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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 17,208,868  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 153

Lurker/Post Ratio: 214 to 1

Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003

How Do You Feel About War?

‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC

Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’

And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?

Do your political leanings influence how you feel?

Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?

 Reponses:   There are 153 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

War As A Last Resort? Jan 23rd. at 6:17:39 am EST

lilchickentoo (Washington state) Age: 56 - Email

War should be a last resort to protect our country/freedom/people. The real question to me is, "what is a 'last resort'"? I was born after WWII, was in kindergarten when the Korean War started, had to hide under my desk in the second grade for "atomic bomb drills", was in high school when the war in Vietnam started, and had just about given up on humanity when the Gulf War came along.....what is a LAST RESORT? We never wait long enough to find out. Should we wait? We waited too long before 9/11/01 and the Twin Towers fell down; the Pentagon was blitzed. But there's nothing to be gained by bombing Iraq except another feather in our cap (or scalp for our belt). And isn't that what war has come to be about? And if it is, wouldn't it be nice if we'd be honest about it? Sooner or later, if we don't stop wars completely, humans won't be around to contemplate the question....

Treat Others As You Would Have Them Treat You?!?! Jan 23rd. at 3:20:53 am EST

Shadowflame (Norwich) Age: 19 - Email

How can a bunch of christians go to war when they have a statement in the bible that says ' treat others as you would have them treat you '??!?!?!?

I really don't get it!

Are they saying they want Iraq to turn round and make war on them?

HARM NONE Jan 23rd. at 3:11:39 am EST

lifeloving (earth) Age: 27 - Email

call yourself a wiccan? then why refute the one wiccan rede? all of the great teachers and truths in humanity's existence have taught one path - the path of peace. i am tired of so-called christians who declare war, in direct opposition to their teacher, a pacifist. no better are pagans who would harm when none has harmed them.

The Time For Talk Has Ended, They're Getting Ready To Go! Jan 23rd. at 12:31:01 am EST

Odin (Anacortes, WA) Age: 47 - Email

Greetings all,

As I reported in an earlier post, the Navy's Intruders (the first Military Aircraft that enter a military target) are buzzing the skies of Anacortes, WA as I type. And this is to report that it has been over 10 hours now since they started. The skies over Anacortes are like a War Zone. Clearly the time for talk has ended, and the time for action is just moments away. This War is going to happen. The proof is in the skies tonight over my peaceful City. I and my neighbors know that when the skies do get quiet it's because they are on their way.

(Here comes another Intruder!) They never practice at night like this, and in the rain, and let alone with such force of thrusting their powerful engines racing across the skies, some have even made my windows shake! Everytime an Intruder passes (here comes another one!!) you can't help but feel so very proud of our Military. The time for the People's Opinions and the Politicians Debates has absolutely concluded! The matter has now been given to our Military for they wouldn't be putting these aircraft in the dark and very dangerous rainy skies tonight (also placing us in danger of an accident) if not in prelude of a serious mission. For my neighbors and I, we understand that they are using the street lights of the City of Anacortes as target practice, preparing for their flight missions to Bagdad. And it doesn't matter if they keep this up all night because we are so very proud that our City is assisting in their training to take out ground-to-air missles in Bagdad. (Here comes another one, oh brother is this one traveling hard, and another one right behind the first, THEY JETS ARE LOUD!!, IT'S 9:25pm PST).

This is Odin, reporting from Anacortes, WA, with great pride of our City's use as Bagdad Target Practice for a now VERY REAL WAR that we are tonight experiencing in Anacortes, WA. And to all our Armed Forces may the Heavens be with you, and may each of you return home safely.


War. What Is It Good For? Jan 22nd. at 9:55:38 pm EST

Coyo (Maine) Age: 33 - Email

Since I heard that the United States government had decided to pursue a course of action that would lead toward a war with Iraq, I began my fight. Yes, I am one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who has become involved with the anti-war movement. Although finances and distance have kept me from going to Washington D.C., I was there in spirit.
This is not a war against Saddam Hussein. This is a war to take control of another country and to begin (or continue) on the U.S govt's path toward total world domination. Our "president" has been rumored to want to be "dictator for life", a thought, however fanciful, scares me silly. He and his cronies are interested in the oil in Iraq. And since sanctions have failed to either starve Hussein out or provoke an unprising, our government believes that we are forced into attacking a 3rd world country to get our way.
Oh, and 9/11? While it cannot be proven, I believe that our government had a hand in that somehow. The records are destroyed and the lives lost, but the truth will out, eventually. But the facts show that Afghanistan was blocking a major oil pipeline (being built by Haliburton, a company CEOed by our Vice President). Stand up against the U.S. and what do you get? You get levelled.
I urge all pagans, heathens and others to listen, look, read and think. The truth is out there. Don't listen to the mainstream media, they are controlled by the government and the big corporations. Ask yourself, "Would the god or goddess I worship want more innocents to die for greed?" I think that you will find the answer.
Blessed be
Pax Vobiscum
Coyo Desertbloom Link to More info related to this post -- HERE

Let Us Think About This ... Jan 22nd. at 9:06:57 pm EST

American Pagan (Missouri) Age: 26 - Email

There are many questions that need to be answered. Why did the US government give weapons to Saddam durring the Iraq war with Iran? Why did US government help install a dictator in Iran and fuel this conflict further? Why did the US give Saddam permission to obtain a Kuwait oilfield and once he entered Iraq we went screaming into the gulf in the name of peace. Why did the US govt get involved with Kuwait and not Rowanda where thousands were murdered durring genecide? Why did the US government fabricate stories about Kuwait babies being thrown out of incubators by Iraq soldiers?

The reasoning that we should attack Iraq to boilster the economy is one of the sickest excuses I have ever heard. It is a disgrace to have brave American's forfeit their lives for money. As a Pagan I hold to harm none unless self defense is necessary. The UN inspectors are not done. Bush is'nt even waiting until they are done. There is no proof that Saddam poses a threat. And how do we expect the Iraq people to overthrow a dicatator if they have no food, clean water, or medical care?

Before Pagans bang the war drum, they need to remember our religion is one that teaches responsibility above all else. Take the time to listen to those who are in Iraq working with its people. Listen to their stories of starvation and disease caused by the sanctions. No one deserves that. Just because Pagans strive to observe the laws of nature by no means give us the right to prey on the weak of another nation. Harm None.

This has ceased to be a war on terrorism. A war to end events like 9/11. It has become a case of global greed and I will follow the idea of "The Truth Against the World" because what is popular isn't always right.

My Thoughts Jan 22nd. at 8:28:11 pm EST

Rhaspody Cleaver (Here where ever that is) Age: 16 - Email

My Thoughts on war. Ever sence before the Spartans, the human race has had wars. Its nothing new. many would argue that the animal kingdom has no war, but that as well is false. Watch the ants one day and you might just see one such war. Now, I am not saying war is correct. I abhore war. But it is sadly in the nature of many things, including the human race. Everyone I have encountered have each delt with war in diffrent ways, but one thing remains the same. They deal.
This too is human nature. To adapt. War is a horrible thing. It kills many, but the death toll is nothing compared to the amount of lives it touches. War can be prevented, but not for long.

Those are my thoughts. sorry they are bemuttled a bit.
Best wishes for peace,
Rhaspody Cleaver

All The More Reason Jan 22nd. at 3:37:09 pm EST

Wade Shell (Fort Benning, Ga) Age: 40 - Email

The fact is that the United States government has chosen to send 150,000 some soldiers, sailors and airmen to the region. In the near future we will probably be experiencing another war in the gulf. So, the question is not "if" war, but "why" war. One cannot ask the young men and women being sent over there, because there would be 150,000 different answers to that question.

However, I think that there can be some generalities made of the various players in our great country. The national leaders are probably wanting the war to expand control of our influence in the region. If you think it's oil...think again. A war with Iraq will make oil prices higher by temporarily limiting production and distrobution throughout the region. Many of the pro-war factions, usually refered to as "right wingers", are in favor because it will boost the overall economy for a time. Those clear thinking humanitarians will, no doubt, remember the suffering of the Iraqi people, and realize that removing the dictator will only make life better. The left wing factions are benefitting as well. Many small socialist groups are experiencing noteriety by staging demonstrations with the gullible people, including some silly celebrities. So, the overall take is that there can be no clear cut reason to abstain, or engage on conflict.

We all must decide for ourselves if the price will match the benefits. As a soldier in the Army with nineteen years of service in the infantry, I do not believe any stretch of sand is worth a single soldier. But, for all the "right" reasons; expanded influence, boosted economy, easing suffering, I will lead my soldiers into the combat zone knowing that it is the "right" thing to do.

It's Coming Soon! Jan 22nd. at 3:17:42 pm EST

Odin (Anacortes, WA) Age: 47 - Email

Greetings all,

This is not a response or opinion per se. It is a fact that I live just 20 miles from Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, HOME OF THE INTRUDERS (military aircraft that takes ourt SANDS, that's enemy ground missles that kill our U.S. Aircraft to those of you that do not know.) About every other day, the Intruders fly their training paths, and we that live nearby have grown very use to the sounds of their engines. We live with it almost everyday, and they have become just a natural part of our surroundings as the wind, or the trees, UNTIL TODAY.

The sounds of the engines which started about an hour ago 11:am PST on January 22, 2003 have changed, they are now practicing with full trottles very low, and very close to the City, and one just buzzed over my house making the windows shake. Saddam, you are about to get your ass kicked, and may our proud armed forces put you in the ground this time.


Re: Unless You Have Lived It SHUT UP Jan 22nd. at 2:30:12 pm EST

Tina Horn (Washington, DC/Columbia, MD) Age: 35 - Email

Sean, I have to disagree with you. You're right, at the absolute moment of a firefight, there's no room for thinking. I can't imagine what that must be like and will take your word for it.

However, to imply that those who do not have experience of war do not have rights to have opinions about it is disrespectful. That would be like women opining that men, who will never get pregnant, have no right to have opinions about the abortion debate.

With respect,


War Is Hell...But... Jan 22nd. at 1:17:19 pm EST

Belfire (Pennsylvania) Age: 40 - Email

As long as there are people in the world that feel they are of a higher importance and power than the rest..Our planet will be at war. This is proven through-out history. But..if you look at nature, only the strong survive.. unfortunately our idea of "strong" is not the same as Mother Earth
Back in the 80's I had the "privledge?" of being directly involved in the "gadhafi Raid" (wasn't even called a war) After our bombing mission (in which his child was killed) we came back to the United States to hear "Baby Killers!" Yes, it hurt tremendously as no one ever wants to hear of a child's death/murder..But...The populace in "those" countries are taught from very young to Hate the United States.
Next time you see an innocent childrens' movie, Barney (that silly purple dinno) or Mickey Mouse..Stop and think for a minute..sadam (will not capitalize) brainwashed his own children (from a very yound age) with videos of severe torture, graphic, bloody, painful slow violence, which he inflicted on his own people..and was proud of it.
We have been very successful, throughout the years, in keeping our country free. Since 9-11 (I still have the message on my answering machine, from my Fiance..He was 1/2 block away) we are in jeopardy of loosing that to power hungry lunatics (and I include our own leaders in that statement) We as human being need to pay attention..instead of just LALALA through life..make our leaders accountable for their actions, question them (they are not gods!!!)
War is Hell..and NO the sound effects are not great!! That is just a way for our service people to "get through it"..ALIVE!!!
Am I for war..No!! a neccessary evil..mmmmm..Yes :(
White Light surround our service men and women.
Please pray for them..they need it...from someone that knows

Unless You Have Lived It SHUT UP Jan 22nd. at 1:15:10 pm EST

Sean (USA and Canada) Age: 35 - Email

Unless any of you have had to kill or be killed shut up. Thats what I have to say, because on the ground in a fight there are two things you know and thats fear and the will to live. Doesnt matter what you believe or what Politics you have back home. If some one starts shooting at you you will shoot back.
There is no time to think or to talk. there is just time to move from one place to the next and hope they dont move faster then you.

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