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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 5,789,168  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


First Let Me Say The Humanity Of This Tragic Chaos Is Almost... Sep 13th. at 2:24:39 pm UTC

Aradia Ravensign (Coral Springs, Florida US) Age: 23 - Email


First let me say the humanity of this tragic chaos is almost to much to bare. When you see two buildings fall, you are in awe and shock. When you see the pentagon destruction, your are horrified for the nation. When you see people leaping from the floors, holding hands, strangers bleeding in the streets, dead bodies lying on the ground, screams of terror ringing in the air, children crying for their parents, wifeÕs crying for their husbands, brothers and sisters of mine, of all of us, crying out in one voice, WHY! Those are the things that make us all cry for strangers, brothers and sister that suffer thru this terrible pain.

Let us remember and give us the courage to not return to our barbarism and serve the same cruelty shown to us. Let us remember that we are horrified because we live in a society that considers ourselves the Òcivilized free worldÓ and how could these things happen here? We CAN NOT bomb other countries where it may be possible to kill other brothers and sisters of ours, in this family of our human race. No matter how much we are angry, in pain, or terrified, we must remember what we stand for even when these enemies face us. Let us remember ÒThe land of the free and the home of the braveÓ and Òwith liberty and justice for ALL.Ó

May the Goddess Bless and protect all of you and your families.


Well, It Is Now Two Days Later, And My Reactions Are Evolving... Sep 13th. at 2:19:50 pm UTC

Aedh Rua (New Richmond, Wisconsin US) Age: 35 - Email


Well, it is now two days later, and my reactions are evolving. Here are a few of them:

1. This was an attack not only on Christian America, but also on us, that is on Pagans/Heathens. There were almost certainly Pagans in the world trade center. There were almost certainly Pagans on at least one of the hijacked planes. Until now I had considered us to be neutral in a conflict between Moslems, Jews, and Christians. But no longer.

2. Ancient Celtic values include most of all an Firinne, called Uera in Gaulish, which means Truth, both in the sense of not-falsehood, but also in the sense of the cosmic order, and essential justice. Because of this, we cannot wage war against all Moslems, but only against those responsible.

3. There is an ancient institution called in Irish the "Cethern". This word means war-band, and is the origin of the Hiberno-English term "kern", meaning fighter. The Gaulish, by the way, is the unrelated word Corios, which has nonethless the same meaning. It was indeed possible to wage war against "aire 's a chethern", which is to say, against a noble and his war-band. It appears that "Osama bin Ladin 's a chethern" are behind the attacks. If that is proven, then we, as Pagans, are at war against this man and his followers.

4. That war must be waged with crogacht, which is to say, blood-thirst. This crime is such that there would be no honor in accepting compensation. We must kill, kill, and kill again, until that thrist is slaked, and until we know in our hearts that the war is over.

5. This means that we are temporarily allied to the Christians, and even the fundies. This is a very strange alliance, but no stranger, I suppose, than the alliance between the Russians and Americans in World War II. As far as I am concerned, our alliance is about that close, too. The thought of "Dubya" with war powers is an Orwellian nightmare. Even as we do what we can to support American retaliation against "Osama 's a chethern", we had better make sure that we aren't giving away our own freedom in the process. When the war against Osama ends, so does our alliance with the fundies. They have hurt our children, and, though I don't want to hate them, I will not forget that, or ever be comfortable with their having so much as a drop of political power.

6. I also have to admit that America had something to do with causing this mess. The U.S. really did train and arm this fanatic, back in the Cold War, and the West as a whole has allowed the whole Middle East mess to fester until it is now at an almost hopeless point. When the war is over, we need to do what we can, without arrogance, and listening to all sides, to help bring a real and just peace.

7. There are a lot of people still suffering from the attack itself. We must do what we can to help them. My blood is for various reasons useless. Therefore, I must give money. But we must all give money, blood, or work.

This is what I feel right now.


To All Of You Out There Out Of Nyc. Send You Light... Sep 13th. at 2:14:45 pm UTC

Mary (New York, New York US) Age: 40


To all of you out there out of NYC. Send you light and love to us. Pray and make spells for peace. Very few of you are from the city. Belive me we are more scared than any of you about future attacks. Every 5 minutes we are hearing of more and more bomb threats. People are still walking around dazed and the children are terrified. Light candles tonight at 10:30 Eastern Time and send us not only your love and light but send the Goddes in all her forms to us and the rest of the nation. Reflect on the lives lost and the lives destroyed not only here in NYC but the rest of the world. We can make change. Already large numbers of New Yorkers are meeting in parks and chanting, writing and praying together. Join us. Send love not thoughts of vindication. There is enough of that right here. Send love, send light, strength and logic. Send it to the President and to all of the Middle East. Ask the God to join with the Goddess in love and protection for her children not hatred and anger. Goddess Be with you all.


I've Been Reading The Thoughts Of Others And It's Been Wonderful To... Sep 13th. at 2:08:30 pm UTC

ldydrk (SLC, Utah US) Age: 26 - Email


I've been reading the thoughts of others and it's been wonderful to feel that I'm not alone in this. That there are so many others out there who understand. I don't feel rage or anger. I feel incredible sadness. I feel pride in those men who gave their lives to end up crashing the plane in a deserted area of PA. I feel sorrow for the people who leapt from the 100th story of the Towers, trying to excape the fire. I feel overwhelming sadness for the families and friends...

I don't see this as an American issue, but as a human issue. A life issue. I understand the rage that so many others feel, even if I don't share in that. I want those who did it to experience justice, to be stopped from doing it ever again, but I don't believe the answer is to bomb an entire country or to lock up or harm Middle Easterners here... killing more innocents will not create balance... only more suffering. I don't want war, but I also don't think turning the other cheek is the answer...

I send my prayers out to the Goddess for healing & justice.


Light A Candle For Unity!though Terrorists May Have Struck Out At... Sep 13th. at 2:08:10 pm UTC

Mary (New York, New York US) Age: 40


LIGHT A CANDLE FOR UNITY!

Though terrorists may have struck out at us as
Americans, let us come together and show our unity. Let
us show that though we may have been hurt, they cannot
dim the light which burns in the hearts of all Americans.

ON THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2001, AT 10:30PM (EASTERN
TIME), 9:30 PM (CENTRAL) AND 8:30PM (PACIFIC), walk out
your door and light a candle or lantern to show the
world that our spirit burns bright. Gather with your
loved ones, friends and neighbors and let your light
burn in the night to show that we are united and that we remain
strong.

Please pass this on to anyone you know. Print it up and
pass it to anyone who may not have Internet access.
Post it on message boards, clubs, news stations -
anywhere and everywhere there are PROUD AMERICANS.


I Am Heartened And Saddened At The Same Time By The Posts... Sep 13th. at 2:03:10 pm UTC

Kila Nightrain (Washington, District of Columbia US) Age: 30


I am heartened and saddened at the same time by the posts I have read on this list. As an American of Muslim descent, I feel traumatized, outraged, hurt by the bombings. By the narrow-mindedness, ignorance of people who would lump all Muslims with these monsters, I am angered and saddened. Islam is a beautiful religion that preaches peace, equality and self-defense. Equating what these people have done with Islam is like equating Timothy McVeigh with all white men. It is illogical and it is wrong.

I agree that we need to bring the people who did this to justice. But adding our hatred to their hatred will solve nothing. Those who celebrate, I feel, have been numbed to humanity. Their lives are taken with impunity and they take other's lives with impunity...thus, life to them is cheap.

Those of you who posted hateful messages about Muslims and Islam, I have this to say to you. Your characterizations are no more accurate or fair than those of the celebrators in the Middle East. Muslims, my family, died in the WTC bombings, Muslims are helping by defending this nation in the military and in the police, they are doctors helping by saving lives. How dare you equate them all with the bombers?! It is the utmost hypocrisy, to pledge the creed "do no harm" and then to turn around and advocate the bombing to smithereens of countries with countless innocent people who probably do not support their leaders.

And for those of you who advocated our taking over of the oil resource rich countries, it is exactly this foolishness that causes people the world over to hate Americans. Please, do us all a favour and try not to reflect the worst of our faults.

As for myself, I pray for the lives lost, I pray in support of the helpers, the peace-makers, and I uphold them as examples of the best of America!


I Saw The Tragedy As Most Of The Rest Of Us Did... Sep 13th. at 2:00:20 pm UTC

dragonfly (St. Petersburg, Florida US) Age: 39 - Email


I saw the tragedy as most of the rest of us did, on TV. Being a news addict, first thing I do on waking is turn on CNN. I saw the hole in the World Trade Center.

I watched the rest in disbelief.

When the first tower collapsed I screamed, then ran outside. I screamed and cried right in the street. People drove by, watching, on cell phones. Some stared. Many were also crying, or looked as if they would.

I live in an urban area. Birds and squirrels immediately began swarming around. Many are tame because neighbors feed them. I cried and cried. More birds and squirrels came.

One blackbird pointed his/her head to the sky. Did it for several minutes. Like myself, s/he kept calling to the sky. Sadly, I missed exactly what s/he was saying. I believe s/he was saying that we must grieve our loss.

Later in the day there was a typical Florida summer downpour. I stood in it. I do all ritual and meditation skyclad, I regretted that I could not stand in the rain in such a manner. And our Mother said "Yes, child, I am here. I am still here. I will remain. Do whatever you can, and ask everyone you know to do whatever they can."

Our Mother is calling all of us, whoever we are, whatever we believe. She is asking for us to heal our world. For it is the world She has provided for us, it is the home we love.

No matter where you are in the world, New York City and Washington, DC are rooms in our home. We have lost thousands of members of our family.

Mother wants us to heal our Earth with our love. She wants us to act. Not in haste, not in anger, not in fear, but in love.

Whatever your practice, it's time to get to work.


It Has Been Two Days Since The Attack On Our Nation And... Sep 13th. at 1:55:42 pm UTC

D'Vynity (Chicago, Illinois US) Age: 27


It has been two days since the attack on our nation and all I can see on the TV and the internet is "We gonna git em!", from our leader, from our government, and from our citizens. Message boards are crammed with violent and militant comments of racism and revenge. Arab Americans, two of whom are friends of mine, are being attacked on the street. The nation thought to be harbouring our number one suspect braces in fear of war.

While those responsible should be brought to justice, the universal notion of "Two wrongs don't make a right" should also be remembered. Of course, try making that expression on a Yahoo board and you are called such charming things as a "pinko sand n****r lover". Bombing a nation off the planet is not the answer, although many would love it to be. The enemy nation and their allies would vow revenge just the same and the whole cycle starts all over again. Unfortunately, if a group is going to keep going until they are indeed destroyed, that is NOT the fault of the nation and their people, but the nation's government if they are harbouring the group.

Another thing I see over and over again is this concept of "evil". The whole deed was "evil", done by "evil" people. There is "evil" human action, not "evil" human beings. We can judge the actions, but we have no right to judge the beings. Those folks celebrating our demise, well, all I have to say is this: they are our enemies, after all, and that doesn't make it any more right and acceptable, but I know quite a few people here in America who, during Desert Storm, who were gleefully cheering for the destruction while wearing their Desert Storm T-Shirts, saying the troops should kill any Arab they see. I, for one, was appalled by this behaviour, as were some of those in the Middle East two days ago. Not everyone on our enemies' soil is dancing in the streets. Even militant Islamic groups are condemning the loss of innocent civilian lives and are offering their regrets. While difficult to do in times like this, to judge an entire race, religion, or group of people on the basis of one extreme group is wrong. It would be like lumping all pro-life supporters into a group of woman-hating, clinic bombers, which some of them are, but not all. Or lumping all Pagans into misconceptions of being Satanic and "evil".

Before anyone goes off half-cocked into "I gonna shoot them down myself!", I suggest a civil and logical regrouping and rethinking. A full-scale bombing is not going to fix anything this soon in the game. The nation and the world are still too freshly wounded from the events only 48 hours ago. We are still too angry. We first need to heal, physically and emotionally, before making an attack, if it is at all necessary. This needs to be a time of mourning those who were lost, remembering their time in this life, and glorifying their passing into the next life, no matter what religion you are. The night of the attacks, I lit my alter and prayed to four goddess, one for each of the planes that went down: Bastet for healing and life, Hera for reencarnation into whatever body one choses, whether spiritual or physical as well as Heaven, Hecate for the Moon, the light in the darkness, as well as her role as a Triple Goddess, and last but not least, Athena, who is not only the goddess of War and Justice, but that of Wisdom, which we will all be needing in the coming months to keep a level head in this touchy and horrid situation. bin Ladin's group is indeed dangerous, make no mistake about that, but what is more dangerous is the fact that we have no idea how many of his supporters are here. If we act in too much haste, we could seriously regret it in the end. This is a time for brains, not braun. If need be, the braun will come later.

I've tried not to step on any toes in this situation, but I've always been raised with the concept of "Give Peace a Chance", and I guess that's what you get when you have hippie parents. I would like to say that others agree with me, but I know those folks are very few and far between in days like these. We are clinging to the ends of the dove's tail and we have heavy rocks around our ankles. Only time will tell if we fall away from her completely, but as of now, our grip is slipping.

Blessed Be


Merry Meet Brothers And Sisters, I Feel Ashamed Of Myself Because Everyone... Sep 13th. at 1:51:31 pm UTC

Freya Faeryheart (Beaver, West Virginia US) Age: 22 - Email


Merry Meet Brothers and Sisters,

I feel ashamed of myself because everyone else is being so patriotic and all I am is terrified.I am so afraid that this will become nuclear or biological, so much so that I constantly shake, cry in the night, and have a huge knot in my stomach.All these horrific scenes replay in my head, the bombs hit, my family dies, exept for my small child who dies slowly from radiation and starvation.This is what I see, and I can't tell if its preminitions or utter fear.I am so afraid its hard to function, I just want to hold my son and cry, or pack up and run.But is anywhere safe?I pray, cast Circles and protection spells and they help for a moment, but the horrible scenes return.No one can give me answers so if anyone has any words of wisdom, I need them now.

Thanks, and Bright Blessings,
Freya Fearyheart.


After The Attacks Tuesday Which Have Left Us All Numbed At Best... Sep 13th. at 1:49:00 pm UTC

Paul D Schreiner (Farmville, Virginia US) Age: 30 - Email


After the attacks Tuesday which have left us all numbed at best, there has been a lot of talk, a lot of very emotional talk about what as a nation and as a people we should do next. How do we respond to a deliberate mass murder of this magnitude? How do we respond to this destruction?

This death?

This hate?

And nearly everyone has understandbly answered the same way: Retribution. Revenge. Kill those who masterminded it, who aided in its implementation, and everyone in between.

More destruction.

More death.

More hate.

Where does the cycle end?

Osama bin Laden, if he is the "one" responsible, is merely a symptom. Take him out, and you offer how many others of like mind to take his place? And with added motivation, to boot?

How does killing the leaders of those responsible ensure that this won't happen again? It doesn't. It only ensures that we won't have a prime suspect next time. We won't know from where the next attack will come.

Exacting revenge will not solve the problems that face the world today. It will not solve the defecit of communication and understanding that make terror not only a viable, but a necessary outlet for people across the world. Only when we learn to listen; to examine ourselves; to understand that we are not the superiors, and that equality, once begun at home, must be shared to have meaning...then we just might start to turn the tide of terrorism.

But it's hard to listen to the small voice of peace when bombs are dropping, and over gunfire.

Remember, in these hard days, that an eye for an eye leaves both parties half-blind.
Remember, and ask yourself what those who have perished would have wanted.
Remember, and ask yourself what kind of world you want to leave to your children.


My Thought Is This.....first Of All My Heart And Prayers Go... Sep 13th. at 1:46:36 pm UTC

scorpius (arlington, Washington US) Age: 36


my thought is this.....first of all my heart and prayers go out to all the families and individuals affected by this act of depravity and destruction.although i am open minded to all the faiths of the world;i find truths in all religions, from buddhism to wiccan.but for the life of me i can not understand the fanatical beliefs of these middle eastern terrorists.what kind of reward is there in nirvana, sugmad, sidharta or with allah for the taking of these innocent lives???i am not a racial profiler but it seems to me that about 80% of all the terrorist activities are conducted by select groups of middle easterners and their respective countries.the battle for the holyland rages on.allah vs. jehovah, right vs. left, dogma vs. schism, hate vs. america.we need to tighten up security at airports, terminal, depots, borders, stations and the like, but not on drugs, but on the weapons and the explosives these cowards use.no persons with known terrorist ties should be admitted to the u.s.any persons with questionable credentials should be detained and screened accordingly.atleast two undercover agents should be on any outgoing or incoming plane to or from the u.s.we need to wipe out these terrorist factions and occupy their oil wells.for what drives most of these countries, crude oil and lots of it.the sale of oil only means more guns, explosives, missles, jets, tanks and ships for terrorist activities;for most opec nations.with the support of other allied democratic countries behind us we should send in our collective militaries to seize their oil wells, occupy their lands and police their government until if and when their leaders and factions can be responsible enough and have some humanity to govern themselves and respect the people of countries abroad.and the gods help us all when these fanatics get nuclear weapons of mass destruction.the countdown to WWIII has begun.....sleep well america


Honor To The Brave Who Perished! The Firefighters, Police And Oher Rescuers... Sep 13th. at 1:42:06 pm UTC

Bjornsdottir (Royal Oak, Michigan US) Age: 40


Honor to the brave who perished! The firefighters, police and oher rescuers, the passengers who found courage to make their deaths heroic sacrifices to prevent further destruction. May they find welcome in the halls of the Aesir and Vanir. May the gods inspire endurance and courage in the hearts of all who search and await news of kith and kin. May all the spirits of places, both lands and waters, arise and stand with us to protect the innocent and drive terror from our shores. Great Thunderer, defender of our homes, and Tyr the Just guide our actions. Let us be just and honorable.


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