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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 6,378,147  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 969

Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Just Want To Remind People That United States Cannot Respond By... Sep 13th. at 12:40:26 pm UTC

kim (shaker heights, Ohio US) Age: 22 - Email


i just want to remind people that united states cannot respond by attacking middle easterners and bombing the whole middle east off the earth. already hospital workers have had to treat middle easterners and muslim because they were attacked by angry people just for being there. remember gaia does not allow revenge but she allows justice justice is find the responsible parties and punish them but not take it out on more innocent people

true peace will prevail


I Personally Myself I Feel American Muslems Should Not Be Harrassed Or... Sep 13th. at 12:37:22 pm UTC

JourneyWalker (Covington, Kentucky US) Age: 17


I personally myself I feel American Muslems should not be harrassed or threatned in anyway, for they did not do anything wrong. Yet thos @#$%^&*@ who were dancing in the streets passing out candy for blowing up the WTC should not have the liberty of any protection. I normally open minded about any religion but I feel Islam is a horrible religion in which war and suicide are sacrements, that is disgusting. I also am gonna keep a prayer in my heart for those families and friends of the victims. Blessed Be!


It Feels Like The 50th Hour Of September 11th, 2001. As An... Sep 13th. at 12:35:29 pm UTC

Brian Eisold (Milwaukee, Wisconsin US) Age: 21 - Email


It feels like the 50th hour of September 11th, 2001. As an American, it is my duty to bare witness to the events that have shaken our Capital, and have shaken "America's City"

I sat in the Student Center of my school, and watched the world trade center fall. I got to the pay phone and called my mother. "Mommy, turn on the television. We are under attack..." It was the first, and only time I was able to cry until nearly now. My mother and my two little brothers live within a Mile of General Mitchell International Airport. At first, she didn't believe me.....who would believe such an insane statement. But from the sound of my voice, she quickly turned on the tv, and saw the horrifying truth.

I watched Peter Jennings from ABC News....Dressed in his suit and tie...bright eyed and determined. By one thirty in the morning, the day had worn on him. I don't remember quite when I fell asleep, but I was woken up by the tv, and the first image I saw....literally, was the first airplane crashing into the WTC.

By night fall, yesterday, I had to make use of a walking cane. My legs were so shaky, and cramped. My eyes have sunk in from hours of watching sorrow. When I fell into my dreamless sleep, I awoke feeling like I hadn't slept at all. I had expected nightmares, but what dream could I have that would be worse than reality. Besides, I can still see the plane crashes. I don't even need to close my eyes, to vividly see what has all occured.

It is mid-day on the third day....no.....it's still September 11th, 2001....and it will be for quite some time.

Goddess Bless America


Hi!this Just Shocked The Whole Free World...how Can We Think... Sep 13th. at 12:24:40 pm UTC

Doctor DooM (Essen) Age: 19 - Email


Hi!

This just shocked the whole free world...
How can we think of exploring space when we still have those problems on
our planet!
I hope they get those %$&/§ and ... (think something up there yourself)

My wishes goes out for all innocent people out there that are among the terrorist that done this.

Till then says
Markus Stehr aka Doctor DooM

(Boardmaster: feel free to correct any mistakes in spelling)


I've Read Some Of The Postings And See A Number Of Calls... Sep 13th. at 12:11:06 pm UTC

Stormeyes (Fort Myers, Florida US) Age: 35 - Email


I've read some of the postings and see a number of calls for healing. That's great and needs to be done, but we have to remember that we in the U.S. are able to be open (somewhat) about our beliefs because others fought and died for our freedom to do so. Now is not the time to preach peace...our nation was built by those willing to die for freedom...do not let the suffering and deaths of Tuesday 9.11.01 be in vain. This was an attack upon FREEDOM, everyones. We who have the power to influence need to use it in the name of world freedom to give strength and support to our government and military in their effort to defeat our common enemy. I can say that as a Pagan and Witch I would gladly give my life for my country. My daughter (a witch, also) has been in Air Force Basic Training since just this Monday. I am very proud of her and all of the pagans who see fit to serve their country in the military. I beseech you all...do everything you can to protect the freedoms that we have come to take for granted. This is not a time for peace, this is a time for justice!


As I Read Threw These Forums A Tear Runs Down My Cheeck... Sep 13th. at 11:48:54 am UTC

Josh Schultz / MoonWolf (Pulaski, Tennessee US) Age: 22 - Email


As I read threw these forums a tear runs down my cheeck and I am filled with sorrow and rage at the same time.
I feel bad for the feelings of rage I have within me, my first thoughts is to bomb them and I feel terrable for thinking that way, I feel like a "Bad Witch", I try to keep a positive perspective but it is so hard, I feel like members of my own family died and Its hard explaining to my children that we are safe. Are we?
As more tears roll down my face this is the first time my children havent been around and ive really been able to cry. All those people... our safty... everything just piles up.
May the God and Goddess protect the innocent when we (the Americans and/or any members of the Alliance) strike back.
I ask you all to burn a white candle on this day and the days to come to help protect the innocent and our troups that will be going over their in retaliation.
It warms my heart to see people from outside the US posting here also, thank you all so much.
I was going to post a short spell to bring criminals to justice however I realized that it COULD be used for negative ends, I am sure all of you have your own spells for the same and I ask that you use them.
Please feel free to contact me at godkarma@yahoo.com if you need someone to talk to or anything at all.

Blessed Be and may the Lady and Lord watch over us all.

MoonWolf


We Thought We Were Safe. We Thought We Were A Superpower, The... Sep 13th. at 11:46:16 am UTC

Chris Hiatt (Greensboro, North Carolina US) Age: 22 - Email


We thought we were safe. We thought we were a superpower, The Superpower, and that nothing could touch us.

And then came the day when the planes fell from the skies...

Thousands of people died that day, some jumping to their own deaths rather than perishing in flames. And a nation's innocence was lost, shattered even as it was shattered at Pearl Harbor one bright day in 1941.

September 11th, 2001. A day which will live in infamy...

We, and all the other nations of the world, were rudely awakened from a dream of peace, and found that our innocence could not protect us, that being a "superpower" didn't mean being safe, and that men willing to die themselves can touch the lives and cause the deaths of anyone.

And yet this newfound vulnerability, even as it frightens us, draws us closer together. We begin to realize that we can't always look out for ourselves; that to survive, we must all look out for each other. And look out for each other we have. Thousands, all over the world, have lined up to offer their help in the form of money, service, and even their own blood. As a nation, as a world, we are beginning to close ranks against a common enemy - the faceless enemy whose name is Fear, and Terror. And as we draw closer to one another, we begin to realize what people who have been through a tragedy together have ever realized - that despite all our petty differences, we are all human. Young and old, male and female, every color of the rainbow; we are all human. We live, and we love, and we fear death, and these things bind us closer than any creed or color or nationality. The terrorists' aims have been thwarted. Seeking to divide us, they have united us. True, they have sown fear in our hearts - but they have also sown determination, and righteous anger, and a pure and burning desire for justice. And that which they have sown, that shall they surely reap.

Blessings,
Chris


Questions: I Wonder Aloud Often, This Time I Will Wonder Aloud With... Sep 13th. at 11:45:18 am UTC

rognaill (texas, Texas US) Age: 26 - Email


Questions: I wonder aloud often, this time I will wonder aloud with my keyboard. I wonder if there are any non-linear historians that have been watching through history books a tale that is very old in the telling. I myself am a big fan of Marija Gimbutas as well as Riane Eisler . Through them I have scoured the bibliographies of their works and have then branched off to be enveloped by the same works they themselves were enveloped by. What I find interesting and relevant to our current situation is this; we are still fighting a war that was never really settled. We all know about the crusades, some have different views of it based on what they were taught about them. Some see them as just causes carried out by just men, others see it as invaders in a land that held many resources and wealth unobtainable by the invaders. We know from history that symbols are strong, they always have been. The repeated mentioning of blood that was pointed out earlier is exactly the right train of thought to apply to this situation.
I am no scholar, I am a hack at best. However if I can see the continuation of a thousands year old blood feud, then I hope that others do as well. The beauty of archeology is that once you dig and find remnants of a civilization, you typically find it to be just one of many sitting on top of each other. This model of layers and layers is also true with finding the root cause of many of our problems. It is striking how we are allied all of a sudden (westerners) under the cause of freedom (but in these societies who is ultimately free). These are the same nations that fought so hard to throw off the yoke of the Roman Empire, only to be conquered ultimately by a clever and more persuasive bullet, the dogma of religion. It is very apparent of the three Abraham religions that they must control the societies in order for them to be effective. And they are good at doing so. Of those three religions, you originally had just two, the third being a manifestation of one of the originals. So taking that into account you can break it down to be just one against the other, to very patriarchal societies fighting to stay dominate. How Europe became the sword of these values is still baffling to me. I believe it will take many lifetimes to figure it out as we have been so blatantly lied to that we have no idea of what is right or what is wrong.
We have seen the same patterns recently develop over and over again, buildup of the west, buildup in the east only to fight it out in places like the Balkans. The meeting point of two worlds, of two ideologies however they share a common interest and that is not the interest of you and me. It never has been, so naturally we resist as you can attest to these postings. However what we see, what we comment the most about here is what people around us are seeing, what they are saying. And that scares us, as we are tribal people acting as a wounded and scared tribe. What a pity that we have evolved in so many ways only to resort to a global level of early thought. I personally am nervous, but then again I thought y2k was going to be a big thing and I look back as to see that being foolish. Why would we fight so much with ourselves when domination has not yet been achieved? The whole y2k thing did not really make sense for me, but that is because there was no history to predict from. However this current situation has been played out many times over, and there is many instances of it, all with similar results. That is what is scary, I think we all on a level some call the ‘folk memory’ or ‘folk genes’ recall this battle, and know its consequences.
We were so close lately, at using a system aimed at taking away our freedoms to enhance them. I expected a backlash, as history for thousands of years has shown, a relative time of art and peace and technological advances and interesting an elevation of the feminine. However that has historically always produced tensions and eventually war, the ultimate justification to lock you in your homes, to keep you under wraps. We just saw that age pass, we are now entering the cycle of war and retribution. Not just against the ideologies across the globe but those within this society as well.
On a very weird plane you can see just at the right angle how this is all orchestrated. Some believe it all is, even if we don’t realize it. Bush might not know exactly what he is doing, I am sure his adrenaline is at all time highs, but I would guess it is because he is in front of the ship that war mongers and patriarchs have been building for centuries. I get butterflies in my stomach just thinking about it myself, take a moment and put you there as well. You realize that you are on the brink, you have gone too far to walk away, to talk more. You must act, the fathers are watching your every move and now is the time to prove to them that all those devotionals, all those times you have said to of given your life to some faceless father, you must not let them down. Strong images and emotion like that are the very pure core of religions, even matriarchal one’s. We perform for we are being watched, monitored. That is religion. That is the power over societies that do the things they have done that we look at and wonder ‘how in the hell did that get allowed to happen’. Why did the people turn against the states that killed and persecuted women in the 1600’s? There wasn’t very many of the black robed ones walking around. They did not carry a sword, only words…
We are hearing a lot of those same words these days on the airwaves, yet we do nothing. I would like to break the cycle myself, but the result as much as we all fantasize about it seems so foreign, so scary.


Ithaca New Yorkunited Pagan Ministries Is Offering Support And Counseling At... Sep 13th. at 11:37:36 am UTC

Rauncie Pelletier (Ithaca, New York US) Age: 40 - Email


Ithaca New York
United Pagan Ministries is offering support and counseling at Cornell University to students and any other persons who may need our support. We are working with the other chaplains at Cornell United Religious works to provide this. There will be a chaplain available at Anabel Taylor Hall at Cornell.

For help or more information please call 607-255-4214

Thank you
Rauncie Pelletier
Lady ButterflyRain
Chaplain
United Pagan Ministries
Cornell University
Ithaca New York


Hi Everyone.iam Sorry That I Havn't Had The Chance To Write... Sep 13th. at 11:25:06 am UTC

Blue Willow (Derby, England, England UK) Age: 19 - Email


Hi everyone.

Iam sorry that I havn't had the chance to write in a fair while. But this has moved me so much, that I thought I'd voice my opinions. I feel very sorry and sympathetic for all the people who are involved in this tragedy. Here in England, all the streets are quiet and yesterday, every one was glued to their TV screens, to watch as the tragic events unfolded. The only people about were those outside electrical stores, to watch the TV's in the windows. People walked about like ghosts, with faces as white as snow, shock abounded then, it may have happened in the States, but as one of our main allies, we all felt for them, in spirit and in thoughts. Many Americans are stranded here, because of flight cancellations, and last night I prayed for the families and people killed in the tragic events.

Myself, I was sent home early from work, as I work for a U.K airline called British Midland. Once we had learned of the story, there was a deathly silence in my offices, and then people started to call relatives and friends in the U.S. Most of us were panic stricken, because buildings here in the U.K had been closed down, such as Canary Wharf, which is one of the tallest bulidings in Europe. We had no idea what was happening, for all we know, our country could be next or even there could be a WW3. All I can remember is looking round the office, and every person I looked at had gone completely white with shock. We were watching the events in the staff room, and really couldn't believe what was happening. Our company decided to give us the rest of the week off, as some people were so grief-stricken.

All the papers here today show the same thing, and it is still all over the news. We as a country have promised to help the U.S in whatever it takes to restore the country to normal. We have problems with terrorist groups over here, but I can't actually say that we have ever witnessed anything as awful as this. These people are sick in the head, how can they have the dignity to kill families and young children, as young as the age of 4? I think that it is terrible, and I wish that the British people could do more to help, but we are pretty much sitting on our hands. We just have to let Tony Blair get on with it. There is nothing that we can say or do to help him. We were grateful for the U.S help in the Gulf War with Saddam Hussain, now it is our turn to help the U.S.

My thoughts and feelings go out to all the people involved in this tragic event. I will be saying a few words for all these people, and I wish everyone well.

Blessed Be,
~*Blue Willow*~


I Have Been Trying To Keep Up With The Many Wonderful Bittersweet... Sep 13th. at 11:22:45 am UTC

Shel (Colorado Springs, Colorado US) Age: 30 - Email


I have been trying to keep up with the many wonderful bittersweet posts here but I just have a quick note......Mercury is going retrograde shortly...this may be a help considering that it is a time for reconsidering, restructuring, rethinking...as long as we don't do anything rash. I pray to Athena for her wisdom and diplomacy to get through this together, that GWBush has his thoughts rational and well considered. That Colin Powell will think long and hard before he ever speaks again.
I feel Loki's hand in this. Does anyone else?

Blessed Be


Hello,my Name Is Tamryn And I Live In Toronto. I Am... Sep 13th. at 11:21:14 am UTC

Tamryn SilverCrow (Toronto, Ontario CA) Age: 34 - Email


hello,

My name is Tamryn and I live in Toronto. I am shocked beyond words over what happened on Tuesday. It sickens me to think that there are those out there that consider this to be justified. My heart goes out to the victims of this horrific tragedy. I also know that the shock of what happened is going to start wearing off and the realities are going to start hitting home to those directly affected by this. In times of great crisis there always seems to be an unlimited supply of strength for those who have to weather through the worst....but when the crisis is over, and there is time to reflect and grasp the ramifications of what has happened...that is when people need the strength the most.

This all being said, I propose that the Pagan community in Toronto gather on Saturday, September 15th at 7:00 to raise healing energy for the victims of this tragedy and their family. The gathering will be at (and wouldn't you know I can't find the name of the park for love nor money) the park just south of Lympstone, which is 1 block south of Yonge and Lawrence on the East side. It is easily accessible by TTC (Lawrence station). (it's the park between Lympstone and Chatsworth on the east side).

I have checked with the various organizations and what is need the most right now is money, so a collection will be set up and taken to the Red Cross to help with the relief efforts.

For those not in the Toronto area, perhaps spread the word and arrange for gatherings in your community at the same time. Lets combine our efforts to raise as much healing energy we can.

As it is starting to get dark earlier now, please bring candles and/or flashlights.

Please pass the word to as many people you can.

Bright blessings
Tamryn SilverCrow


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