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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 6,361,673  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Well, I've Been Watching The News Reports, As Have Everyone Else, I'm... Sep 14th. at 12:49:09 am UTC

Randy Morobitto (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania US) Age: 34 - Email


Well, I've been watching the news reports, as have everyone else, I'm sure. By now, everyone should be aware that even more of the terrorists have been arrested at JFK and LaGuardia airports.

Just my thoughts on the whole damn situation --

I agree that the innocent should be left as unharmed as possible, though I also realize that innocents will be killed. As much as that bothers me, I accept that in the action that must be carried out. Those who committed the acts against the U.S. will not stop of their own accord. It is truly a shame that our species' history is DEFINED by war -- by violence and destruction of its own kind. That being said, the total destruction of these terrorists, these cowards, must occur; there is no way around that fact. We formerly settled for a symbolic action, or to move these groups away from their targets, but now there can be no room for symbolic acts, nor for mercy toward those who have attacked us.

I know how that sounds. I know how cold and inhuman it reads, as I reread every word, searching for some glimmer of light. At the moment, there is no light to be found. That light is presently covered in the debris that once housed thousands of innocent people -- mothers, fathers, friends and neighbors, and the day-care center where likely dozens of children were happily coloring or playing with dolls and blocks, and the debris where military offices were, though those there were not actually involved in military actions; secretaries and interns, and others who are military in name only.

They were sacrificed for no stated purpose. They were murdered for no legitimate reason, and that cannot be allowed to go unanswered.

May the Gods watch over and be with us in our darkest hours.
May They provide miracles of finding Innocents amid the ruins of concrete and steel. May They give comfort to the families and friends of those lost. May They assist us in ending the acts of terror that target those who have no reason to expect violence, and no way to fight back.


Well Said Shadowwolf. Let Us All Just Hold Hope For Those Who... Sep 14th. at 12:37:41 am UTC

Lily McAllister (Chattanooga, Tennessee US) Age: 40


Well said ShadowWolf.

Let us all just hold hope for those who are in darkness and try not to blame.

Let us send good will to those directly affected by the violence. Send money. Donate blood. Do whatever you can to help them.


I Was Thinking About What Jerry Falwell Said. Basically, It Boils Down... Sep 14th. at 12:35:00 am UTC

Dolfijn (--, California US) Age: 32


I was thinking about what Jerry Falwell said. Basically, it boils down to the idea that the USA, his OWN COUNTRY, deserved to be attacked because there are gays, lesbians, and Pagans here. What a hateful man to say that. In short, he's blaming America for being attacked. He's blaming the victims.

My mom wonders why I sometimes seem angry at Christians. It's not all Christians, or even most Christians. I think mostly they're good people who are happy to live their own lives and to let us live our lives as we see fit. It's jerks like Falwell that anger me. I only wish other prominent Christians would stand up and say, "What Jerry Falwell said was wrong, and does not represent the views of the Christian community."

On the subject of fighting those who did this, I do believe we need to stop them. The death of McVey had nothing to do with this attack. Also, that's a different issue. McVey was a citizen, and his death was due to capital punishment. Bin Laden is an alien terrorist. It does not logically follow that if bin Laden is stopped, someone's going to nuke us. I want peace too, but the United States must NOT tollerate these actions.

It seems to me the US is doing what we should do: investigate, find out exactly who's responsible, gather allies, and go after only the people responsible. If a country harbors that enemy, then they become our enemy. I don't see us trying to wage war against the Arab nations. In fact, many of the Arab nations seem to be on our side. The US is going after the terrorists and those who harbor them, and no one else.

Well, this rant has covered a few topics on my mind. I think I'll modify the part about Falwell and send it on to CNN. I'd like to see them discount Falwell. That'd be nice.

Blessed Be.


Chasmodai ----i Don't Know How Serious Anyone Takes Falwell Anymore. He's Pretty... Sep 14th. at 12:18:38 am UTC

ShadowWolf (Van Nuys, California US) Age: 38


Chasmodai ----

I don't know how serious anyone takes Falwell anymore. He's pretty much a pathetic self-parody at this point in time. Keep in mind, this is the mental giant that said a character from a child's TV show was gay. He's a sad, pathetic joke who doesn't realize his time has come and gone.

That being said, what I also find odious about his hateful comments is that he's using this large-scale tragedy to further his (and his organization's) far-right political agenda. It is truly sickening. At a time when others from all the political parties are banding together, he continues to seek to divide.

To others who read this (though, I don't imagine many regulars on this web site need to be told this), please don't let yourselves fall into a reaction of knee-jerk hate. The Koran does not, in fact, teach the things the extremists that perpetrated this act believe it teaches. As with any religion, there will be fanatics that twist words to their own sick ends (Falwell and Donald Wildmon come to mind, from the Christian side). I've seen postings in other places that say, in effect, "Let's nuke the Arabs!!" I've heard incidents of hate crimes being committed against Muslims and their places of worship in our country. Don't let yourself slide into that cycle of hatred as you react to this tragedy. Rise above. Don't lower yourself to the mentality of those who attacked us. Honor those who were victims of this attack, by rising above.

Blessed Be.


As This Nation Heads To End Another Terrorist's Life, The Emotions Of... Sep 14th. at 12:14:43 am UTC

Scott Ravers (Los Angeles, California US) Age: 31 - Email


As this nation heads to end another terrorist's life, the emotions of hate, anger and revenge are clouding the big picture.

When we as Americans decided to declare war on Timothy Mc. Veigh we thought by killing him would put "closure" on the terrorist subject. We thought this action would put fear into terrorist everywhere not to commit another act against the U.S. Government.

And yet only a few months later another terrorist act, with greater magnitude materializes.

And so we Americans go to war to end another terrorist's life and so the cycle continues, increasing in magnitude as it goes round and round.

After "closure" is put on this next terrorist, the cycle will repeat itself once again; this time possibly with a terrorist detonating a nuclear bomb somewhere in the USA. As 60 minutes and other investigative journalists have shown us, nuclear weapons, whether from fallen empires such as Russia or built or manufactured or sold by a foreign country are easily obtainable.

This I predict, if we let revenge, anger and hatred consume us, will be the next terrorist act. Put simply we are asking for it.

We must learn to control our emotions; as horrible as act as this was, hate and revenge will only make matters worse.

It's a shame we teach our children to learn to love and not hate; when we are the biggest hypocrites of all.


First Off, Nothing I Am About To Say Here Excuses Or Justifies... Sep 14th. at 12:12:29 am UTC

Chasmodai (Las Vegas, Nevada US) Age: 41 - Email


First off, nothing I am about to say here excuses or justifies the actions of terrorists. No matter what we may have done or not done, we did not deserve this. They need to be stopped and they should be brought to justice.

I am concerned because I am seeing American leaders focused on "war" and "winning." Like this is some type of testosterone contest.

I agree that national defense is something that we all should tend to.

However, I think the real solution to the problem is to find a way to end hate and bigotry. To help the entire world to understand that as soon as we realize that the source of our troubles is the tendency for people to believe that one group of people is somehow set apart or better than another, our problems can be solved.

We need to understand that there are extremists and religious bigots everywhere and in all religions, here, in the Middle East, and everywhere. As long as they are allowed to make decisions that affect other people, there will be war.

I'll say it, and if anyone can show me that I am wrong please do because I am in anguish over this - I think our nation's leaders may have been setting policy according to bigotry against the people of Islam. We have been accused many times of giving preferential treatment to Israel. Have we done this?

When I see our leaders placing themselves in positions of heroics, "whipping terrorists, " good vs. evil, I wonder. Are we Americans victims of propoganda just as the German people were victims of propoganda during WW II? Have we committed atrocities against the people of Islam, and they just aren't showing it to us? Or have our actions been justified, which is what they have been saying.

Somehow we must end the division between people. Because everytime we "hunt down" a terrorist and bring him to justice, a new one will spring up to replace him.

Underneath it all, we are all brothers and sisters. Thousands of years ago, the people who worshipped the God of Abraham and the people who worshipped the God of Mohammed were brothers, we Pagans were their brothers too. Somehow over time we became divided, but still any war is really just brother against brother.


Put Your Thoughts To Work As I Just Did. Write Him At... Sep 14th. at 12:09:48 am UTC

Cinnamon (Atlanta, Georgia US) Age: 36 - Email


Put your thoughts to work as I just did. Write him at

jerry@falwell.com

and voice your outrage at his religious and social intolerance. With those comments, he seems no different from those who attacked us. We are different, therefore we are inferior, and need to be held responsible for all the madness in the world?

...is this the voice of all christians? I honestly don't think so... at least I hope not...

just a voice of another madman.

Blessed be sisters & brothers,
Cinnamon


To All My Fellow American Wiccans And Pagans, Tonight 13 Sep 01... Sep 14th. at 12:06:40 am UTC

Strarweaver / Shinma (Marquette, Michigan US) Age: 26 - Email


To all my fellow American wiccans and pagans, Tonight 13 sep 01, I watched CNN news and watched a statement roll across the bottom of the screen from Jerry Falwell. He blames pagans, wiccans, gays, lesbians, feminists, pro-choicers and others for the terrorist attacks on Tuesday. Now is the time when all of us need to come together and help one another when we're attacked, blamed and shamed on national television. Jerry moves to divide us. We must unite and show America that we are strong and supportful to the needs of our fellow Americans in their time of need, regardless to their personal beliefs. I ask you, to contact CNN fellow pagans and wiccans, and others affected by this statement to show our disgust with Jerry's igornant statement and remind him that this is a time of unity, not division, and/or blame. There are much more pressing issues we must attend to, like our wounded and missing. On another note, I thought the Burning Times happened 500 years ago, but it looks like We are still being blamed!


What Am I?i Am A Pagan, A Military Member, A Soon... Sep 14th. at 12:03:16 am UTC

Knight Hawk (Fairview Heights, Illinois US) Age: 25 - Email


What Am I?

I am a pagan, a military member, a soon to be father, and an american. The events of the past few days test the fabric of one's religious beliefs. Being a member of the military I never hoped for war. I pray for the safety of my comrads at arms and that we never half to test our military might.

The inconveinces of traffic backups that may take up to 30 minutes to get on base on slow days normally annoy and frustrate me. On Tuesday night (after working an 8 hour day) I reported back to work for a 12 hour shift with only 4 hours off. I spent 4 and a half hours in line waiting to get on base for the shift. I wasn't even remotely bothered. I couldn't wait to get on base to lend my help to the cause. But was very understanding of the increased security.

I want a war. For the first time, I am filled with the pride of our nation and can not wait until I can be a part of this effort! My religious beliefs prevent me from hurting (or killing) others, but I have NO reserve to ship out and be a part of the action.

This may sound violent and not typical of a pagan, but these are not normal times. What can we do as a society? Pray for the victims, the men and women at arms, ourselves, and those muslims who will be crusified over the next few weeks merely for their beliefs. I pray for them.

Anger, hate, rage... All emotions that shouldn't fill our hearts. To the terrorists... You won. You have managed to seriously damage the faith and will of thousands if not millions of Americans. For whatever sick, twisted reasons you have chosen to declare war on us, I hope you got what you wanted.

What's truely sad, some pagans hold the the belief of a law of three. How is the the rule of three enacted on someone who violently kills 5000 people and then dies themself? What's next? A nuculear bomb in LA?

I swore an oath to defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic... and I will...


I Just Saw The Runner Across The Bottom Of The Tv Screen... Sep 13th. at 11:50:49 pm UTC

Frank Russell (Flagstaff, Arizona US) Age: 46 - Email


I Just saw the runner across the bottom of the TV screen on CNN. The Reverend? Jerry Falwell has publicly stated that Pagans, Gays, and Lesbians are the cause of the terrorist attacks in NY, and Washington. I don't believe that we should just sit back and allow this idiot to espouse his narrow-minded, hate filled opinions. At a time when love and compassion are the prime requisites for the American people as a whole what can we do to shut this worm up?


I Am Stunned At The Viciousness Of This Attack. When I First... Sep 13th. at 11:38:18 pm UTC

Elvenblood (Newark, Delaware US) Age: 28 - Email


I am stunned at the viciousness of this attack. When I first heard the news I was driving to work and some one on the radio said something about an airplane hitting one of the towers. At first I thought it was a joke, or some stupid DJ's attempt at a story. Then they patched to a reporter from another station on the scene and it suddenly hit me....this is real. All I could do was sit in stunned silence with my mouth hanging open, watching the other drivers on the road and listening to the horrible news. Now I look back on that day and remember there was an odd silence on the road that day. No bass thumping from some rap song in someone's car. No conversations going on in the vehicles next to me at stop lights. No one speeding down the road to some important destination. Just a sea of quiet people under a blue Delaware sky on a perfect end of summer day.

Now I constantly think of the things I have seen and heard in the recent coverage of the attack. Things I will never forget like the man and woman who jumped out of one of the towers holding hands and the baby doll one of the rescuers pulled from the rubble. Every time I see another person interviewed on the tv looking for a loved one I think about how if I had taken a couple different turns in my life it could have been me staring into that camera pleading for my wife to come home safely. Or it could have been her pleading for me. It's a sobering thought.

What will become of the children who've lost their parents, the pets that no one is coming home to, the houses and apartments that stand empty, waiting for someone to turn on the lights. My heart goes out to those who are lost and to those who have lost. We will never forget you.


I Just Saw On One Of The Little News Craws At The... Sep 13th. at 11:36:10 pm UTC

Kathleen (Denver, Colorado US) Age: 23


I just saw on one of the little news craws at the bottom of Fox News that Jerry Falwell has said that he blames pagans, abortionists and gays and lesbians for bringing this down on America. I find it beyond repulsive that a man who claims to be a man of god would point the finger of blame at anyone but the person or persons responsible for these heinous acts. The blame lies soley with the maniacs who willingly flew planes loaded with jet fuel and innocent people into occupied buildings.


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