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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 20,400,701  

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Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

The Day After--still A Day Of Shock And Heartbreak. Working At... Sep 13th. at 1:32:21 am EDT

Irishmouse (Shelton, Washington US) Age: 57 - Email

The day after--still a day of shock and heartbreak. Working at a VA hospital it was hard to see the shock on patients faces. Anger is coming through now. I want to see the people responsible caught and destroyed. The sleeping tiger is awaking and woe to the enemies of our land. Yet, not undirected anger, but anger at those who think it is the heigth of heroism to kill thousands of innocent people, even people of their own nationality and religion. But not really of their religion because theirs is a perverted version of belief. May the gods strike them quickly as one would put a rabid animal to death because that is what they are, rabid and mad. No sane person would commit the atrocities they have committed.
My love and energy goes out to all the suffering victims of this attack. I can not comprehend the mind of someone who so callously kills. They must be stopped before they do it again. May this not be the start of another war but may the perpetrators all be caught and killed so they may not be able to cause such horror to come upon us again.

After Reading Through A Number Of The Postings Here,i Am Beginning... Sep 13th. at 1:28:46 am EDT

GweFinn Cinnlass (Hokah, Minnesota US) Age: 41 - Email

After reading through a number of the postings here, I am beginning to feel somewhat better.It is wonderful and inspiring to hear the voices of so many supporters, both near and far.I thank you all...

Today Rhiannon's head hangs low.She is weary from her task, but certain that many heros have reached their destiny.My heart goes out to the many rescue workers, both living and at rest..., having ridden in Rhiannon's arms.

* * * * * * *

I have to admit..., I am angry..., I am fearful..., and I am disgusted.

I am angry that my sense of freedom and security has been attacked.

I am fearful that it will not stop, no matter what response is taken.

I am disgusted that this kind of inhumanity can happen at all.

I try to stay informed of world events and the tides of world opinions.I read over regularly, the BBC news, and The Afghan News Center has become a recent addition to my "bookmarks".I feel I have been aware of the hatred towards all things "American", for some time.And yet..., I had no fear.I put faith in the security services of our political machine, and did not fear.

Today I have a very different view, I have seen and can accept the frail balance of our freedom.I may still be angry, but that anger is now directed towards the machine that was supposed to keep our freedom secure.

As a nation, I know that a war is inevitable, a war against an unseen advisary.We will not be fighting against another nation, but against a concept of evil.That's right..., evil.We cannot attribute these acts of violence against us to any one group, or person.Evil resides in the hearts of man, and that is our enemy.

I hear a lot of anti-islamic voices, and more after these latest occurances.But to blame all of "them" is an absolute error.There have been many peaceful voices in their ranks.Voices that have preached tolerance, love for all humanity, and the end to violence.The irony of Yusaf Islam's(Cat Stevens) "Where do the Children Play?" was not lost on me today when I reminded myself of this fact.

Muhammad preached more than "Jihad", he also preached tolerance, but his words have been twisted by the fanatics that use them as means to their own ends.To fight for what you believe in is an admirable trait, and a lesson for us all.We must embrace this concept and hold it above us as we fight for the freedom of all mankind.

Wars are not waged for the living, or the dead, but for the future.Let us not act hastily out of anger towards the innocent.It is the slow and steady warrior that wins the war.He may suffer blows in the battle, but a faith-filled firm resolve is his aid towards the winning of the war.Unfortunately, our enemy already knows this.They too fight for a future and do not fear death to gain it.

There are two ways to vanquish an enemy;

1.Eliminate them through might.

2.Embrace them with right.

Let us pray that our choices are fair and just...

My 12-year-old Daughter Asked To Go To A (non-religious) Peace Rally... Sep 13th. at 1:25:55 am EDT

Runesdatter (Portland, Oregon US) Age: 32 - Email

My 12-year-old daughter asked to go to a (non-religious) peace rally that her friend's parents are attending tonight, and I told her no. I explained that the people who committed this deadly violence *must* have justice done to them--and that justice is unlikely to be "peaceful"--or they will continue to kill innocent people with cowardly acts. Karma *will* happen, but earthly justice should be pursued as well.

The Muslim *extremists* (for I know the Islamic faith is not normally violent) who are suspected to be responsible for this atrocity already see the US as weak & godless; they have nothing but contempt for our lives and our varied faiths. NO peace rally is going to do right by the memory of the hundreds killed, the mothers & fathers & children (according to CNN, a 2-month-old baby was on one of those hijacked planes). I explained that these terrorists almost certainly acted against the US partly because of their religious beliefs, and that we can't condone religious intolerance that encourages anyone to kill in the name of God!

I have relatives (Pagan and non) in the US Armed Forces; I would worry about them if the US goes to war, but I will also be immensely proud of their patriotic service. If the US Congress declares war against a nation which has aided & abetted these terrorists, our family will support that action. So no, I won't allow my children to attend a "peace rally" where acts of justice are condemned because they might be violent.

My 9-year-old daughter asked me last night what we could do...I explained that I already had made an appointment to donate blood next week, and we could also light a candle together. So together we lit a candle dedicated to strength and love for the victims & their loved ones, and for justice to be done to the terrorists.

Freedom is a privelege, not a right. All the freedoms of this nation, including freedom of religion, have been paid for with the lives of our forefathers and mothers. Those who will not fight for their freedoms shouldn't complain when they lose them!

I Sit Here In Anchorage Alaska And Know That The People Here... Sep 13th. at 1:21:44 am EDT

onekrystalynn (Anchorage, Alaska US) Age: 26 - Email

I sit here in Anchorage Alaska and know that the people here who are so very far away from all that has happened both in distance and in time (being that we are an hour ahead of the apcific time zones, most of us literaly woke up to this news)send thoughts and prayers. With us being so very far away we can not readily send support as we found out what was going on airlines were grounded and it takes four hours to just fly to Seattle, otherwise I'm sure we would do more, i know many would want to.

In the past i know that alot of us are closet pagans; who hopefully will feel able to come forward as a community to possible DO something, if nothing else to help "shield" some of the oil products that we send to the states.

I sit and hear of the brave souls in the cities dealing with crumbling and collapsing buildings and my heart goes out to all of them. It hits alittle close to home as my father is a retired police offier and i know a few of the men in uniform here in town, i understand their fears that go so unspoken, and i understand their drive. I feel a little helpless not from the actions of the people who wish to cast fear and hate, but from the fact that I am unable to at least offer my strenght to help shift through the rubble.

I know that i am going to get together with a few of my "solitare" freinds to see if we can entice the closet society of pagans to group together and see if there is something we can DO to help if nothing else send hope, love and understanding to sites so very far away.

Go in peace, dear friends who have fallen and be embraced into the mother's arms and may she shelter you until it is your time to return.

It Is Tough To Keep A Lightheart At Times Like These. As... Sep 13th. at 1:10:08 am EDT

Snow Owl (Charlotte, North Carolina US) Age: 24 - Email

It is tough to keep a lightheart at times like these. As a Unitarian Pagan, I find myself torn between what is "right" and what is "wrong." To be honest, there is no no "right" or "wrong" anymore when it comes to feelings. The words have no meaning to me anymore when it comes to feelings. I feel deep within the people responsible, that means the Bin Laden, as well as his haborers, need to be dealt with in the most harsh way possible. I feel we need to let the world know that the United States of America will not stand for this, and neither will the countries who stand behind us. It literally makes me ill watching the pictures from Afghanistan with people dancing in rejoice for our despair. I have hardly been able to eat, sleep, or function like I normally do. For this point on out, my life, my views, my ways of thinking, and the way I conduct my life, will never be the same again. It feels so far, as if I am still inside a derranged Die Hard movie. It does not seem real yet, but I know logically it is. I am angry, I am confused, I am sad, I am hurt, and I am so tired of this bull crud! I do not feel any religion or spirituality out there is more right than the other. This is not a time of separation of the religions, this is a time of coming together and healing. I feel overall, good things will come out of this in the end of it (whenever that might be). I feel this will heal our religious and spiritual differences, and truly head us in the directions the Age of Aquairus has in store for us. Christians, Jews and many more, along side Pagans, are coming together in prayer and healing. This is heading us in the right direction now as a nation, and a people! But until we are all calmed down and begin this work after the mourning, I will sit back and try to make sense of all this, and force some food down my throat so I am able to stay alive.

May we all heal soon! May our anger transform into healing energy for the world and universe soon!

Blessings and Peace!

When I Woke Up September 11th I Didn't Realize That From The... Sep 13th. at 1:08:34 am EDT

Christie (Chickasha, Oklahoma US) Age: 19 - Email

When I woke up September 11th I didn't realize that from the moment the first of the World Trade Center Towers was hit my world would be unalterably changed. I can't imagine the sheer hatred and rage that would cause anyone to kill so many in cold blood. I don't want a war. I want justice. Justice is such a funny word because in some cases it's just a glorified word for revenge. I have never thought of myself as ever wanting to see anyone hurt. However, I think the OKC Bombing was the only other time I have ever wanted to see somebody pay for what has been done so much. When I woke up this morning I realized--I don't recognize the world any more because the world has gone crazy. In a world gone mad all we can rely on are our families, our friends, and our faith. I'm angry and scared and all I can ask is that true justice be served and that we all pray for peace. May the Great God and Great Goddess watch over us all...

I Have Been Praying And Crying And Asking The Lord And Lady... Sep 13th. at 1:04:35 am EDT

Northstar (Sacramento) Age: 44

I have been praying and crying and asking the Lord and Lady to send love and comfort. As I was meditating yesterday I tried to visualize a pinpoint of white light, God and Goddess energy, going to each of the victims and their families. I am newly exploring Wicca and Meditation, but I gave it all my heart.

If any of you has lost someone dear, I ask the Lord and Lady and your memories of that loved one to give you strength. Every tear that has been cried is for you personally.

Northstar in Sacramento

As Requested By My Dear Friend, Jenne, I Am Cross-posting A Reply... Sep 13th. at 1:04:12 am EDT

Mavelle (DFW area, Texas US) Age: 26 - Email

As requested by my dear friend, Jenne, I am cross-posting a reply to a military friend in our online pagan forum. Mainly, I had trouble expressing myself about what occured, until I responded to our friend Glenn.

* * *

Excuse the Xianese, but Amen Sister. You so said it. And I want everyone here to see that, it's not our silence that will heal is our expression and our words. By speaking out and getting our feelings out in the open, we can begin to understand the filth the outrage the utter despair that is churning in our collective minds.

You kicked ass in that little article you just wrote, Ma--and I wish you'd send it in to like witch's voice or something--it's eloquent and well-put. War is bad--war is not good. But it's a necessary tool. And as animals (and yes, I do believe we are animals), we have our own instincts and behaviors. Unfortunately, violence is one of them. But we are also divine enough to realize that the violence should be as well placed as possible...and I think it needs to be placed directly on the asses of the perps. Simple as that.

Brava, m'dear. You spoke like a born speech writer--perish the thought, I know.

More huggles (you sound like you need them--and I do, too! ;))


--- In astral-chat@y..., "Komadori" wrote:
> Glenn, my prayers go also to you and your new family and to my
> brother and his family, as well as all U.S. military families. When
> the president says "war" it is very different from a citizen
> saying "war" as you know. This is a very different war with different
> strategies, but we cannot exclude the possibility of our brothers and
> sisters in the military, will fight and die for the liberty we have
> often taken for granted.
> I hate war. But I know that so does everyone else on this list. I
> hate also the fact that other pagans have and will continue to lift
> their noses to our pagan brothers and sisters in the military. They
> do not understand.
> We are human. We are not perfect. We are a part of nature, and we are
> predators, not just gatherers. We can choose to be vegetarian, but we
> are not by birth. As omnivores, this is our natural heritage. With
> cogniscience comes the matured versions of our instinctual nature.
> War is brutal, but sometimes it is necessary in order to protect the
> values we hold so dear. I hate it, but this is how life is.
> Not on this list, but on another, someone didn't think we should go
> to war.
> I think we should. I like to think myself a pacifist. I don't see
> myself harming someone, much less killing them. Perish the thought!
> But I cannot say what I would do would my life or the lives of my
> loved-ones and innocents be endangered.
> Not only were lives of innocents endangered yesterday. They were not
> only taken, but STOLEN. The lives are gone forever, even if you
> believe in reincarnation: each incarnation is like a snowflake. Each
> moment of each life is unique. There are tens of thousands, I feel,
> of unique innocent lives that were taken, and countless families
> broken.
> I lost my father to a massive heartattack without warning, back
> in '97. Little children, teenagers, and adults all lost their
> fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, ect ect ect: all to these
> suicidal thieves who have twisted a beautiful religion to their
> designs as excuses for the hatred they have grown up with and
> harvested.
> If we react with our instincts, we will be no better than them. If we
> react lilylivered and yellowbellied, we will disgrace the lives that
> were stolen and it WILL continue. It happened in '93, it happened
> again. There is a pattern. We simply must nip this hatred in the bud,
> and though I cannot stand the president personally, I agree with him
> on this issue.
> Throughout this ordeal, images of Waco kept coming to mind. The fact
> that someone can twist faith to such a level. It is frightening and
> sickening. I do not know, but I think that this cake cannot be
> unbaked, as far as the mental outset.
> I also am a bit more stable inside (I looked stable outside, but was
> shaken within, yesterday) today, as I go to work on the 16th floor of
> a highrise outside of downtown, working my job within a
> financial institution's office. Even still, when I look outside, I
> can visualize what it might have looked like, and it pains me to
> think how brutal the occurence of how these people died.
> I hope and pray that survivors will continue to be found within the
> rubble. I feel selfish for worrying that my brother will be sent
> should the warfare escalate to something more... traditional.
> It's funny. I couldn't find the words just an hour or so ago. I think
> the dam just blew. I'll leave it there, though, I guess. I still feel
> that nothing I can say really says it though. And on second thought
> of that, I think that's good. I really wouldn't want a word or
> expression to exist in language for what I feel. I don't want to feel
> this way again, nor for anyone else.
> Blessings and Love,
> -Mavelle

I Am Totally Devastated! As A Small Child I Grew Up With... Sep 13th. at 1:02:09 am EDT

ottersong (everett, Washington US) Age: 64 - Email

I am totally devastated! As a small child I grew up with the fears of WW2, as a teen it was losing friends in Korea, Then the cold war where we all just knew that we were going to be nuked at any time, then came Nam and its horrers, IS THIS TO NEVER END? As we are Witches it is time to put a binding on anyone who is a known terrorist, whether foreign or domestic. It is time to stop the terrorists and violence against all of us and GAIA our mother and our very life blood. These sorts of people do not give a second thought to what the ultimate outcome of a world war COULD be.

If there is someone out there who is good at organizing and is knowledgeable about the web, Maybe you would consider a worldwide timezone organization of Witches to do a major binding upon these individuals. We have the power and knowledge to do this now that we have the "net"Maybe Fritz and Wren will help out with this endeavor.

The Terror Is Hard To Accept... Or Even To Believe. I Lit... Sep 13th. at 12:59:18 am EDT

MoonFyre (Thousand Oaks, California US) Age: 41 - Email

The terror is hard to accept... or even to believe. I lit candles to pray for the victims, the survivors, the dead and the living. I pray for us all. I pray for justice and for peace. But if there is vengeance to be had, let it be swift and true. So Mote it Be.

Lord & Lady, God & Goddess... protect us all.

Moonbeam, My Heart Is Heavy And My Soul Is Sick My Mind... Sep 13th. at 12:14:14 am EDT

Moonbeam (clearlake , California US) Age: 15


MY heart is heavy and my soul is sick my mind is reeling and all I can do is pray. I am fromnew york and these tragedies have hit home for me. I cry and preay for everyone involded to recovermand the ones we have lost be protected and cherished beyond the veil. May the Goddess and God bless them and protect the world from any such tragedy recurring. I HATE NO ONE RESPONSIBLE BUT HAVE PITY ON THEIR TARNISHED SOULS FOR THE KARMA THEY'VE COLLECTED WILL DAMN THEM FOREVER.


I wrote this poem in hope that these words and these tragedies can change us.

Smeared mascara.

Pale cold faces,

tired and pained,

dead of ay emotion.

Depressed with life.

Only sadness and sorrow.

Too much life

Too much death.

The attacks, murders and abuse.

Makes me hurt.

Makes me confused.

Just wanting to sleep,

to make up a world.

No violence on the sreets.

BUt ten I wake up.

Reality waits for you.

HOpe disenagrates in front of you.

Laying on bed.

Tired and sorry.

Sad you woke up,

Your face cold and pale.

Insecurity fills the room.

tears fill your eyes.

what reality is,

Smeared Mascara

Love everyone, thats the only way anything cna get fixed.
Goddess bless all.

My Family In The Craft:i Am Shocked That Our Country Has... Sep 13th. at 12:04:30 am EDT

April Rich aka Morrigan Kali RavenFire (Sylacauga, Alabama US) Age: 20 - Email

My Family in the Craft:

I am shocked that our country has been attacked such as it has. I am afraid for my family and even for those who I do not know. It saddens me to see such acts of hate in the world.

I have never been a patriotic woman. But, I flew my American Flag yesterday and today. It flies in memorial of all those who have lost loved ones due to such a horrible act. I

I will cast a shield spell over our country during the Dark Moon. I have also lit a candle and sent energy to those who need it. I hope everyone else will do the same.

Give blood. It is a great way to help those in need of it. I hate doing it, but it is needed.

Blessed Be,
April Rich aka Morrigan Kali RavenFire
Sylacauga, Alabama

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