people die.
REMEMBER - to those of you who believe in reincarnation, that death isn't final and our loved ones aren't condemed to an eternity of immortality...(and yes I have lost loved ones before)
As a pagan community we HAVE TO focus on praying that the war is short and effective, we have to support it, because we, as Americans need to stand by our leaders (since we can't change their minds). Some of you might not agree with this, think I'm nuts, but these people have to be stopped and taking a passive view on the matter, one of no violence, won't help.
I have family in the military, and I'm scared to death that they will get called to war...but I know, as does my whole family and most of the world that if we don't take action, that sets the stage. That tells the terrorists that we will sit back and let our own people die.
War is needed in the situation. The president (and no I didn't vote for Bush) did not take his desicion to declare war lightly...he spoke with his advisors and military personnel and arrived that war is the only option to keep the world safe in the end.
Death in a bi-product of life
Some of us will die wishing there was a better way and some of us will die making a better way - but in the end it will be better...and we'll still all be dead
I do not wish to see any replies to this, I'm sure it offended a few people, so please if you must email me...don't congest this message baord with Flames to my post.
| It's Amazing That The Other So Called Main Stream Religions (christians, Jews... ||Sep 14th. at 11:01:12 am UTC|
|Red Raven (Baltimore, Maryland US) ||Age: 50 |
It's Amazing that the other so called main stream religions (Christians, Jews, Mosulums, and Hindu) have killed and mamed peoples in the name of their God over the last 4 thousands years. The same religions that look down on our Pagan/Wiccan beliefs. I alwways ask of them, when was the last time that Pagans/Wiccans started a war or killed in the name of the God/Godess.
| This Is A Rather Old Article As My Sinclair Has Been Dead... ||Sep 14th. at 10:58:56 am UTC|
|Bob Tengal (Toronoto, Ontario CA) ||Age: 47 |
This is a rather old article as My Sinclair has been dead for many years. But this has been circulating around Canadian sites for the past few days and I think it needs to continue to circulate.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -! not once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
Stand proud, America!
| Erin, Read The Article Just Posted...you'll Find It Intersting I Am... ||Sep 14th. at 10:54:12 am UTC|
|Aradia (Newport, Rhode Island US) ||Age: 21 |
Read the article just posted...you'll find it intersting i am sure.
| I Think It Should Be Posted That The 700 Club Is Blaming... ||Sep 14th. at 10:52:09 am UTC|
|Aradia (Newport, Rhode Island US) ||Age: 21 - Email |
I think it should be posted that the 700 Club is blaming the non christians for angering God and bringing this war and tragedy upon the united states. a friend sent this link to me, and i encourage you to read. i do not encourage flaming, but i do think that pagans, the gay community and non christians should know what is being said on national television and be prepared to answer the questions of followers of the Christian Broascast Network, should they see a Pentacle around your neck.
it keeps getting more and more tangled as the hours pass.
Blessings of Hope and Healing,
House of Annwyn
Providence/Newport Rhode Island
| In The Midst Of All This Terror And Tragedy, When We Should... ||Sep 14th. at 10:48:57 am UTC|
|Erin Schroeder (Tyler, Texas US) ||Age: 33 - Email |
In the midst of all this terror and tragedy, when we should all be working together rather than pointing fingers and placing blame, it never ceases to amaze me that there are still some people in this country who refuse to do so. I was watching (again) the coverage on CNN (I'm sure most if not all of us are) and in the scrolling type across the bottom of the screen, I was horrified to read the latest "brilliant" statement from Jerry Falwell (I refuse to put the Rev. in front of his name after this). To paraphrase, "JF believes the Pagans, Abortionists, Feminists, Gays and Lesbians to be the cause of these terrorist attacks." Is JF really an Arab Terrorist, and we've never known? These sentiments seem to fit in completely with some of their beliefs. If he wants to look at it from a religious view point, he should realize that these attackers hate Christianity (obviously so does JF; apparently he doesn't practice what he preaches!), and have made no bones about letting us know that. Bin Laden even attempted to assassinate the Pope a few years ago. I think it is so asinine that JF would even DARE to suggest that the terrorists care about whether we are Pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians. In this time of trouble, he should be offering support to the families of the victims, the courageous rescuers and to this country, as we prepare for the proper course of action against these heinous crimes. He should NOT be using this tragedy as a pulpit from which to preach his personal (and VERY un-Christian) beliefs.
| I Don't Really Know Where To Begin, Other Than I Will Never... ||Sep 14th. at 10:31:45 am UTC|
|Anaya (Surrey (near London), England UK) ||Age: 23 |
I don't really know where to begin, other than I will never be able to erase the memories of this week from my mind.
Everyone I have spoken to has said that it's almost like a Hollywood movie, which if they had seen at the cinema they would never have believed. Still there is shock to know that it is real life and thousands of innocent people have died.
Here in England we are deeply affected, I personally have cried for the victims and their families. Each day that passes reveals another families trauma, another miraculous near miss of a survivor, another insight into the horror, yet little survivors being pulled alive from under the rubble. Another name and picture of a loved one that didn't make it.
I dream that we do not live in a world that has people capable of this evil, but my dreams are shattered by the single, most horrific, deliberate attack on innocence that I have ever seen in my lifetime.
My heart goes out to you all in the US and I pray for your safety. I pray that this evil can be caught before more damage is done.
Keep safe, we are all thinking of you,
With deepest sympathies,
| Let's Not Forget The Number Of Victims That Continue To Mount - Those... ||Sep 14th. at 10:28:39 am UTC|
|Star Cat (Beltsville, Maryland US) ||Age: 41 - Email |
Let's not forget the number of victims that continue to mount - those walking and crawling through the twin Hells of The Pentagon and New York. I'm talking about the firefighters who hoped they would never have to use their disaster training, and all those wonderful dogs, many saved from a death at the pound, who's bodies and paws are being bloodied in the search for hope.
I do volunteer work for a group that sews for charity - there is a call out for handmade booties for the dogs. Their paws are not doing well in all the concrete dust and metal chards. Please email me directly if you're interested in helping the war effort with your sewing talents, and I'll get you a material list and patterns.
I work for a construction company that services Maryland/DC, Northern Virginia, and Delaware. On Tuesday, we called all crews that were down near the Pentagon and told them to secure customer's homes, pack up, and go home as quickly as possible. You would NOT BELIEVE how rude people are being to us - both on that day and since. Screaming at us, threatening to sue us, all for protecting the lives of our employees, and for helping to clear the streets to allow emergency vehicles through. I had a customer call me every name uttered by sailors in the last 400 years, and he swung a belt at me.
I feel so personally attacked by all this local rudeness, now Jerry and Pat are telling me I'm responsible for the evil that descended on us? They want to do work for their god? Let send them over to the Taliban to comfort their fellow recruiters on trial.
| On Days Like This, I'm A Bit Ashamed To Be An American... ||Sep 14th. at 10:27:09 am UTC|
|D'Vynity Thistlewind (Chicago, Illinois US) ||Age: 27 |
On days like this, I'm a bit ashamed to be an American.
Last night, while paying for my groceries, two teenaged cashiers joked and laughed about the fact that one of their friends plans to harass and possibly harm owners of Dunkin Donuts and 7-11's. It took more willpower and control than I thought possible not to scream at these idiot girls. The owners of these businesses are taxpaying Americans just like you and me. They came to this country to begin a new life, like all of us, not to be harassed by a bunch of (mainly) bucktoothed, rednecked, white "good ole boys". My husband and I couldn't find a flag to hang in our window last night, but now I am glad we didn't. Most of the most active flagwavers are also the ones crying out for the most blood, asking for their "compassionate" god to rain fury down upon the Arabs, innocent or not. Our leader, if you want to call him that, has been one of the biggest flagwavers of all, and in my opinion, one of the biggest influences of violence towards Arab-Americans. I have yet to hear him say that to attack our fellow citizens is wrong. All he talks about is war and prayer, two things that shouldn't go hand-in-hand. I don't want to be lumped in with that bunch.
On the way out of the store, I said loud enough for these girls to hear that I fear for two of my Arab friends at work and hope that the streets of America will be safe for them to walk down for the next couple of weeks, if not longer.
One of my friends sent this email to me today. Copy and paste it to send to everyone you know. It pretty much sums up what I've been saying fot the past few days. It's somewhat Biblical, I apologise, but it pretty much wraps stuff up in a good nutshell about what is happening and what may come:
"Each of us face circumstances in life which compel us to carry heavy burdens of sorrow. Adversity assails us with hurricane force. Glowing sunrises are transformed into darkest nights. Our highest hopes are blasted and our noblest dreams are shattered.
"Why should we love our enemies? The reason is fairly obvious. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate can not drive out hate: only love can do that."
ŃMartin Luther King, Jr.
The slaughter of innocent people in New York and Washington, the murders of the people on those planes, is a nightmare, a horror. No one deserves to die in that way.
Absolutely no one. And that includes the innocent civilians of other nations and Arab Americans who had nothing to do with this criminal attack. And thatŐs what it was. A devastating criminal attack by terrorists. Not a declaration of war by a sovereign nation. We must all remember this and make our leaders see this as well.
Those of us following the news the past three days cannot help but hear the escalating rhetoric of our political and military leaders. From condemning a criminal act of terrorism theyŐve jumped to calling the attacks an "act of war." They vow to strike back not just at the perpetrators, but even the countries where they live. They seem to have forgotten that international laws might apply to them. (Colin Powell said they will strike back, "legally or not.") They have already declared war.
War? On whom? This was not, as far as anyone can tell, the act of a sovereign nation, but the act of one or more shadowy organizations. What if they find the CIA trained those terroristsŃas they trained Bin Laden? If indeed, Bin Laden is connected, what will they do? Will they take the long overdue step of dismantling the CIA? What if one of the groups involved is a right-wing American organization, as was behind the bombing in Oklahoma City? Will we bomb Texas or Idaho? What if the terrorists came from Egypt or Jordan? Will we attack countries that are our allies and friends?
Already, there have been attacks on Arab-Americans. A mosque on the south side of Chicago was vandalized. A business owned by a Yemeni family in Gary, Indiana was sprayed with bullets. (Both attacks occurred Wednesday night, 9/12.) The United States is home to many immigrants of Arabic descent: Yemeni, Lebanese, Egyptian, Palestinian, Afghani, Arabian. All came here, to this "beacon of liberty" as Mr. Bush called the United States on Tuesday night. They have the same civil rights, the same human longings for peace and independence, education and freedom as do the descendent of Poles, Ukrainians, Italians, Irish and others. Have we forgotten the terrible injustice of the Japanese interment camps during World War II?
Justice for the perpetrators of this heinous crime--yes. Senseless widespread killing of civilian populations as innocent as the people on those planes and in those towers. No, never!
Do we really want another war? Do we want more innocent civilians dead here and abroad? Do we want to create martyrs? It is time to end this.
American readers of this message, please call the White House comment line right now and say under no circumstances will Americans tolerate indiscriminate acts of violence upon the innocent. Violence only begets more violence. Remind Bush, who claims to be a Christian, of the words from his holy text, the Bible: "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, sayeth the Lord."
The White House comment number is 202/456-1414 and live operators will take your call. Forward this message as widely as you can, print and post it in your neighborhood, at your office, in your church, mosque or synagogue. Call your congressional representative and Senator. Speak the truth.
Those of you abroad, please contact your own leaders and demand that they tell Bush to slow down, to respond with knowledge, not react in rage and arrogance. Though Bush has already shown himself to be in contempt of world treaties, he must hear from other countries and their leaders that war upon civilians, especially nuclear attacks, are actions that will not be tolerated by any civilized nation.
If there is to be a war, let it be a war against anger and hatred. That war begins and ends in the human heart.
To do the work of healing, we must all embrace the cause of justice.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."
"Recompense no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore, if thine enemy hunger, feed him, if he thirst, give him drink. Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good."
ŃLetter of St. Paul to the Romans 12:17-21
Once again, I pray to Athena to grant us Justice and Wisdom in this time of tragedy.
| Since Tuesday, Whenever The Need Comes On Me To Send Up A... ||Sep 14th. at 10:24:40 am UTC|
|Loyalty LionRose (Shreveport, Louisiana US) ||Age: 21 - Email |
Since Tuesday, whenever the need comes on me to send up a prayer, I have. But until last night I hadn't really grasped the full impact of this... "evil act". Then, suddenly, the bubble of protection I keep around myself at all times collapsed and I began to cry tears that I thought I didn't have. I've had a horrible month, folks, and I was afraid that I had wasted all of my tears on myself and had none left for the people most personally affected by this event. I know now that is not true. I don't know why my bubble collapsed, whether it was the barrage of other people's emotions, or if was a signal to me from the Lady, but I'm glad that it did, otherwise I would still be feeling as if I were a tearless oddity in this country flowing with tears.
I know that those who have passed through the veil no longer need our prayers, because they have passed beyond suffering or the need for healing. I send my prayers to their family and friends, but also to the people still sifting through the ashes of all three buildings searching, sometimes in vain, for survivors. I can't imagine being a firefighter, rescue volunteer, or even one of those brave people off the streets who've decided to help... I can't imagine being one of those people and spending my day rummaging through the debris in hope of finding a living soul, only to find bodies, or in some cases, parts of bodies. I don't think that I have the personal strength to be able to do something like that, and I admire those people who ARE putting themselves through such emotional trauma.
I haven't read all of the posts, so I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I recieved word that tonight (Friday) at 7:00 people are going to be stepping out of their homes, their cars (if possible), their offices, or where ever they are and lighting candles to show whoever did this that we are a united nation and will stand together in the darkness, shining our lights together. I plan to step out of my home tonight. Please join me if possible.
Thank you and Brightest Blessing to all,
| I Am A Wisconsin Wiccan And This Is My First Public Post... ||Sep 14th. at 10:21:49 am UTC|
|Lady Pixy SilverRose (Madison, Wisconsin US) ||Age: 18 |
I am a Wisconsin Wiccan and this is my first public post or any sort about what I personally have felt since Tuesday. At first, I didn't even realize the Trade Center had been hit. I was at work and all CNN was showing, at the time, was the
Pentagon with smoke rising into the air. But all day I'd felt dread or some sort, like something screaming at me. When they finally showed the towers, I was mortified. But at the same time, it didn't sink in because I thought I had no connections with either buildings. That was, until I got home.
My elder siste was in an uproar. Apparently two of her close friends live close to each of the buildings and were flipping out. Both were alright. However, my mother announced that our cousin works in the pentagon for the airforce. We were unsure if he was alright. Hours later of everyone panicing, we discovered he was, as well, alright and had been across from where the plane had hit.
Now, outside of everyone being alright, my heart goes out to those who still do not know if their loved ones are also okay. And though I too am angry it happened at all, I only wish Bush would not make such speeches as declaring war on whoever did this to us. War is not the answer, and his idea of attacking those who harbor these criminals, these murderers? We'd be no better than them, killing innocent lives who did no more than live in that nation.
In Wisconsin we are holding candle light vigils. All we can do now is hope and pray that our brothern are alright. And those who are not, pray they are not just the beginning of the lives that may be shed in days to come. And may this open the American people's eyes that we are not a serperate world of our own. There are others out there and they will force our eyes open in any way they can until we see what is really going on in our world.
Lady Pixy SilverRose
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2015 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wrenâ€™s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witchesâ€™ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.