The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Nov. 17, 2002
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Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000
The Unresolved US Election
Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?
| Reponses: There are 263 responses posted to this question.
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| Greetings~~! I Did Vote And I Feel Strongly That All Pagans Should... ||Nov 20th. at 5:22:15 pm UTC|
|Tristan (West Palm Beach, Florida US) ||Age: 46 - Email |
I did vote and I feel strongly that ALL Pagans should vote. My personal opinion is that Bush is very dangerous to the Pagan community with his strong ties to the christian Right. He has already said he does not consider Wicca a real religion and they should not have legal rights. He feels Wiccans religious rights should be removed!
As to the Non-Election: it is a great impetus for the American people to finally band together and demand that we remove the Electoral college and use strictly the popular vote. In the late 1700's when almost none of the population had any higher education and there was barely any media to speak of, most people had no knowledge of any of the political process or who was running and/or what they stood for. Due to that real "ignorance", the legislature enacted the Electoral college to ensure that the political process was not left in the hands of an ignorant population--and that was wise at the time!
Today, with the high level of education and media information--the masses are VERY well informed and we no longer need the Electoral college to protect us from ourselves~~~it has to be abolished!
| I Voted For Nader & The Green Party. It Scares Me To Death... ||Nov 19th. at 4:46:44 pm UTC|
|Ebha Ruadh (Sandston, Virginia US) ||Age: 36 - Email |
I voted for Nader & the Green Party. It scares me to death to think of either of the other two in office. Our country is not really a democracy. It is run by two major parties(both of whom are controlled by extreme Christian views) who try to bully the smaller parties off the block. Whichever yahoo finally wins the presidency, we Pagans will find ourselves looking over our shoulder for the next persecuter. I would like to think that in my lifetime I will be able to practice my religion openly with my family, but, I fear that the mainstream Judeo/Christian religions will not let that happen. They will continue to back the political puppets, filling their empty little heads with satanic rubbish that unfortunately most people are all to happy to ignorantly believe. As always we have an up hill battle because most people don't want the truth they want comfort and we represent total chaos to their narrow world view.
Ebha Ruadh - Sandston, VA
| Merry Meet ...i Wanted To Vote For Nader...i Didn,t I... ||Nov 19th. at 1:26:17 am UTC|
|STANDINGBEAR (VENICE , Florida US) ||Age: 43 - Email |
MERRY MEET ...I WANTED TO VOTE FOR NADER...I DIDN, T I VOTED FOR GORE TO ME HE WAS THE LESS OF TO EVILS ....BUT NADER GOT HIS MONKEY WRENCH IN THE POLITICAL WHEELS AND IT GROUND TO A HALT...LOL ...FROM SW FLORIDA... STANDINGBEAR
| I Voted Green Party For The Last 2 Elections Because I Am... ||Nov 18th. at 10:10:13 pm UTC|
|Renee Meyer (Yonkers , New York US) ||Age: 36 - Email |
I voted Green Party for the last 2 elections because I am sick of the same old crap and also find living in a so called democracy controlled by only two corporate owned parties frightening. I think both candidates should be fighting to make sure those people, who now have to take legal action to have their vote recognized or who was denied access to the polls due to disinformation, are allowed to cast or recast their votes correctly. If they dont stand behind the rights of the citizens they plan to lead for the next 4yrs I dont think either can be an effective leader. For me there will always be an added distrust over and above the usual distrust people have for politicians. I wish more people would vote for parties other than Democrat or Republican just to send a message that we are watching and we are not happy. I cant stand when people say they are voting for the lesser of two evils, thats sad at the very least and sick thinking or lack of thought at the very worst. This is a democracy not a popularity contest and people should always use their vote as their voice...so what if your a registered Democrat if your not happy with them say so with your vote. Just look at how afraid of Ralph Nader both parties were to the point they actually tried to get him to drop out of the race, bar him access to media coverage, etc. Democracy is a fragile thing, take a look at Chile's or Haiti's recent history, so we should'nt ever get to comfortable about the stability of our own political system ...the JFK assasination is the perfect example (sorry to use it again) since to this day we dont really know weather or not it was a perfectly planned and executed (pardon the pun) Coup. As a minority community we all know "ignorance" is not "bliss" it is dangerous and apathy is a tragedy waiting to happen. The ignorance and/or apathy of otherwise decent citizens through out our worlds history has led to the deaths of millions when they ignored the warning signs that their leaders were getting out of control. Usually minority communities are the 1st to suffer but look out when they'er done there...who is next under the steam roller. We need to let Washington know we are paying attention by voting and writing our Reps...It -is- our political system, use it or lose it.
| Hi, All!; I Noticed Twv Set 501c3 As The Reason They Do... ||Nov 17th. at 11:09:59 pm UTC|
|Tarostar (Toronto, Ontario CA) ||Age: 58 - Email |
I noticed TWV set 501c3 as the reason they do not endorse any particular candidate, as the IRS code requires.
However, have you noticed xtian televangelists do, however, suggest to their
"congregations" who would be acceptable in office?
Candidates go to churches to speak.
Yet, no-one sees the violation of that IRS code when it comes to them.
Pat Robertson and Fallwell & Co. get away with it because no challenges are ever taken to court in the form of complaints.
Those members of the public do not have tax-exempt status, so the idea just does not occur to anyone to complain about those who do who also politic.
Since churches (xtian ones) do politic, then why are they not forced to pay taxes? If they paid a large share, as their income would warrant, then they would have a right to campaign for a candidate.
They get a free ride in this respect, as no-one wants to be the grinch who forced the Govt. to enforce its own rules upon churches violating the IRS code.
So, if no complaints are lodged against xtian churches in violation, what makes you think the Govt. would beat up on a small Pagan group advocating a candidate?
I say a pox on all the churches and tax the shit out of them. BB Tarostar
| The Eyes Of The World Are On Us... I Live In Broward... ||Nov 17th. at 7:04:21 pm UTC|
|Eli (Fort Lauderdale, Florida US) ||Age: 18 |
THE EYES OF THE WORLD ARE ON US... I live in Broward County, Florida, one of the counties doing a manual recount. I checked my ballot over very carefully, making sure I had punched every correct hole and although I had never heard the word "chad" I did make sure there were no hanging tabs. Despite that, other factors can unnecessarily cause votes to be rejected, such as mishandling by the poll workers, or in some cases when people are given pencils to sign with instead of pens, two things clearly not their faults. If a manual recount gives us a better estimate of who won an election, then let's always do it everywhere, put enough people on it and we could manually count every ballot in days. I'm not saying totally negate the mechanical system, but use it to get more speed when an overwhelming victory makes the hand-counting process basically a formality, and call those areas and those races, but recount everywhere by hand regardless of who won or by how much, and only call those areas where the hand counts are exceptionally unlikely to turn the outcome. If this means we can't actually call some states for days, well, we had that problem anyways so problem did the mechanical system alone avoid in that? Do them both together, using the mechanical recount to determine the likelihood of the winner but the manual count as the final standard, and have unimpeachable standards for recounting the ballots. At the same time, let's get rid of all these different and confusing ballots and come up with a universal ballot setup that even an illiterate, blind, enderly, infirmed, or slightly retarded could understand and easily use. I suggest a system in which you place your votes on a touch screen and get to review and thrice confirm your votes before they go through. We also need I think special ballots, polling booths, maybe even whole special polling centers for the handicapped. Still other changes to our system will certainly be necessary, but as American citizens we need an unimpeachable election process, none of this "Oh, this is just the type of thing that happens in close elections" attitude. In Broward I voted for Al Gore, and in yet another race uncalled for similar reasons Elaine Bloom, but even if I had voted for George W. and Clay Shaw, I would still demand that every step be taken to ensure my vote be counted. On another issue, we can not tolerate these instances of black and elderly Jewish voter intimidation. For authorities, policeman and poll workers and others, to intimidate minorities because they know who they will vote for is quite clearly a capital offense. Let's get this done so that the world watching us will have no doubt that our Democray is sound.
| Dear Fritz, I Was Intrigued By The Use Of The Word "hoopla... ||Nov 17th. at 4:19:43 pm UTC|
|Jay Rufus (Tipperary, Ireland, Ireland) ||Age: 0 - Email |
Dear Fritz, I was intrigued by the use of the word "hoopla" on your website to describe the goings-on regarding the Gush'n'Bore presidential elections in the U.S.of A. It looked as if you were using that word to indicate a sort of situation which in English-English would be referred to as a "(right old) hoo-ha".
I was very puzzled you used "hoopla", as in England this word actually refers ONLY to a game which is played at outdoor festivals and fairs and indoors in some 'pubs' (public houses or bars). Like my late friend Stewart Farrar, I am fascinated by philology (comparative & historical linguistics); so, like all good (aspiring) writers, I went to my dictionary to check the exact meanings. I thought you & my fellow Witchvox-surfers might find the definitions of interest, and they would maybe raise a smile during such serious times:-
1) "hoo-ha" - noun. of unknown origin, English, used to denote ' a noisy commotion or fuss'
2) "hoopla" - noun.a) British - a fairground game in which a player tries to throw a hoop over an object and so win it, or over a painted wooden figure of a man or woman to gain points, (STET!), b) American - U.S. slang for 'noise' or 'bustle', c) American - U.S. slang for 'nonsense' or ' ballyhoo' - see also "whoop-la" from the French interjection "houp-la!", said to a horse to make it go faster, as in English & American "giddy-up!"
( Jay's NOTE: For those with a deeper interest in this last point, go to the lyrics of a song from the 1940's or 1950's by French singer Maurice Chevalier. I think it was about a donkey !!)
As for your requested comments from us bewildered folk overseas to let Witchvox know what we think of the events in the U.S. elections - some of us are wondering why, if a Florida vote of just plus/minus 300 will always decide the successful candidate, why don't you all save yourselves millions of campaign dollars and hundreds of hours of boring TV time by simply confining the elections to Florida alone !!!!! But seriously, we in Europe find it appalling that the future safety of ourselves, our children, the environment and indeed the world can hinge on such an infinitesimally small UNVERIFIED margin in just one State out of millions (or billions?) of people in such a large country; and we are very alarmed at the rumours of possible skullduggery in what is supposed to be the world's greatest democracy (skullduggery = underhand dealing or trickery). >>>>>> best wishes from 'Jay' in Tipperary, Ireland.
| I Voted For Nader. I Couldn't In Good Conscience Cast My Vote... ||Nov 17th. at 3:55:35 pm UTC|
|Kimberly Hunt (Seattle, Washington US) ||Age: 26 - Email |
I voted for Nader. I couldn't in good conscience cast my vote for either Bush or Gore. Bush, well, he doesn't have the basic qualifications for the job in my opinion. He has no clue about anything outside of the Republic of Texas (yes it really is a Republic). He's far to insular, and doesn't have the smarts to know where he needs to improve.
Gore is a chameleon. Check out www.godhatesfags.com to see what Gore's past stances have been on the issues of religion, morals and homosexuality. Enough said on that.
However, unlike Gore, Bush has stated publicly that he doesn't think that Wicca is a real religion. That's sounds rather dangerous because if other's share his views, it could mean an end to protection under freedom of religion for us. But given Gore's past views, how can we tell what he really thinks? Hopefully, both will see the advantage of leaving us alone.
At this point it doesn't really matter if either concedes, as we are already the laughing stock of the globe. On the upside, more people have gotten interested in the election process.
I'm not sure either candidate will be able to bring the country together after this mess.
| I Voted For Al Gore. Granted, He May Be A Little Cold... ||Nov 17th. at 3:36:34 pm UTC|
|SilverMoon (Waterloo, Iowa US) ||Age: 27 - Email |
I voted for Al Gore. Granted, he may be a little cold, but his views on the environment are very crucial. Also, because of what Mr. Bush was quoted for saying about religion, I don't want him to be able to tell me that what I practice (Wicca) should not be considered a religion.
To me, the hoopla going on now in Florida is crap. It has boiled down to one side squabbling with the other. My question is very simple, if the roles were reversed, would one side still be criticizing the other? Of course not--they'd be doing exactly the same thing. I say for this election since the electoral college has created such a problem to let the popular vote elect the president.
Truth be told, I don't know if either candidate will know exactly how to bring the country together--at the moment our country has no idea who its next president is going to be. And we're worried about the president bringing us together???
| Yes, I Did Vote. I Voted For Gore/lieberman. I Think Gore... ||Nov 17th. at 3:11:53 pm UTC|
|Cernowain9 (Indianapolis, Indiana US) ||Age: 40 - Email |
Yes, I did vote. I voted for Gore/Lieberman. I think Gore will do more to respect religious minorities like those of us who are pagan.
Most of the "hot button" issues didn't weigh in on my decision so much. As far as Social Security, I think both candidates views could be enacted, it really wasn't a "choice" as far as that issue is concerned. Both candidates were "pro-education", but as each admitted, the schools are locally controlled, so the federal gov's influence would be minimal, seems to me.
There was one issue that helped tip the balance toward Gore for me. In the third debate, the death penalty issue came up (finally). And although both candidate believe in it (and I do not), Bush's little laugh about executing prisoners in Texas really bothered me. At least Gore is open to looking at DNA evidence when it comes to the death penalty. I would think a lot of pagans would be sensitive to this issue because of the history of the "burning times", but pagans I know seem divided on this issue.
Bush's slur again wicca not being a real religion was the topper, though. If he becomes president in January, he will be Cammander in Chief of our armed forces. In that capactity, he may have some influence on the military's stance on recognizing wiccans and pagans as official religions. The same military that protects our right to freedom of religion may lose their right to practice their wiccan/pagan beliefs and be persecuted.
As long as we are a minority faith, we will need to vote with "the right to religious expression" firmly in our minds!
| Manyu,addy:firstname.lastname@example.org, I Voted For Gore. Bush Is Too Much... ||Nov 17th. at 11:41:53 am UTC|
|Tom Boughan (Cowan,, Tennessee US) ||Age: 47 - Email |
Manyu, addy:email@example.com.Yes, I voted for Gore. Bush is too much in league with religious right and he let it be known he doesn't think wicca is a legitimate religion, so it is not covered under the First Amendment. He also mentioned Ft. Hood indirectly by mentioning that military made a mistake by allowing wicca on base.I want an end to the voting count, but not too soon that lots are not counted.For example, absentee ballots and the butterfly ballots.
| I Did Not Vote. Instead, I Supported A Boycott Of This Idiotic... ||Nov 17th. at 12:12:34 am UTC|
|Craig Stehr (Berkeley, California US) ||Age: 51 - Email |
I did NOT vote. Instead, I supported a boycott of this idiotic election. I feel just fine about my decision. I look forward to NOT voting again, in the future.
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