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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 5,867,685  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Saddened And Shocked By These Acts, I Still Struggle To Find A... Sep 13th. at 10:02:32 pm UTC

Shila Redwolf Winterborn (Nicolle) (Jacksonville, Florida US) Age: 29 - Email


Saddened and Shocked by these acts, I still struggle to find a way to explain these events to my young daughter. I mourn for those who died and hope for those who may yet be found alive. The biggest struggle now is not give a knee-jerk reaction as some have suggested such as limiting freedom of speech, religion, and such. These actions will not help heal this country but futher tear us apart. Let us not blame all Islamic followers, most are just as outraged as we are.

What we all need to do to help prevent this from happening again is to ferret out those who masterminded it and punish them. Futher upgrade security at airports all over the country, not just for now but forever. This may take us longer to get to our planes and flights, but have you seen the security over seas... it's increadable! Do not depend on the government to prevent all attacks... much can be done ourselves, such as being aware and reporting suspicious activites to the athorities, taking all credable threats seriously, and finally, give blood on a regular basis, not just when a tragity strikes, that way the blood is there whenever it is called upon.

My final thoughts are that we should hope for the best and cope with the rest as this is far from over. As the Autumn Equinox approaches, let us remember those lives lost, be they christian, Islamic, Jewish, Pagan or Buddist, may they find peace now and come together to let these cowards know that we have a Patroit missle ready to ram it up thier A**! he he!

Bright blessing on us all and the God and Goddess be with you now!


I Am Also Wondering Why George Bush Was Praying On The Tv... Sep 13th. at 9:53:14 pm UTC

Golden Nimue (Houston, Texas US) Age: 15 - Email


I am also wondering why George Bush was praying on the TV, when it is supposed to be a place of religious choice, but it is probably becuase he comes from Texas, and everyone here is Baptists, or most of them atleast. But that's not what worring me. If this happened to any other country (except maybe England), America wouldn't have done anything about it, why should we worry about it, it isn't our country, not our job to look after. We're supposed to be the leaders of the world, that's a joke. Since it's my (yes I'm an American) country, we have to pull every other country into this, and all because it's supposed to be 'the leading building in the world'. If we really don't care about the rest of the world, why are we trying to get everyone else involved by claiming that they were attacked too by this. To me, what's important, is not the fact that a building was bombed, it is the fact that there are now orphans out there, that lost their parents. If we get this whole thing into a war, then there will be more of them out there, not only in New York, but through the whole of America, England, and any other country in the world, that is drwan in.


I Am Truly And Deeply Shocked Over What's Happened. All I Have... Sep 13th. at 9:50:14 pm UTC

Snowgrouse (Lahti, Finland, Finland) Age: 22


I am truly and deeply shocked over what's happened. All I have to say, after following all the conversations, is: DO NOT GIVE IN TO HATE. Do not descend down to the level of the terrorists, painting "The Enemy" as a faceless monster, no matter how easy and understandable it is in this situation. Dualism, black-and-white thinking, separation into "us" and "them" is what caused this tragedy in the first place. Justice must be served, but a war is definitely not necessary. I urge others to remember this. When fighting monsters, take care not to become a monster yourself. Let this not become WW3, no matter what.

My husband is working for the British Ministry Of Defence and says that everybody there is fearing for their lives right now because of the terrorist threats. Suddenly everything that seemed important (work, studying, money) seems very trivial when all I want to do right now is to be with him, and hold him tight. But I'm 2100 miles away in Finland. All I can give is my love in the form of e-mail and phone calls and magic. I have to say I'm jealous at the people who can hold their loved ones and weep against their shoulders at this terrible time--you're lucky:).

I'm lighting up candles under an image of Kuan Yin. My prayers are with Lady Peace right now. Not just for America but for the whole world. Blessed be.


I'm Still In Shock. My Father Works...worked In The Building Right... Sep 13th. at 9:44:46 pm UTC

Jessica (New York, New York US) Age: 17 - Email


i'm still in shock. my father works...worked in the building right next to it...the building currently "swaying" and "buckling" and in dire danger of collapse. my mother works maybe a few more blocks east. i was in school when i found out--i was hysterical trying to get a hold of them, and when i couldn't, i was literally going out of my mind. my friends are still missing fathers. still more friends are missing fathers who are firemen. and there are the tens of thousands who must feel the same pain. it's all so surreal. i've had the "thousand yard stare" all night and all morning. manhattan skyline without the Twin Towers. what'm i going to do? i've been up there on the observation deck on at least 10 different occasions. i can't imagine NYC without it.

right now i don't even care about that. it's the effect--i feel so...for lack of a better word, violated. this is too close to home. it's completely different to read about this in the paper or to read about a war that happened decades or centuries ago in a textbook, it's another to have it happen less than half an hour's ride away at a place where i've known people, where i've visited almost yearly for the past decade. and knowing that it will never there again...that i will never see the two gleaming towers in the sunlight as i cross the ferry or as i walk down Broadway in Lower Manhattan. knowing that 50, 000 people on an average day work there. that 150, 000 tourists on an average day visit there. that SCHOOL CHILDREN go there on field trips. i don't even want to start thinking about the body count right now. the sight of the body bags outside the Pentagon was just so...disturbing. it's all very disturbing. i can't accept this...this is totally unacceptable. it's like a dream, a nightmare...except it's real.


It Has Been A Couple Of Days Since The Disaster And I... Sep 13th. at 9:36:56 pm UTC

Taliesin SpiritVoice (Commerce, Texas US) Age: 24 - Email


It has been a couple of days since the disaster and I am still in a state of shock. My heart goes out to those who lost their lives and I pray that they have made it safely over to Tir na n'Og. I'm in Texas and I would love to meet with others or at least speak with others in this area who are a part of the pagan community. It is in times like these that it seems especially hard to be a solitary practitioner. It would help if I knew others in the area. Now is the time for us to come together and to support each other as we work toward helping to bring peace to our nation once again.


It Is Truly Tragic What Happened To All Those People Caught In... Sep 13th. at 9:26:35 pm UTC

Marko Vujnovic (Belgrade, Yugoslavia) Age: 20 - Email


It is truly tragic what happened to all those people caught in this accident. And not only for them, but it would seem everyone ine is USA is affected by it, one way or another. I really wish to express my condolences to al lthose whose relatives and loved ones are hurt or missing.

However, one thing is really bugging me about this, and I hope you won't get it the wrong way. I live in Belgrade, and I was born here. I lived thru something quite simmilar to what happened in New York and Washington, so I know how everyone feels. The only differance was that bombing that was happening around me lasted for more than 70 days, and all that time, every single night. I was able to watch on CNN how "American peace figters" lift off from Aviano in Italy, fly over here safely, drop a couple hundred bombs and then return to take their evening snack. At least you people in USA are pretty sure it won't happen again anytime soon, and you can fight back. And what especialyl strikes me about all this is how everyone thought it was ok while it was happening in Belgrade, and when it happens in NY, whole world is offering condolences and help.

It's not my intention to start any political discussion, nor am I trying to place any blame on anyone. A human life lost is a human life lost, and nothing can possibly make it right. It scares me that someone is actually capable of sommiting such terrible attrocities. However, I hope that an average USA citisen can think about how people elsewhere are feelign when their 'peace fighters' go bombing other countries, for whatever reason.

Again, I hope no one took any offence, as none was intended.

Anyway, didn't anyone find it at leastr slightly weird that Bush was reciting Bible over the TV? I mean, that's like braking the civilisations most important achievement of the past century: keeping the state and the church separate.

Well, jsut my two cents... he's not my president anyway.


We In Our Family Were All Shocked With What We Saw On... Sep 13th. at 9:17:57 pm UTC

Daryl Valaquio (Makati City, Philippines) Age: 22 - Email


We in our family were all shocked with what we saw on our television screen. It's like watching a movie . . . but unfortunately, it's real. First thing that comes to my mind was "God, tell me this isn't real, please!" But hell NO!
I pray that those who died in the incident will be given justice as soon as possible. Our country(the Philippines), share the same grief as we also experience the terror of the Abu Sayaff, and so our outmost support to President Bush in his decision of retaliation. Our country, addressed by the Macapagal Administration, will give its support to America. I just hope and pray that this will not be the beginning of another World War.

My depeest condolences & sympathy to all those who are affected by the tragedy.


I Have Thought How I Wanted To Express My Feelings....i Came... Sep 13th. at 9:04:44 pm UTC

Triskele (Louisville, Kentucky US) Age: 29 - Email


I have thought how I wanted to express my feelings....I came across this and felt it was perfect.

In Darkness and Light, Triskele http://www.hennagrove.com

~~~~~~~~~ We'll go forward from this moment It's my job to have something to say.

They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals.

IN PAIN

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined

THE STEEL IN US

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started

But you're about to learn.

Leonard Pitt - Miami Herald leonardpitts@mindspring.com


This Is A Sad Time For All Of America. While I Am... Sep 13th. at 8:14:44 pm UTC

Turtleheart (Annapolis/DC, Maryland US) Age: 50


This is a sad time for all of America. While I am a pacifist at heart, I will stand by my Country's desicions in rooting out and ridding the world of the scum who believe that because our beliefs are different, that we all deserve to die. I sing praises to all other counries that are standing beside us in our hour of need. I sing praises to the hard working women and men who are giving their all in looking for survivors. I sing praises to the wonderful people of New York who have banded together in support of each other. I sing praises to the United States of America. Lady Liberty shines on today, tomorrow, and her light will never die.

Turtleheart


Enlistingthey're Mobilizing And Organizingdrawing Plans To Rid The Worldof... Sep 13th. at 8:07:17 pm UTC

Mo Stoycoff (Sacramento, California US) Age: 31


Enlisting

They're mobilizing and organizing
drawing plans to rid the world
of threats and cowards and dark
fear-inducing little masses of men

And I with my one small mind
can't reconcile the deep of this event
cannot determine myself in all of this
cannot see but past the falling bodies

The blood of explosions dye my dreams
the bewildered cries of orphaned neighbors
rub me like three leaves of green
raw and poisoned and quarantined

I discover how little they matter
the little masses of men who fear
the small secret armies at war
the thin arms which tear and break the world

Or even the dreams of horror in my bed
over what this aftermath has wrought
the eyes locking, the hands clasping
and the blood freely given

The other little soldiers matter
who gather in offices, pubs and temples
who draw the moon out of the dark of the sky
and quietly spin strength from the threads of war

by Mo Stoycoff


My Heart Goes Out To All The Families Of This Great Tragedy... Sep 13th. at 7:46:28 pm UTC

Seldanna (Norwood (just outside Boston), Massachusetts US) Age: 25 - Email


My heart goes out to all the families of this great tragedy. Every night I pray to our gracious Lord and Lady to comfort the souls of the lost and comfort and send peace to those they left behind.

As for the people/person responsible, I don't know what to say. ALl that I believe says Harm none, but every thing I feel says the complete opposite. I pray and meditate every day for the clarity I need to clear my mind and soul. I am lucky that I did not personally know anyone that was lost. However many of my dear friens did. I don't think an all out war is going to help anything. I think it may make matters worse.

I pray to those in the armed services of the United States of America, that are our brothers and sisters in beliefs. I pray that they find the strength they need to work through their struggles with what they are trained to do and what they believe in.

I pray for my country to find healing. The healing for friends and families that have been left behind. The healing of a coutry. The healing of the world.

I pray for all of humanity to heal from this tragic turn of events.

I pray, just pray... pray for the future generations yet to come.


On Behalf Of The Fullmoon Coven, Here In England, May I Express... Sep 13th. at 7:44:01 pm UTC

Cerridwen (Wigan, England UK) Age: 50 - Email


On behalf of The Fullmoon Coven, here in England, may I express our sympathy with our brothers and sisters over in America at this terrible time.
We pray the Dark Mother will enfold all the victims in her arms, to give them "peace and freedom and re-union with those who have gone before." May She guild them towards the siver creasent of the Maiden, the light of rebirth. May the Lord give you all strength of heart at this terrible time. May He plant in you all the seeds of Hope for the future.

Out of darkness comes light
Out of dispare comes hope,
Out of tears, comes joy,
Through the smoke, a new sun rose,
And Liberty still stands.
Her flame burning bright.


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