The opinions posted on the Pagan Perspective pages are those of individuals and are not neccessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.
Posted: Nov. 17, 2002
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Question of the Week: 95 - 1/19/2003
How Do You Feel About War?
‘Yes I'm talking about this war dance/ A patriotic romance./And I know all you poets/Have seen it all before…’ – Colin Moulding, XTC
Colin: ‘The words were originally prompted by the Falklands War in 1982. But it was too much on one piece of history. Then along came the Persian Gulf War and I put the revised lyrics to a new piece of music. It was time to bring war out of the closet again.’
And again, it would seem. How do you, from your own spiritual perspective or tradition, view and/or cope with the ideals and realities of war and armed conflict?
Do your political leanings influence how you feel?
Do you have a difficult time explaining/defending/advocating your position to other Pagans or Heathens? Non-Pagans?
| Reponses: There are 153 responses posted to this question.
|| Reverse Sort
| Fuel For Diesel ||Jan 26th. at 2:41:48 pm EST|
|Rose (Canada) ||Age: 40 - Email |
I say NO WAR IN IRAQ !!. I am really concerned with the blatant oil grab of the Bush government and their oil buddy Blair. They already have plans on taking the oil fields (securing them) Apparently now Bush is willing to hold off for a few weeks to drum up support for this war with other countries, guess what, the U.S. is offering to divy up the oil with them, it won't just be Britian and the U.S. having it all for themselves. I have also read and heard on the news that the U.S. will use NUCLEAR WEAPONS, in Iraq, as retaliation for or as a PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE if they think that Iraq is POSSIBLY, going to use chemical or biological weapons. Yup , the U.S. has them little NUKES, they call them bunker-busters, isn't that cute, little bombs , lots of radiation! Bear in mind that Iraq, has attacked NO ONE. If the U.S. does attack Iraq though that would be considered a breach of International Law, and the U.S, and it's allies could be tried as war criminals, now the U.S. did not want to sign on to this treaty, because good old Henry Kissinger would be tried as a war criminal.Britian did sign this treaty,though. So did Canada. A group of about 100 lawyers world wide has sent nice letters of warning to Mr. Bush & Mr Rumsfield, saying they would make every attempt to have them tried as WAR CRIMINALS!! Indeed they would be!! I am going to remind all the people who read these letters that the U.S. has been the only country ever in the world to unleash the worst weapon of mass destruction on Japan, they did it for maximum damage and fried , burnt, melted thousand of innocent civilians. No other country has ever done this since. Someone has been saying things on this site that are so smug & unbelievably true I must correct them. The U.S. actually produces very little, that is why they are running such huge trade deficits, that means they are buying lots more then they are selling.So much of what we but is made in third-world countries, that American corporations exploit for cheap labour. NIKE, GAP et al. If Canada was invaded and some turned a blind eye, the U.S. would actually lose in a huge way, why? because they import our oil and our electricity. the U.S. is a huge energy hog and can't go without it's Canadian supply.Oh and the communist party is printing signs is such a blatant bit of propoganda, you should be ashamed you even said that, your fellow Americans & citizens from all the other countries in this world are free to say their opinions, that does not make them communists, what if they printed the signs themselves. McArthyism was a black mark in the history of America, are you attempting to repeat it? I could go on there is so much more, covert wars and overthrown democracies, regime changes that were in the interests of the U.S.. DON'T make the same mistake in Iraq, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS WILL DIE!
| Win It Fast? ||Jan 26th. at 10:46:56 am EST|
|silverheart (Texas, usa) ||Age: 41 - Email |
In an earlier post,
it is stated by the poster that "I think they should bring back the draft so all you who bad mouth this country can experience first hand also how certain religious cults hate us" , and something else about "forming local militia groups to defend the towns and cities from attacks" One needs to be reminded that when those "local Mitlitia groups" that you propose to have defend our towns and villages (who will be run by the "Christian" cult members) get wind of who she is they will drag her butt out in the street and shoot it too.
| TO: Skeggi (New Zealand), All New Zealand, And All Canadians ||Jan 26th. at 4:31:12 am EST|
|Odin (Anacortes, WA) ||Age: 47 - Email |
Hello Skeggi of (New Zealand)
I wish to share with you, and all those from New Zealand and Canada that the voice that is insulting you all from Washington State is only one person, and I (Odin) from Washington State, and every Pagan that I know in Washington State, does not condone the behaviour which is being displayed to you on this "Question of the Week" by one person of our beautiful State. On behalf of Washington State I wish to apologize to all in New Zealand and in Canada, and ask that you not view the rest of us as rude Americans for the ill mannerisms of this one individual.
Skeggi, I am sure that you actually do view the United States as a bully, and for good reason. However, I understand our position, and although I can explain it in a mature manner, it will still result in the truth, that yes, we are the ruling nation on the planet. That is due to the fact that the United States is the largest stockholder of voting shares in the corporation known as the International Monetary Fund (IMF). We hold 19.96% of the voting share stock, more than any other member nation, and as in any Corporation, the person with the most stock is the ruling force. That is why the United Nations is Headquartered in the United States. This doesn't take away from the fact that it isn't fair to any other nation, or that it is fair that we force our way of life upon another citizen in any nation. But it is the most truthful answer that anyone can give you.
In addition, the United States is not alone in making these decisions. Prior to the rise of Hilter, the United States didn't involve itself much in the control of other nations. Then we had to help Europe and Russia in it's War with Hitler, and at the same time we got hit at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese, and if not that we got control of Hiltler's oil and invented the first atomic bomb, we might have not survived that War. Each nation that became the survivors of World War II (European Nations, Russia, United States, etc.) then formed the United Nations to end all World Wars. That another Hilter could never be allowed to rise in power, and to accomplish this, we DEMAND that every nation on the planet join the United Nations and comply to their rules. Iraq, Osama, and North Korean have refused. Therefore at all cost they shall be dealt with at their national level, even killing them all if necessary; rather than to allow them to become another Hilter or worst. This agenda includes dictating terms and conditions to other nations. No nation on the planet is today allowed to remain free and independent because of technology. Today any fanatical group can make an atomic bomb to fit in a suitcase, and biological weapons can be released into the atmosphere from anywhere and kill a great portion of the World's populist without warning. Someone on a ship could release a biological weapon near New Zealand and your entire population could be killed in a matter of minutes. So when we defend America against the likes of Saddam, we are also defending New Zealand and any other nation that could become a target of fanatical individuals.
It is because of technology that we must today become a One World Government. The old ways can no longer exist, to demand independence is suicide for every nation in the world. Everyone, every nation must therefore be monitored, and their weapons checked, controlled, or destroyed. When we control Iraq, we not only guarantee that the United States will be safe, but that New Zealand, Canada, and every Nation on the planet will be safe.
Therefore what seems to you as the United States being a bully, is the United States being a part of the United Nations that is being the bully. It is due to the fact that we own the greatest amount of stock in the IMF (corporation) that we are committed to place the greatest amount of military force to Iraq and Osama. And then to North Korea, and to any person or any nation on the planet that will not comply with the United Nations Authorities. We won World War II. We did that, and not any other nation. We saved the world of Hilter, and so it is our right as the victors to set the terms and conditions.
As I promised, I have given you the answer to your questions in an adult manner. And I am sure that such an answer will never satisfy most, because many see a peaceful world, and have not the eyes to see that this is still the clean up of post World War II (that we still haven't accomplished the agenda after WWII of a One World Government). Many are so young as displayed by the ages of many that have posted to this article, not having but a few years (or in this case but a few hours) to experience War, or our nation in a War. World Peace will only be obtained when the entire world becomes a One World Government. Then War will end on the planet and we will live together as one. As long as there remain independent nations, War will always be with us.
And to all my friends in Canada. I have spent much time in your beautiful nation. I have always been treating kindly, even when I once broke down in Northern British Columbia by the Yukon border did your fellow countrymen come to my aid, gave me shelter and towed my vehicle at no charge for almost a hundred miles to a garage for repairs. You are the kindess people that I have ever met on this planet and you are most welcome to my country to receive any medical attention that you require, and you are most welcome to visit us in peace anytime. I deeply apologize for the rudeness displayed in other posts herein by someone of my beautiful and peaceful Washington State.
With deepest apologies,
| Ok Here An Idea ||Jan 26th. at 3:47:26 am EST|
|Skeggi (New Zealand) ||Age: 32 - Email |
How about we take a tiny fraction of the war budget and go to countries that have a need of industry or medicine etc and provide it.
Why not do something to stop the violence in palistine, which would show alot of islamic countries that you are not the evil empire.
Why not stop not providing medicine to countries because they cant pay the bill.
And instead of setting up dependent economies, help them to become independent and self sufficent.
I remember a Vietinese soilder saying the only way to defeat them was to come here and eat rice for a thousand years and then well all be vetinese so no problem.
The only way to defeat an enemy is with love.
| Against War, But For The Military ||Jan 26th. at 2:39:12 am EST|
|Michael Bowles (Honolulu, Hawaii) ||Age: 42 - Email |
I am a pacifist by nature and by choice. I do not think war can create anything but more violence and hatred. However, I also think that this proposed war is being pushed by just a few power mad fools and most people in the military are not personally wishing for war. I support our brothers and sisters in the military who are after all being true to their sworn oaths, while at the same time praying for peace and joining my voice with the millions of others who think a war in Iraq is a VERY bad idea..
| What Movie? ||Jan 26th. at 1:51:46 am EST|
|diesel (washington) ||Age: 46 - Email |
i forgot to add...what movie shows the rest of the world how we think they should live?
and it's a M-O-V-I-E.
fiction.......and hollywood doesn't really count as america. it's more like a separate planet.
it sounds more and more like jealous grumbling. i have not heard any viable solutions to this. let's hear some....that would be constructive.
and i don't mean the "i'm just gonna sit in the middle of the street chanting" solutions either.
amusing that you attack america and not the guy using the VX.
have you ever seen what that does to someone? it's not good.
| Right.......... ||Jan 26th. at 1:20:35 am EST|
|diesel (washington) ||Age: 46 - Email |
yes and maybe the canadians could send that love down with some of the thousands of their citizens that are pouring into the u.s. for medical care.
i appreciate different views...and even though i am an american i do know that canadians have the right to feel the way they do as a nation, as do we.
but, come on..isn't it a little silly to blame 'sex and the city 'for making your country a worse place? oh brother.....that really is a stretch. turn off the telly.
and new zealand doesn't use our technology??????????
hey....do you see the glowing box right in front of you?
but does that make us better? absolutely not. do we think it does? absolutely not.
i am a little tired of the world interpreting america and americans.you can look at our actions...but how many countless thousands of decisions and reasons go into every one? there are reasons none of us will ever know about. i always figured that's why every american president ages about ten years in his first year of office. i'm pretty sure that i wouldn't be able to sleep either if i knew what he knew.
first all of you call us busy body bullies that are in your business too much. then you whine that we don't know anything about your country, aren't giving you enough attention. which is it?
there are alot of instances where we, as a nation, have done incredibly stupid things. abandoning korea really comes to mind. look at your history..it's a heartbreaking thing.
but haven't all counties done things they shouldn't have? does not make it okay......but it doesn't make you wrong forever either.
we all have to try and go forward and improve EVERYONE'S quality of life.
can you name a country that is as fast to respond to a disaster as america?
i agree with new zealand's stance on GE foods and nuclear weapons........but you can also call it isolationist, can't you?[and pretty naive..that genie is out of the bottle....] sure you are hurting anyone, but are you helping anyone but yourselves either? and isn't that what you are accusing us big bad americans of?hmmmmm?
canada......also harmless.but what do you do for others in the world?
it is apples and oranges. we are all very different. the world is not a homogenized 'we are one people' place. and i hope it never is. think of how many wonderful cultures would be lost.
and that's where i do disagree with my government.just because something is different doesn't make it wrong.[it rather amuses me that the very thing all of you accuse the american government of doing....well....you do it yourselves when judging america, don't you? we are cowboys, etc. ad nauseum]
when my sister was very young, my mother came home and told a horrific story about seeing a man's hands being chopped off. for stealing. she was ,of course, very upset. this was in libya.our housekeeper was refilling the buckets of kerosene that the bed legs stood in [to keep the scorpions from getting into bed with you] at the time. and she just mildly said "oh well......he DID steal didn't he?"
my mother said that was not the point.to which the housekeeper said "don't you do this to people in your country when they steal? " she was surprised to learn that we didn't.
different cultures.....very different.
| All Wars Are Rediculous ||Jan 26th. at 1:15:20 am EST|
|Margaret L. Cole (VA) ||Age: 58 - Email |
I think war is completely assinine, especially since we have an ulterior motive in attacking Iraq. It really doesn't matter what any of us may think. The reptile snakes are in charge. May heaven help us!!!
| Win It Fast ||Jan 26th. at 12:48:22 am EST|
|LadyWolf (Washington Co., PA) ||Age: 51 - Email |
I was an Army wife and mother for 30 years. I followed my husband all over the world and raised my 4 daughters, 2 of whom are veterans of the Gulf. I have seen first hand how most third world nations hate us and envy us. They want what we have but don't want to work for it as we and our ancestors had to. The most hated and envied Americans are American women. Yes, I hate war, but if we must go again we must fight to win and with the kind of leadership we have it won't be easy. Our leadership is all hot air. Our leadership doesn't know how to win a war. Before we go to war it should already be won. I would rather see us fight for oil than fight needlessly to prop up some fat, loud mouthed dictator who victimizes his own people so that he and his buddies can live high on the hog. Before sending our boys and girls off to fight, their flanks should be secured. By that I mean deport all who are potential spies and saboteurs, regardless of their race or gender. What makes you think that they won't do what they can to help their people and hinder our ? Most of them are here for material wealth, not to support democracy. Every city, town and village and township should form local militia groups to cover for us here while the regulars and the National Guard and the reserves troops are over there. Militias can be made up of all us who are unfit to go, but we old and young folks can cover for them till they win and come back home. I think they should bring back the draft so all you who bad mouth this country can experience first hand also how certain religious cults hate us. When you get up morning after morning and flip that switch and get no juice or hot water, you'll be glad to go.
| War: The Last Resort ||Jan 26th. at 12:42:35 am EST|
|J Fisher (Chicagoland, IL) ||Age: 42 - Email |
I have my own thoughts with regard to the looming prospect of war with Iraq. What I think people in general forget is that this is not about destroying the Iraqi people nor is the "War on Terrorism" about the destruction of Islam. You can take that at face value...to do otherwise is just conspiracy theorist nonsense.
I really believe that war is a necessary last resort...I say LAST RESORT because people will die and that is never good. No one can see the outcome of any one person dying prematurely. The old saying of "if you kill one bug, you've killed a million" is certainly true. Human beings are not bugs by any stretch of the imagination, of course, but you understand what I am getting at. (Here comes the "but"...)
,BUT...Human death machines like Saddam Hussein are a cancer on this planet. What do you suppose the outcome would have been if the free peoples of the Earth had not stood up and destroyed the last human death machine called Adolph Hitler? Saddam Hussein is far worse because of the technological advances at his disposal! He could make Hitler seem like an amateur. I am sorry but anyone who can sanction the notion of sending children and teenagers out with explosives tied to their bodies out to kill others and other children in the name of the god they worship is Evil Incarnate. It is not the religion that is broken, nay, rather, it is the MEN who interpret it who are twisted and broken. These men are the cancer and it needs to be excised from the body. Saddam Hussein also supports terrorism...for that reason alone he should be gone. The issue of "weapons of mass destruction", or "WMD", just adds fuel to the fire.
Ask yourself this: should the USA wait until a US city like New York or Los Angeles is destroyed by nuclear fire before we act to remove lunatics like this? Do you feel that the USA deserves to lose two cities to nuclear destruction as payment of some perceived "sin" in Japan some 60 years ago? I submit that that notion is ludicrase and down right treasonous. Get a grip, folks, get behind the President and our troops and let's end this.
| GO CANADA ||Jan 26th. at 12:07:00 am EST|
|delia (San Francisco) ||Age: 26 - Email |
Thanks, Canadian, for your point of view. Check out the raving reviews for Michael Moore's documentary "Bowling for Columbine" and you'll see that there are many Americans who appreciate your nation's peaceful choices. Please send the love down our way!
| It's Stupid ||Jan 25th. at 11:47:03 pm EST|
|Rosalyn (Pennsylvania) ||Age: 16 - Email |
it's stupid & idiotic & is only a way of showing off & being an asshole.
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