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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 4,728,329  

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Times Viewed: 32,767

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Lurker/Post Ratio: 33 to 1

Question of the Week: 59 - 9/11/2001

911 America: Talking Through The Terror...

Talking Through The Terror... And helping each other cope with the tragedies that struck at the very heart of the United States. The Witches Voice has opened up this forum in order that Pagans may express their thoughts on the terrorist attacks that took place in NYC and DC on September 11th. As the full realization of what happened and the toll numbers begin to come in, Americans have many challenges ahead.

What are your thoughts on these incidents? How are you feeling? Feel free to post any magickal workings or other support gatherings planned in your area.

WebNote 9/16/2001: Since we launched this on 911 this forum as become laced with powerful inspiration and critical information, feel free to use the search functions on your left to better define the info you are looking for. Search for your area, famous Pagans, key words etc. Also check Wren's Nest News for the latest news related to our community.

 Reponses:   There are 969 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


I Have Family Right Where The Planes Hit In Nyc. I Just... Sep 12th. at 12:57:11 pm EDT

Solaris (South Charleston, West Virginia US) Age: 26 - Email


I have family right where the planes hit in NYC. I just found out they are ok, thank the gods. But there are those who have lost family and friends forever. Some of these people suffered while they died. Some are still trapped, and may not survive to be rescued - again, suffering, not knowing whether or not they will get out in time. And this terrible act deserves retaliation. We can preach peace as much as we want about being peaceful and rising above violence, etc., AD NASEUM, but the fact of the matter is that the inhuman monsters that did this do not think logically or rationally. They are governed by hate, and are consumed with hate. The only thing they will understand is their loved ones dying in return, their cities destroyed, their lives thrown into chaos. Unfortunately, in this day, age and reality, war must be fought to maintain peace. If we don't strike back, we will then be seen as an easy target, and that will merely open us up for more of the same kind, or worse, acts of violence. This is the way the world works, and to survive, we need to act accordingly.

Blessings,
Solaris


My Husband Is A Schoolteacher In Md. All The Schools Were Let... Sep 12th. at 12:51:13 pm EDT

Kathleen (Delta, Pennsylvania US) Age: 35 - Email


My husband is a schoolteacher in Md. All the schools were let out early yesterday in response to this tragedy. Gods! He has never hugged me so tight!

Parents. Mothers. Love your children. Hold them close. We never know for how long we have our loved ones. PLEASE! Teach your children not to hate. We can break this cycle with them.

I understand the anger many must feel. Revenge, though, is pointless. And it is what they expect. Turn your anger towards finding the REAL criminals in this, not who everyone BELIEVES the real criminal is. If you continue with your lives as normal, you will still be fighting them. Because that's not what they expect.
As soon as they stepped on that plane, they enacted the great will of Karma. And no one escapes Karma. Be patient. Retribution IS coming for them.

I implore all pagans to help with the relief efforts no matter how small and inconsiquential they may be. Light a candle. Pray to your dieties. It may seem to be just one small drop in a huge bucket but all those drops will add up to a torrent of love and support. I also ask that many with sympathies for animals concentrate their energies on those brave dogs hunting for the survivors. They are the only ones who can tell us if there are people under all that rubble and wether they are dead or alive. They have an important job to do so help them if you can.

Those people who can also do Reiki should concentrate their gifts, whatever level, in helping the rescuers. Every little bit will help.

I will pray to Epona to help. May she bring healing on hooves swift as lightning, may she carry the spirits of those departed safely to the Summerlands, and may she offer comfort to those left behind with warm, sympathetic, nickers.

May all the Gods and Goddesses bless, keep and guard you in the days to come.

Devon, Maid of Epona


Wednesday Morningwitchvox Was The First Site I Accessed Yesterday. I Live... Sep 12th. at 12:45:57 pm EDT

Magpie (Boulder, Colorado US) Age: 38 - Email


Wednesday morning

Witchvox was the first site I accessed yesterday. I live in Colorado, and I wanted to offer shelter to any Pagans stranded at the airport. I am so proud to read the responses to this disaster, and see the understanding that knee-jerk violence begets more violence and more loss of life. I think the only good to come out of something like this is the chance to help people who are desperately in need.

I have no belief in a deity or an afterlife, the logic just doesn't work for me. But as I sat at my altar yesterday, I called upon the concept of the Goddess to take away my burden of fear and incomprehension, and I felt better. Maybe it's true that there are no atheists in the trenches. I can't find a way to resolve the idea of a benevolent, all-powerful deity and the events of yesterday, but maybe the Goddess as universal love, as a mother to soothe our pain, even as we're dying, perhaps there is such a thing. I'm crying as I write this - it's the first time.

My tendency at this time is to draw into myself. I'm afraid of the anger that people have as a response, it feels like another attack. Yesterday a friend and I seriously said that we could feel the proverbial "disturbance in the Force." I want to thank everyone here for their thoughts, and their love. Both of those things are our true powers, and we're using them. Today I'll go out, and provide the viewpoint of peace to counteract the scary people.

I'll let my local pagan sisters know about the 11:00 pm ET Nationwide circle on Thursday, and I'll be giving blood. Take care, everyone.

Magpie


I Hate To Say This, But We Have To Strike. Terrorists Only... Sep 12th. at 12:43:28 pm EDT

Tawaret (Dallas, Texas US) Age: 28 - Email


I hate to say this, but we have to strike. Terrorists only understand hate and fear. Somebody's hatred of us exceeded their fear of us, and thus four planes and three buildings paid the price. Somebody needs to learn to fear us again, or they may feel emboldened to strike against us again. Starting a war is excessive and unneccessary, and the other side can only prosecute the war if they have supporters who do not fear our retailiation. A swift, brutal, but effective strike, and a cyber-strike against the funding of the terrorist cells responsible will do the trick. Yes, it is returning violence with violence, but unless I see volunteers willing to spread positive vibrations and enlightenment to the terrorists personally, and not get laughed at in their faces, it is the only thing I think these sons of Apep will understand.


When I Think Of The Events Of Sept. 11th I Can't Help... Sep 12th. at 12:40:17 pm EDT

owlfeather (Battle Ground, Washington US) Age: 37 - Email


When i think of the events of Sept. 11th I can't help but feel sadness for all the people who were caught in the terror, the madness, and the devastation in New York and the Pentagon. These were people who just wanted go do their job and go home, but when they looked out the window and saw a 767 growing in their 80th floor window, they knew. They knew that they'd never tickle their kids, never pet their dog, never breathe fresh air again.

Then there were those on the ground, running to help those trapped in the buildings, only to be buried under 110 stories of debris. And we sit staring, mouth agape at the TV, wondering when someone will yell, "CUT, PRINT, IT"S A WRAP" but knowing that will not happen. And we watch as horrifying scene after scene is played out before our eyes. The endless commentary assailing our ears with more and more damage and loss and pain.

Then the voices turn sinister and start the accusations. The need to blame. "Who could do such a heinious thing?" It was him, it wasn't me. They find the man, but not the proof. War is declared. Threats are made. Posturing, posturing.

But what I see is a man, in charge of the most powerful war machine in the world, bullying, ignoring, irritating other countries. Blowing off long-standing treaties, then asking those countries he hurt, for help. The man I see as responsible for all this mess, is Mr Bush. He has pushed HIS agenda down the throats of us and the world. Now that this disaster has happened, I'm sure that he will make some goofy statements, and make some money, and execute a scapegoat and feel blameless.

But Mr. Bush, I lay at your feet, the shattered lives, the burned teddy bears, and the many, many newly orphaned children and ask you one question.

Can we work TOWARDS world peace yet?


My Father In Law Sent Me An E-mail About Nostradamus And It... Sep 12th. at 12:37:52 pm EDT

Amuia (Aiea, Hawaii US) Age: 28 - Email


My Father in Law sent me an e-mail about Nostradamus and it freaked me out. Is it true that he predicted this?

(Here's the clip)

> Are you guys familiar with Nostradamus?
>
> This is a quake from one of his predictions:
>
> "In the year of the new century and nine months, From the sky will come
> a great King of Terror... The sky will burn at forty-five degrees. Fire
> approaches the great new city..."
>
> In the city of york there will be a great collapse, 2 twin brothers torn
> apart.by chaos while the fortress fall the great leader will succumb d
> third big war will begin when the big city is burning - NOSTRADAMUS
>
> 2001 is the first year of the new century and this is the 9th month. New
> York is located at the 41st degree Latitude.
> He also said that this will be the third World War and it would be
> bigger than the last two wars. I hope he is wrong, but judging from his
> predictions of Hitler, Napoleon, and Pearl Harbor....


Well, I'm Not Going To Say What Has Probably Been Said. Except... Sep 12th. at 12:37:35 pm EDT

Katherine Dunn (Burlington, North Carolina US) Age: 22 - Email


Well, I'm not going to say what has probably been said.

Except...

May the victims find their way to the warmest of the Summerlands.
And may the terrorists find their way to the darkest depths of Tartarus.


First I Want To Share A Poem I Came Up With Yesterday... Sep 12th. at 12:21:36 pm EDT

SpiralSong (Madison, Wisconsin US) Age: 23 - Email


First I want to share a poem I came up with yesterday...during the shock of watching the Towers go down, watching the Pentagon burn, and thinking of the immense gravity of the events that just occurred...
--
Tuesday, September 11th, 2001

"Two hijacked planes crashed into the World Trade Center,
toppling the twin 110-story towers
where thousands of people had just arrived for work.

Within an hour, an explosion rocked the Pentagon in Washington,
where the White House, the Capitol and all other federal buildings were evacuated.

Military jets patrolled the skies
while the FAA grounded all civilian aircraft nationwide,
but not before reports of another plane crashing in Pennsylvania."

Today was the day of smoke and flames.
Today was the day when the skyline of a city
Was changed forever.

Today was the day when thousands of people
Lost their lives, lost their loved ones.

"Windows shattered.
People were screaming and diving for cover.
People walked around like ghosts,
covered in dirt,
weeping and wandering dazed."

I do not feel safe.
I cannot feel safe.
I may never feel safe again.

Today is the day that our prayers will be heard throughout the world
Because they are written across the sky
In columns of smoke.

Today was the day we will never forget.
--

Last night I attended a candlelight vigil/ritual for healing at a local park. There were about 30 of us there. I've made an appointment to donate blood at my local Red Cross -- they are only accepting donations by appointment due to the massive public response to this horrible series of events.

I couldn't sleep last night. I kept dreaming of airplanes.

I am lucky. I do not have friends or family at the disaster zones. That makes this whole thing no less horrifying for me, and I cannot even imagine the pain and anguish and fear of those who are trapped or who have yet to hear from friends or loved ones. I have shed many tears already; I will shed many more before this is over. ALL THOSE PEOPLE...

Driving and walking through the building I work in and through the city I live in yesterday I saw groups of total strangers gathered around radios and televisions: people of many races and religions sharing a common reaction to the tragedy that occurred. I saw people driving, stuck in traffic, with their hands over their mouths and tears on their cheeks. The outpouring of horror, fear, sorrow, and anger was overwhelming.

In the hallways and on the radio I hear talk of retribution. This is premature. Those who did this will be brought to justice, and we must NOT answer their violence with violence of our own. At this time we must prove that we can maintain the fairness, the truth, and the justice that this nation was founded on. But I'm afraid: tensions are running high as the entire country yields to an almost purely visceral reaction to the senseless acts of hatred meted out on our cities, our loved ones. We can't afford to answer that hatred with hatred of our own. With our technologies, war is NOT an option.

Tonight at 10pm CST the Nationwide Circle goes on, and whether or not I can find friends to gather with, I will send energies of hope and healing for those lives lost, those who have lost loved ones, those still trapped or still working to help, those who are waiting with bated breath to hear the fate of friends and family still unaccounted for, and yes...even for those who did this, that they may be FAIRLY brought to justice.

Blessed Be,
SpiralSong


Dear Friends, Pagans Of The World Unite! Our Country Needs Your Help... Sep 12th. at 12:08:50 pm EDT

Acacia (Gastonia, North Carolina US) Age: 25 - Email


Dear Friends,

Pagans of the world UNITE! Our country needs your help.

Please donate to the American Red Cross with blood, monetary donations, or volunteer time!

With my current illness, I am unable to donate blood. This is unfortunate since I am O positive.

As an employee of my local Emergency Management System, I can understand the magnitude and reality of the response to NYC and DC. To the Red Cross, your donations of towels, bottled water, snack foods, bandages, paper products, and children's comforts will ALL be needed and appreciated.

Consider if you will, the strain that our Government Relief Funds and local charities are about to encounter for the THOUSANDS of disrupted families due to the loss of loved ones and their means of support.

Many Emergency Management Departments up and down the East Coast are now on standby. Military medical and disaster crews are on alert, awaiting dispatch. North Carolinians are already planning for their trips North to assist in ALL levels of recovery and assistance operations.

In closing, for those of us who feel the need for togetherness, but do not have the convenience of a pagan circle.

DO NOT FORGET, that places of worship are ALL sacred space. Congregations of souls, no matter what Gods they pray to are in need of comforting and togetherness in prayer.

No matter what kind of altar you light a candle on, no matter what form of clergy you shed tears to, all of us are going through the same spiritual woundings.

Stand with our brothers and sisters and pray. I would think that we're all well aware that no matter where we are, the Gods, no matter what their names will hear us.

I want to see an outpouring of love and faith. Human healing and togetherness. Show the world for once, that we too can grieve without the need to hold ourselves apart from the rest of society. But instead, that our compassion exceeds that which we are believed to posess.

Good night, and Gods Bless America!

Acacia Penardun-MacGrayland
-who will attend religious ceremonies locally this week


Why Did This Administration Give The Latest Gift Of 43 Million Dollars... Sep 12th. at 12:06:29 pm EDT

huntress (New York, New York US) Age: 34


Why did this administration give the latest gift of 43 MILLION Dollars to Afghanistan? And that's on TOP of some 100+ MILION dollars given earlier.
See: www.bushwatch.com

I am a NYC resident and am horrified. Luckily I had a doc's appt. otherwise I'd be witness to the horrible spectacle. I am fearful to return to my midtown office...who knows what the next target is.

I find it ironic (but expected and typical) that all NYC schools, libraries, etc are closed (anywhere where large groups of people exist at once) but that the corporate mentality is "Business as Usual." Well, for today at least I am home!

I of course extend my deepest sympathies to the families of both victims and rescue workers. I have no inspirational or spiritual messages at this time, I guess I'm still in shock...

BB.


It Workedit Seems So Unreal Yet So Concrete. ItÕs Like The... Sep 12th. at 12:05:05 pm EDT

Tiamat Dragon (Sunnyvale, California US) Age: 27 - Email


It Worked

It seems so unreal yet so concrete. ItÕs like the web of my world has changed forever. Like my eyes have been opened to such tragedy. I donÕt know any of those people yet I feel so affected. I no longer feel safe in this country. ItÕs like having your home robbed. You know that itÕs most likely that the robber wont return, but you still feel unsafe. I am so scared not only of what has happened, but what we are going to do as a nation. USA Today took a poll and 90% of the people that answered said they wanted war. Okay so we want to make a tragedy worse by killing more of our fellow human beings. I thought that I would have more to say. Last night I was up until 1am because I was so scared. At first when it happened I was shocked and sad and a little scared. Now here I am scared trying to carry out my normal day which many people will never again do. I have been looking at other people in a different light. Those faceless masses have suddenly become so close to me. So many people want blood for blood. But I have always felt that a human life is just as good as any other human life. I am standing here where I could make decisions that would change my life. If we go into war I have to decide whether to an objector and walk around with signs or to flee. Maybe I never should have stayed in such a high profile country to begin with. All my favorite people are here though. ThatÕs one thing. Call me silly, but I feel like if I stay near those that I love I can protect them somehow. Cry out for blood I do not, more so I cry for those whom have lost someone, those whom have died early.


Greetings All I Am At A Loss For Words, Sue (my Mate... Sep 12th. at 12:05:00 pm EDT

Rev Larry Harney (Brooklyn, New York US) Age: 49 - Email


Greetings ALL

I am at a loss for words, Sue (my Mate) and I are home safe, and our family in NYC are safe. It was a long walk home from were we work, but here are some of my thoughts as we walk. For those that don't know Sue and I work for the City of NY as computer consultants. Anyway we were told to go home and started our long walk. Most of it is a blur, but little things stand out. Like the Police Sgt. who took time to help an elderly woman get on a crowded city bus and made sure it was the bus she needed to be on. Like the woman handing out cups of water on 14th street. Like the group of men and women passing out cups of water and cool towels to those who just crossed the bridge on foot. To these people I say "Thank you! Little Things do mean a LOT!!" The one thing that does stand out is our walk across the Williamsburg Bridge. The thousand that crossed with us did not turn around. Eyes were focus forward no one look behind them, it was unreal to see where two buildings once stood, all you could see was the cloud of smoke.

Rev Larry Harney AZ ThA RA MoonSilvered Circles

Today in NYC Rev Susan Davis MoonSilvered Circles

There is a silent sorrow, a numbness that cannot be described. A combination of sensory overload from the 1000's of sirens racing by again and again and the silence of emptied streets where you whisper softly and watch every face.

Hoards of people pass you by, each seeking a way to escape, each person carrying a seed of fear and suspicion that flowers into paranoia growing deeper with each step...until a tiny miracle renews your inner balance. Someone thrusts a damp paper towel into one hand and a small cup of water into the other and urges you to drink and your eyes focus on the world again...

Our eyes meet, so helpless to do anything to really comfort this sorrow, both sets of eyes well with tears and we turn away...but not before a murmured bless you for you gift of kindness...to which she whispers "How could I do any less?" before handing the next passerby a cup of hope and faith. She wore a star of David, I a pentagram, her helper a crucifix...none of that mattered one bit. Religions and cultures fall to the wayside in a time of crisis, replaced by the knowledge that we are all joined in this moment of horror and pain.

So many lives were lost toady...thousands have perished...millions will never be the same...and all for the ideological beliefs of madmen on the other side of the world who believe that this act of cowardice is a victory for their own small goals. How much more blood will pour from their own people because of this act...how many more innocents will be sacrificed? While a part of me fiercely craves someone to blame and punish...another part of me hopes just as strongly that we never know. If we don't have a target to blame we will not multiply this horror by retaliating against still more innocent lives. If I had those before me who masterminded this attack or helped to carry it out...those I would kill without hesitation...but I cannot face the horror of more mothers and babies, grandparents and toddlers being mowed down as a payback.

I cannot comprehend the morally and spiritually deficit personas that demand "My God, not yours" or "This is MY land, not yours." I cannot quite wrap my brain around the kind of mind that justifies the murder of the innocent for the sake of ANY cause, no matter how worthy. I cannot understand the hearts so full of despite and hatred that they are willing to ill you, me, their own family and friends for the sake of some ideal...or a religion whose teaching encourages this and claims that those who act this way will be given a reward by God.

We are all the creations of deity...how can any God demand that some of His/Her creations destroy others of His/Her creation in order to obtain God's favor? I cannot grasp the stupidity and spiritual shallowness that can adopt this belief system...I just cannot. I am too sorrow-ridden and weary to even try. And even on the long slow walk home from the scene of so much horror there were those seeking to incite more violence...cursing one group or another...blaming this one and that one...spewing their hatred and glorying in it.

And the sky was so blue, the breeze so cool today...full of the sounds of birdsong in the empty streets where hundreds of thousands walked on...not knowing how they would get home. We walked to the stridence of the constant scream of sirens and the whispers of terror and shock...slowly making our way home...past the scene of the disaster and out over the water...one of the mass of people slowly making their way on foot toward safety, solace and security.

Perhaps tomorrow I will cry................

MoonSilvered Mom

Please take a moment now and lite a candle so that the way will have light for all those that have found themselves on the other side of the vail.

Thanks AZ ThA RA and TXsueMOM


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