The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Nov. 17, 2002
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Question of the Week: 83 - 10/27/2002
Time to Talk Politics and Elections…
Eek! It’s the silly season again.
For U.S. Pagans/Heathens: The U.S. is holding mid-term elections Nov. 5th. Will you be voting? What are the issues that are most important to you? Do you vote by issue or by party? Do you have any thoughts on how it will turn out?
Non-U.S. Pagans/Heathens: The U.S. is woefully ignorant about your political processes. Please enlighten us. How many parties do you have? What are the names of the parties and what platforms do they represent? Do you have 'liberals' and 'conservatives'? How often do you vote? Do you elect representatives? How do you contact these representatives about your issues?
As always while talking politics, discussions can become heated. Please stay on the issues and do not resort to personal attacks. Further discussions should be taken to e-mail.
| Reponses: There are 109 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| Blessed Be ||Nov 5th. at 12:17:03 pm UTC|
|The Sweeper (OK) ||Age: 48 - Email |
I have already posted to many time on this subject and am deeply sorry, however…….
“I say blessed be to all”, except of course all those fools who disagree with me, and those awful monster to whom I have lost elections oh, and anyone on the Religious Right.
“enormous store of anger ….the massive amount of hatred” My, doesn’t politics bring out the best in us all.
“Anger and hate are very effective motivators” Sadly, this is true, anger and hate are much better motivators then reason and understanding, intelligence and wisdom, or even love and compassion.
Sort of makes me proud to be an American.
| Anti-Bush ||Nov 5th. at 11:11:04 am UTC|
|Prytan (South Jersey) ||Age: 50 - Email |
I'll definitely be voting, I NEVER miss an election. I'm going to hold my nose and vote for the Democrats because control of the Senate and House are riding on this election and there's NOTHING more important to me than keeping Bush from having his Fascist, Religious Right owned-and-operated judicial appointees confirmed. I still remember how lots of Democrats and liberals and progressives sat out the very close'68 election rather than vote for the Democratic candidate, Humphrey. They, and we, are STILL suffering Nixon's Federal and Supreme Court appointees.
As for my own political views, most of them, with the exception of gun control, are about 180 degrees opposite those of the Religious Right and That Fool In The White House.
I think most of the pollsters and pundits will be surprised by how well the Democrats will fare at the polls today. I don't think they've given full credence to the enormous store of anger there is in this country about the stolen 2000 election or the massive amount of hatred there is for Bush. Anger and hate are very effective motivators at election time.
As I reluctantly descend from my soapbox, I say Blessed be to all.
| Our Structure At Present ||Nov 4th. at 11:04:30 pm UTC|
|Tink (Germany) ||Age: 31 - Email |
Germany is a bit diffrent.
Yes we do have librals and conservatives but their agendas are diffrent. Here the librals are under corprate influance more then the conservatives. (mainly because the conservatives have money nad the liberals want money). Our Parlament looks like this:
32% liberal (called the reds or the Social Psomthing Democrates)
38% conservatives (called the blacks or Christian Democratic Union)
8% ecoparty (called the greens)
Presently the Liberals and the Greens have a voting coalition built so they can out vote the conservatives in parlament. This means for the people HEAVY TAXES as the Librals make money for themselves (We're not seeing any of this money as the Libreals are cutting most support for low income people and families with children) and the Greens, through high taxes, try to force the people to not drive their cars and buisness to pay for extravigant ecological protections (or be fined of course, were the money dissapears into the government soft money coffers).
This is all very bad for the working people of Germany. I respect the Greens. They are doing exactly what they said they would do. Sticking to their platform to protect the earth. The Librals on the other hand are streight up liers and thieves. They cut taxes COMPLETELY for the largest, riches German companies. Illiminate help for familes trying to build homes. Raise taxes on the lowest paid jobs so that they get 2/3rds of the money (out of 350€ they get 200€ and you get 150€ nice huh?) They go up on stage and say "We will NOT riase taxes! The next week raising them higher then even the opposition party had estimated).....*sigh*
But we had an election last Sep. and Germany relected these people so what can I say. We live in a Democracy and the stupid Germans out number the smart Germans by (look at the numbers) 2%. The majority rules.....*shugs and goes back to work*
| I Am Indpendant Too ||Nov 4th. at 5:34:58 pm UTC|
|Stacy (topeka, Kansas) ||Age: 36 - Email |
I can't side with the reps and dems and see little diff between them. It seems to be all about corporate influence. So I just can not align with either of them.
I would vote outside of the two parties but who am I kidding? I want more than a 'statement' I will make sure AT least that the repubs don't get all the marbles, and will probably vote demoncrat to keep some check in place, if nothing else, to at least slow down ashcroft and his xtian influences.
What surprises me is to hear the reps still blame it all on Clinton. It's been almost two years... YOUR boy has created his own mess. I'll never forgive bC for lying but, I have every reason to believe that Dubya, has lied even more. I guess that's ok as long as it's not under oathe.
(wishing third party candidates had a prayer)
| I Am Voting For Gridlock. ||Nov 4th. at 11:05:22 am UTC|
|Dances with Shadows (Tucson) ||Age: 49 - Email |
I am politically Independent. I don't have much use for either the Dems or the Reps.
Liberals would tax us dry to pay for social programs that do little or nothing for
targeted populations. Conservatives would poison the Earth to promote business.
At the national level this year I will vote for Democrats to counter the President,
and his hidden agenda(Oil,energy) and shadowy backers.
| Election Day In Floriduh!! OH NO!! ||Nov 4th. at 9:15:15 am UTC|
|MoonOwl (Egypt Lake, Floriduh) ||Age: 39 - Email |
Yes, I am voting. I am voting Democrat all the way down the line.
I wanted Darryl Jones for our governor but he got so little coverage no one knew who he was unless they watched the 1st debate between McBride, Reno & Jones. I guess a man who has good ideas and has solid ways to implement them isn't what it's all about.
Do I like McBride? Not really. But I'm tired of Jeb. I wonder what south floriduh is going to do to screw up the election this time.
I should be fair...the one thing I do like about McBride is that he is receptive to gay adoption (or so he says). Maybe he can pull our great state out of the puritanical age into the new age.
I am pretty convinced that the "good ole boy" system down here will make sure bushie is re-elected, but I will vote anyway. Maybe I'll be pleasently surprised and our system will work as it should without any *lost* votes... Dredge the waters of south Floriduh and I'll bet you'd find 8,000 votes for Gore and just how many for Darryl Jones & Janet Reno!!! What a mess!
At least up here in Hillsborough County we have our act together (I think). Pam Iorio for Mayor!! - She's our supervisior of elections and this woman is on the ball!!!
One more day til the negative ads are over with. YES!!!! Shamey on all those people that don't vote. Remember, it was less than 600 votes that put shrub (i love that) in office. (dredge the waters!!)
VOTE people. It's one right we still have left even if it doesn't count!!
Peace & Love!
| Just A Thought... ||Nov 4th. at 4:18:19 am UTC|
|Jesse (WA) ||Age: 19 - Email |
I've seen a lot of discussion regarding George W. Bush and his ties to corporate America, and I just have to wonder ...
Hasn't anybody stopped to think, wait a minute...Bush gets into office and all these people start getting caught. Bush is signing legislature thats putting them in jail. As compared to 8 years of Clinton, where we now learn that "great economy" he developed was a sham, and they were getting away with. Its real easy to look good when youre cooking the books.
I'm no fan of the Bushs....I would've voted Nader had I been old enough....but I just find it very upsetting when people don't follow their thoughts to conclusion sometimes.
I fully support the freedom of religion, and am sick of the bible-thumpers as any logical person should be, for the record. I'm also sick of our corrupt two-party system that promises change but all we ever hear are the same tired debates: abortion, gun control, finger-pointing....
While the newest numbers prove that the economy is not nearly as in the slump as democrats would have you believe (especially when you consider the circumstances of our previous 'great' economy, as discussed above), and that we're actually looking better than we have in awhile, thats no reason to stop working. Yet the Republicans are too war-hungry and the democrats are busy complaining, but offering no solutions...Who will offer a solution? Noone in my state has done that yet.
Our campaigning incumbent democrat representative goes on rants about the state of the economy, yet offers no solutions. Republican rallies focus on the war in Iraq - as an American, I feel the press of danger upon us, but believe it is in those times that we must question our actions the most.
Where are those of us who seek true reform to turn to?
| Time To Talk Politics And Election ||Nov 3rd. at 9:55:59 pm UTC|
|Jan Roaix (Enfield, CT) ||Age: 43 - Email |
Normally I would vote by party line for the larger elections (i.e. President, VP, and Congress) as they are the people who will decide how the country will be governed. Not just how it will be governed, for the next two years, but possibly for several years, as the party in power has the ability to place Judges, and set policy. How this country does or does not follow international law is based on who is running the show on the federal level
On the local level, I am more likely to vote issues than to vote for one party over the next.
| Voting ||Nov 3rd. at 8:43:19 pm UTC|
|Sharon Bryan (Charleston WV) ||Age: 32 - Email |
Yes, I will be voting on Nov. 5. I vote in a combination, party and issues.
If a candidate outside my party appears to me to be better qualified to do the job, or he/she
stands solidly on an issue that I support, I place my vote for that candidate regardless of party.
As for how these elections will turn out, its hard to say. At this point in time, I don't think that our elected officials have our interests that close to their hearts or minds, but more their
own issues and agendas. I think more could be done to assist the needy, elderly, and poverty stricken youths of our country than is happening. There are still children living in poor circumstances, and older persons having to choose between medical care/prescriptions and food.
I'd like nothing more than to see elected officials who can and do make a difference to these people, as the elderly can tell us where we have been, and our children will take us where we are going.
| INQUISITION AMERICAN STYLE ||Nov 3rd. at 4:50:39 pm UTC|
|Stacey Michael (New Orleans) ||Age: 34 - Email - Web|
In 2002, Supreme Court Chief Justice Antonin Scalia commented in an article published in a religion journal called First Things, “government . . . derives its moral authority from God. It is the ‘minister of God’ with powers to ‘revenge,’ to ‘execute wrath,’ including even wrath by the sword (which is unmistakably a reference to the death penalty or the current war on terror).” The Machiavellian ideals are shown here, as this was a simple truth in his time, a time which also was not without corruption, which Martin Luther pointed out in his 95 thesis.
No one has the right to act on behalf of divinity, especially a government. Once a person believes they are doing what God would do in casing judgment, that person is proving that God can not make those decisions himself. The most common error that tyrants make is assuming they are either a god, or act as a mercenary for a god; a singular belief that has been histories most egregious justification for murder and assassination.
This opinion by Justice Scalia is quite disturbing, because as Americans we are always skeptical of government; we do not worship it. The United States gets its ideals, its ethics and its moral authority by the will of the people, not by some hypothetical concept of divinity.
The next time Justice Scalia pronounces on the death penalty or on the relationship between church and state, you might want to consider that for all the intellectual exercises that he may have endured; egalitarianism is not his strongest point.
Yet, with the majority of Justices on the Supreme Court, with the God-before-America mentality required by the Bush administration; there is somehow a shortage of zealots in government. At least that’s what Jerry Falwell would have you believe, since he’s opening his own Law School at Liberty University a Christian Cartel factory.
In a memo sent via email to Falwell’s avid Sheeple, he states, “Liberty University’s School of Law will employ professors who are: committed to the inspiration and infallibility of the Bible; committed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ; committed to a strict constructionist (Christian Nation) view of the U.S. Constitution; committed to training godly attorneys, judges and justices. Our law school, like Liberty University, will recruit students who have a desire to impact our nation and the world for our Savior.”
Yeah, just what we all need, more lawyers, one’s filled self-righteous indignation compounded by an apocalyptic thirst for blood, money, and totally convinced of their heavenly destiny. Shakespeare once said, “Kill all the lawyers”, by contrast Falwell would say in his archetypal draconian voice, “Come unto me thy spawn of Hell.”
In another burst of zealotry, Falwell released another memo a few days later, chastising Democrats for not mourning the death of Senator Paul Wellstone (D-Minn), who was killed in a plan crash two weeks before the mid-term election in 2002, the way that he would have like them to. The late Sen. Wellstone was considered by the majority of political pundits, the most liberal democrat in Washington, yet when Democrats venerate around Wellstone’s own ideals at the last half of his memorial service, the Christian Cartel was suddenly offended by that display by his supporters.
Falwell said, “the spirit of grief was transformed into a spirit of vindictiveness and revenge.”
Of course what democrats did wasn’t anything like the hell-fire sermons that Falwell gives anytime there’s a national tragedy, as he did, after the terrorist attack on the United States on September 11th, 2001. No, Falwell’s own hypocrisy is far more sinister, as he regularly engorges himself on the death, disease, famine and war of the innocent.
Falwell added, “and therein we see the basis for this memorial service, and for everything the Democrats do. It is a reckless pursuit of power.” Unlike the Christian Cartel which seeks a totalitarian theocracy; bitch-slapping the founding charter on a daily basis.
Congratulations to the Christian Cartel! Suddenly they know what it’s like to be a captive audience at a memorial service, and then forced to listen to opposing language; something that our children have to endure everyday. Whether it’s prayer in schools, Nazi talk-radio, “under God” exclusivity of patriotism, presidential sermons and self-aggrandizements, or binary good/evil justifications for war-mongering, we are held captive by the Christian Cartels rhetoric at every turn.
Herein lays the high water mark of intolerance by the Christian Cartel. They are so quick to prove their self-righteousness, believing that divine providence has placed them in power (in spite of the lying, cheating, and crooked deals during the 2000 election), that when anyone thinks for themselves, especially during election time, they become so very offended.
Proven by Falwell’s own statement, “This sham of a memorial service was all about returning Democrats to power at all costs. And it was an ugly thing to behold.”
The reality is, what these Christian Cartel leaders are pissed off about, is that they went to a memorial service under a mask of virtue, only to have their church-face pinch at their brain, crying out for independent thought, the minute the self-adulation for myopic precepts of divinity were thrown to the floor; and the ideals of the man of honor were exalted. Talk about your whiners?
Link to More info related to this post -- HERE
| Buzzard Buddies ||Nov 3rd. at 4:45:47 pm UTC|
|Stacey Michael (New Orleans) ||Age: 34 - Email - Web|
Politics being what it is, that typically being a game of ‘you scratch my back, I scratch yours.’ The most powerful man in the world doesn’t like to admit he’s in the thick of the game, in attempts to give the appearance that all his “new” ideas are of his own genius.
In reality, programs like George Bush’s “Faith-Based” policies are typical payback in politics, for those in the Bush family, to those whom help them get what they want, though typically at the expense of others.
GW Bush was appointed to office by the Christian Cartel, through them, he was given the power that he now enjoys. They only asked one thing, follow their agenda, and never consider the implications of corruption. Not a difficult promise for dubya, as his pedigree shows.
Similarly Jeb Bush, dubya’s brother and Governor of Florida, was a banker who forced taxpayers to pay back $4.5 million in fraudulent loans in 1990 from Broward Federal Savings and Loan, in Sunrise, Florida. To his buddy and business partner J. Edward Houston to the Codina-Bush partnership Real Estate investment firm. Using the money from the secured FDIC, as though it were his own personal piggy bank .
As to mention that Miguel Recarey Jr., a very good friend of Jeb, and Cuban immigrant, as well as a known mob-boss, paid Jeb $75,000 to “find a new headquarters” for his International Medical Centers, a health maintenance organization or HMO. Contrarily, published reports showed that IMC had already selected a building for its headquarters prior to Jeb having received the money, but not so serendipitously, records indicated that Jeb made a call to at least one official at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to assist Recarey in obtaining a waiver from the limit on the number of Medicare patients he could treat. Only to have Recarey embezzle $1 Billion dollars from the HMO, later paid back by taxpayers .
During George Bush Sr.’s administration, all investigations of wrong-doing into Jeb’s business deals, went *poof*. Governor Jeb Bush was also “neutral” during the voting chagrin in Florida in which GW Bush became the appointed squatter in the Executive Branch, placing a family member in the top seat once again.
In the taxpayer bailout of $500 Billion dollars in failed Savings and Loans, four of the five biggest defaulters were directly linked to the Bush family. Neil Bush’s personal piggy bank, known as Silverado Saving and Loan gave $132 Million dollars to JNB Exploration Inc., in Denver, which Neil was a partner in, while receiving $550,000 salary, as well as $100,000 to play in the commodities market, and lost the whole amount, then JNB went belly-up. Treasury officials handed over the investigation to the FBI in the conflict of interest of Neil, but the investigation under Bush Sr., went *poof* .
Jonathan Bush, Uncle to dubya, was fined $30,000 for violating securities laws in Massachusetts in 1991 and barred from publicly trading for one year for his J. Bush & Co., and had to reimburse clients in his fraudulent behavior.
Prescott Bush, another uncle to dubya and brother to George Sr., formed a partnership with Susumu Ishii, who headed Japan’s second largest underworld syndicate, in the West Tsusho Co., in Japan to pay $3.8 million for a stake in Quantum Access Inc., a Houston software firm headed by a nephew of Prescott Bush, Draper Kauffman; and it paid $5 million for a 38% stake in Assets Management International Financing & Settlement, a New York firm on whose advisory board, Prescott Bush served. Which mysteriously went belly up after the $5 million dollar payoff.
In an “unrelated” policy change under Bush Sr., the Independent Investigative Organized-Strike Force was absorbed into the Department of Justice, under strong opposition from Congress, saying that the action would cripple the department’s efforts to fight organized crime .
Jonathan Kwitney, an award-winning journalist for PBS and the Wall Street Journal, detailed an incredible amount of various connections between Bush Sr., and those who took billions in the S&L scandal. Under which, “investigations were called off, proposed fraud charges weren’t brought, and the President (Bush Sr.) continued to pal around with investigative targets who got off scot-free.”
Then we come to GW Bush, our fearless squatter. Who recently has been linked to the Enron collapse in which top aids were directly and exclusively giving access to White House energy policy, while parts of the nation were dealing with rolling blackouts, and huge energy costs. Blaming the these blackouts on the shortage of power plants, while cabinet members who were illegally holding onto stock in the company, watched the stock price soar, only to sell that stock, “in compliance with the law”, even holding on to options to by more than 665,000 shares, just prior to the company’s failure, as was the case with Thomas White, cabinet member and former executive of Enron, after he became secretary of the Army . Where executives were allowed to sell their shares making millions of dollars each, but employees lost everything in their retirement.
After twenty years of service, some of the former employees are worse off now than before they started working for the company .
Given the fact that Enron gave $5 Million in donations, as well as access to the company Jet, to the Bush 2000 election, it’s not very likely that anyone will pay for their mismanagement of the company, except the taxpayers of course, in the $50 Billion bankruptcy, the country’s largest in history.
In “unrelated” policy changes, GW Bush deemed ‘classified’ all the actions of his administration and previous administrations (including Bush Sr.) under executive order, just prior to the Enron bankruptcy, making any investigation completely out of reach from the Congress, in gaining information on the dealings with Enron and the Executive Branch.
This is hardly new stuff to the boy George. Before he was Governor of Texas, he was a consultant for Harken Energy Corp. a Dallas based company, in which he sold his stock in the company one week before the company was to report unusually poor earnings for $828,560 in 1989, after which the company lost 60% of its value. While at the same time pulled down a six-figure salary as a consultant as the company was reporting a $12 million dollar loss. Under the Bush Sr. administration, the SEC conducted an investigation of “insider trading” that mysteriously went *poof*.
While it is true that GW Bush does not have any known ties to Enron, except the close friendship to the top Buzzards of the company, many of those on his Cabinet do. Which is the common eliminate surrounding the Bush family. While they are placed in power by the King makers, those same Buzzards who placed them in power in the first place, expect protection and privilege in their endeavors. This is hardly a conspiracy like some would claim, as part of a “New World Order”, just a lot of greedy people who have their hands in the cookie jar.
Most of these people come from very old money, celebrating their own heritage from the white European decent, in a bourgeois lifestyle believing they are above the law, because the make the law. Sacrificing the ideals in which the country was founded, to carry on their buccaneer business deals, to continue with the tradition of the family.
In the world of white-collar crime in the theft of Billions, possibly, Trillions of dollars in the twentieth century and now the twenty-first century, you could play a version of the “Kevin Bacon game” with the Bush family and a who’s-who of laundered, embezzled, stolen, or mismanaged money in which has come directly out of the tax-payer or shareholder pocket.
Now the GW Bush administration wants to allow Tele-Evangelists to have access to your tax dollars through ‘faith-based’ programs? You’ll forgive me if that seems a little disingenuous. Given the track record in the abuse of power, authority and hypocritical business deals, the idea of giving the Christian Cartel subsidy into my tax-dollars to conduct a conversion crusade, or finance the gold digging of countries that launder for terrorists, is perversion par excellence.
The attempts to make this kind of corruption legal, is seen in slivers of the Cartel’s rhetoric, by wanting to “keep separate books” in charity programs, of keeping non-‘mainstream’ religions out of the fold so the number of groups allowed to the pot is lessened, and the regulation of information in which they want to keep things hidden from the public, while slandering anyone who would question the authority. The Cartel, which takes every opportunist situation, waiting for death, disease and carnage to activate their reactionary religious laws, circling around tragedy like scavenger birds, with mouths salivating to pick the bones clean of Uncle Sam. The question must come…is this what the corrupt see as fortune in the land of opportunity, or is this justification for debauchery to prove virtue?
This type of government has been seen before, it’s called “Imperialism”. Placing the authority in the hands of King George to rule on what is considered a religion, allowing those in the Aristocracy with sole privilege of conducting whatever business deal, or infringment of rights at the whim of the overlord.
Are we now, as the guardians of the Pagan philosophies going to allow this to happen? Are we going to sacrifice our birthright to those who proclaim to be leaders of the free world, to legalize slavery for all humanity?
Our world was built on the blood, sweat, and tears of the oppressed for those in privilege. The few, who wish to sacrifice the many, for their own endowment of power has a long-standing tradition around the world. Is that what America is to become, a continuance of two thousand years of error?
These Cartel leaders talk about the laws of God, the incessant blithering of their idol, while proclaiming that anyone who does not think as they do, are their enemies. Believing that draconian law is the virtue of innocence in which they wish to return to the land of Eden, promoting that love, salvation, and eternal bliss are the rewards for their own installations of suffering upon the world. Believing they are ordained by God to be the Shepherds to the Sheeple using their dogs of war, to hurd the huddled masses to the slaughter house so that they can become fat off of our flesh.
This is not the virtue of philosophy that is meant as a way of living, it is the slow methodical death of the soul. In the Cartel’s rhetoric they say, “Don’t worry, corruption won’t happen in the name of God. The check is in the mail, and we won’t cum in your mouth.”
Link to More info related to this post -- HERE
| Life And Elections Is CA ||Nov 3rd. at 11:55:11 am UTC|
|Justin Smith (Sacramento, CA) ||Age: 25 - Email |
I have seen a bit of the races arround the country, here's my take on the races out Cali way:
We're running a gubenitorial race right now, and this is the hot one. The incumbent, Democrat Gray Davis is an unabbashed criminal; even the media outlets that support him are running reports of his blatant bribe recieving. To top it off, he's incompitent: he has repeatedly held off action in important issues untill they become crises (apparently to see which side will pay him more.)
The other side is not much more appealing. Mr. Davis spent millions in the republican primary to ensure that a political novice, and well-meaning idiot (I'm being kind here,) Bill Simon would be thw other name on the ballot. Simon's campaign has been the rough equivelant of doing the rumba in a minefield. The fact that Davis' bribery-inflated warchest is more than 20 times that of Simon hasn't helped Bill in the advertisement wars.
Nobody (other than fierce partisans on either side)likes either canidate. The third-parties aren't much of a choice either. The Libertarians' sole issue is the right to own ferrets as pets (hardly the solution to the dearth of buisness growth or the impending return of the power crisis that our govenor will need to deal with.) The greens just scare me; Peter Juan Camecho (the green canidate) is an avowed socialist who, while honest, supports policies that would drive CA further into the red (no pun intended.) At least he'd do it with FEELING.
Just southeast of here in Stockton, the only canidate on the ballot for judge has been disbarred for frequent and blatant violations of the previous judgeship he held.
In almost every race, we're left with the best of a very bad lot. Yet the local media still wonders why we're expecting record-low turnout.
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