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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 4,696,195  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 129

Lurker/Post Ratio: 254 to 1

Question of the Week: 12 - 10/23/2000

Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election

This week's Pagan Perspective question is a redux of one that we asked about at the beginning of August... And we apologize in advance to our non-United States readers that we have again brought up an issue that is rather exclusive to just one country, but feel free to comment on the shenanigans of the American political system as you see it.) Which political platform or candidate are you leaning towards? Have you made up your mind or changed your mind? Will you vote and who-if you don't mind telling the world-are you planning to vote for? Why have you made this particular choice?

 Reponses:   There are 129 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 


Simple - Al Gore Gets My Vote, If For No Other Reason Than... Oct 24th. at 4:25:15 pm EDT

Scott (Bronx, New York US) Age: 38


Simple - Al Gore gets my vote, if for no other reason than the fact that there are upcoming openings in the High Court, and I certainly do not want that bozo, the Shrub, to be able to select candidates.


At Least George W. Bush Was Honest When He Said "i Don't... Oct 24th. at 3:57:38 pm EDT

blackthorne (Walnut Creek, California US) Age: 35 - Email


At least George W. Bush was honest when he said "I don't think Witchcraft is a religion." This shows his true colors as a complete idiot. However, Our esteemed
Al Gore is hiding his views when he claims "I don't think freedom of religion means freedom from religion." this basically tells us he is for school prayer and anything else christian they want to ram down our throats. I am sick of
the having to choose between the lesser of two evils. It's like choosing between
Hitler and Darth Vader, who do you go with when you know each one is going
to screw you over. I am voting for Ralph Nader, I know he won't win, but my
conscience will be clean. I think a vote for Gore or (shudder)Bush is a vote
for the wrong Party. Gore is a conservative christian in sheeps clothing.
If Bush get's elected, Pagans are going to be in serious trouble. I forsee
a bad future with him in office.
Unfortunately the polls show him winning.
What me worry?


IÕm Changing My Support, And I Shall Vote For Gore, Instead Of... Oct 24th. at 3:54:47 pm EDT

John (Colorado Springs, Colorado US) Age: 33 - Email


IÕm changing my support, and I shall vote for Gore,

instead of voting for Bush as I had planned. About two months ago, I posted an essay here saying I would vote for Bush because I generally supported his positions and because I didnÕt fear him attempting to erode religious freedom for pagans.

Well, after following the link on this weekÕs WitchesÕ Voice to the Òwebwhiteblue.orgÓ website and after I read what Bush said on 15 October 2000 (that he doesnÕt think Witchcraft is a religion and implying he would not let pagans in the U.S. military practice their religion), I have to conclude otherwise about Bush.

I donÕt like doing this; I like BushÕs positions in general. And IÕm **really** tired of voting against someone rather than for someone; IÕm really tired of choosing the lesser of two evils. But if Bush cannot grasp that freedom of religion applies to **all** religions, he just isnÕt fit to be president of the U.S.

Gore **does** support the freedom of religion. And, Gore is the only viable opponent to Bush.

Therefore, I have to vote for Gore to stop Bush from using politics, his authority as commander in chief, and Supreme Court nominations to erode the freedom of religion in the United StatesÉ first against Witches and then against ???

AND TO ALL YOU NADER SUPPORTERS: if I can hold my nose and vote for Gore, so can youÉ if nothing else, to stop Bush. Otherwise, your vote for Nader **shall** translate into a vote for Bush. And with this election being a statistical dead-heat, EVERY vote matters to stop Bush and to therefore preserve the freedom of religionÉ for Witchcraft and for **all** religions.

HOLD YOUR NOSE AND VOTE FOR GORE.

Blessed Samhain !

--John
23 October 2000
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
john_littlew@angelfire.com


IÕve Read So Many Of The Arguments Here In This Forum, And... Oct 24th. at 2:41:47 pm EDT

RAiner J. Weber (Berkeley, California US) Age: 43 - Email


IÕve read so many of the arguments here in this forum, and what strikes me is that they come right out of the fear based campaign trail cut through American politics by the Democrats this season.

Wasting your vote on NaderÉ
The place you waste your vote is on either Gore or Bush. The Democrats have gone so far right that their almost the Republicans. LetÕs say Gore becomes president. He may even do a fair job. He may even pass off some of his deeds as not being sponsored by corporate interest. If that happens the Democrats will run him again against another Republican, and once again we will be asked to Òchoose the lesser evilÓ.

My daughter will be able to vote in two election cycles, and I donÕt want her to choose any evil, not even the smaller of two.

Nader is the only choice that doesnÕt stain your conscience.

Oh, but what about the supreme court? Oh, but what about the ACLU, American Atheists, Americans United for separation of church and state, not to mention our own AREN and WARD?.
I donÕt think that these organizations will let our rights get trampled.

Helping the environment? How about taking the 60% that goes into oil and coal research and putting it into renewable research.

Helping society? Why not stop corporate bail-outs and reinvest in education? Why not treat the drug problem as a health issue and not a criminal one?

Gore and Bush wonÕt even come close to touching those solutions. Because they are beholden to so many different corporations and special interests, and that is who fills their war chest for the never ending battle for control of the power (money) in this country.

So many here have mentioned womenÕs rights. Has Gore or Bush selected a woman to run with?
No, only Nader has. Not only is she a woman, but a card carrying Pagan.

Sure Ralph wonÕt win, but with a good showing there will be a third party that can call the Republicans and Democrats to the task of working for the people and not the corporations. Considering the fact that over half the population will not be voting, a 5% turnout sends a big statement. With 5% comes funding in the next election, and with funding the word can go out to all Americans who donÕt know about Ralph Nader and the Green party.

IÕm willing to guess that many here have heard or read almost nothing about Nader. IÕm also willing to bet that it something to do with the corporate mediaÕs finger in politics.

The Green party web site has the SuperRallies available in streaming audio at their web site.

My favorite among many is
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/nader/boston1.rm
From Boston.

If you want your kids to get a more insidiously, self perpetuating, refined version of politics today, than fall into place and vote from the fear that Bush would be a worse choice than Gore. If you would have your kids living in a progressive/participatory Democracy that could be a model for the world, then vote from your heart.

ÒWe must always be prepared to suffer the consequences of doing the right thingÓ
-Granny D, campaign finance reformer-

Her words put to rest the Òtake a vote from GoreÓ strategy.
http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/odrive/c2k092200_nader.rm
Listen to Crone ÒGranny DÓ speak. Listen to Winnona LaDuke (VP candidate) speak, listen to Phil Donahue as MC and film maker Mike Moore, and listen to Ralph.

For me voting for Gore has the same feel as worshiping hidden in the woods at night. The Ònot BushÓ hysteria sounds a bit like our own self imposed inquisition avoidance tactic.

ÒIf not us, then who? If not now, then whenÓ-Unknown (rather I canÕt recall)

IÕm out as a Pagan, and IÕm out as a Green.
Let the chips fall as the may.

NightHeron
Berkeley, CA


Since The Ars Politica Arena Seems To Only Be Populated By Only... Oct 24th. at 2:22:24 pm EDT

Alumenios (Salem, Massachusetts US) Age: 25 - Email


Since the ars politica arena seems to only be populated by only 2 contenders anymore, (I don't want to think about Nader or Buchanan in office) we have to either vote the lesser of two evils or start a revolution. Since a revolution would have other potentially unfortunate consequences (think Bush and Gore suck? Imagine if some radical revolutionary took up the reins from some sort of coup) we have to stick with what we've got. When you only have chicken and fish on the menu you can't order beef. Maybe if we took the hint from the other constitutional democracies in the world (who have had the benefit of our country's experience and mistakes in writing their more recent constitutions) and incorporate more than two parties. Maybe we should even go whole hog and make potential candidates form coalitions of multiple parties, so that they are endorsing no one single platform or demographic, but choosing the best option available. Isn't that the essence of leadership?
And choosing the best remaining viable option is all we have left, and hope for something better in the future.


I'm Actually Having A Really Hard Time Deciding Who To Vote For... Oct 24th. at 1:47:08 pm EDT

Richard Gant (Northern Kentucky University, Kentucky US) Age: 27 - Email


I'm actually having a really hard time deciding who to vote for (or, more accuratly, vote against). I dislike the presidential candidates of both parties. George Bush seems like a little boy trying to follow in his father's footsteps (and failing - I voted for his father), and Al Gore feels like he was nominated by tradition rather than competence.The third party candidates don't seem any better. I dislike Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan, and I don't even know who the *other* Reform Party candidate is.Perhaps the only element any presidential candidate I've heard about this year has in common with any other presidential candidate is the desire to get elected by telling us as little about their plans as possible while pandering to us as much as possible.Perhaps I'll vote Libertarian this year. I like most of that party's platform, if nothing else.


The Constitution Is At Stake In This Election! It Amazes Me That... Oct 24th. at 1:01:27 pm EDT

Jennifer (Costa Mesa, California US) Age: 28 - Email


The Constitution is at stake in this election! It amazes me that so many American citizens have no idea of the power of the Supreme Court in their own country.

I live in Orange County, CA, a decidedly conservative, republican area. Sadly, everything I hear from the people around here is that they don't like that Gore sighed or walked close to Bush in a debate! Nothing about experience or diplomatic ability. My co-workers will vote the way the President of the company tells them to vote because they don't have the ambition to find out any facts on their own. They will believe what their boss tells them, because it's easier than reading about the issues on their own.

The thing no one seems to be saying about this election is that the effects of your vote will not last a mere 4 years. This next President will likley appoint one Supreme Court Justice if not three or four to a Court that has been divided on every recent decision 5 to 4! A lifetime appointment of those that have the highest authority to interpret our Constitution! These people have the power over our reproductive rights, our privacy rights, affirmative action, and even our right to expression.

This is a vital, vital election to the next thirty or forty years of America. The thought of Christian conservatives on the Supreme Court turning the "Land of the Free" into a theocracy is just too much. Al Gore is not the best man ever to run for President, but he's the best hope for Freedom right now.


I'm Voting For Gore Simply Because He's The Lesser Of Two Evils... Oct 24th. at 12:54:02 pm EDT

xkalaber (Machias, Maine US) Age: 41 - Email


I'm voting for Gore simply because he's the lesser of two evils. I'll admit that in the beginning I was pro Bush because as a future teacher I liked what he had to say about the education field. I'm still not thrilled with Gore's ideas and his mandatory teacher testing, however, there is some value to that but I won't get into that right now.

The main reason Bush lost my vote and Gore is now going to get it is very simple, Bush made the comment that he does not believe that Wicca or any other type of Paganism is a religion, he does not support us in any fashion, he wants it banned from military bases (essentially denying any one in uniform on a military base from their religous practices), and with such an open display of religious bigotry, voting for Bush in my opinion poses a serious threat to this nation's religious freedom (in other words the 1st Amendment could be in real jeopardy). I think the 1st Amendment is just fine the way it is, and I honestly believe that if Bush gets into office, then you can kiss our religious freedom in this country goodbye.

As for Nader, it's simply too little too late, this presidental race is about Bush or Gore and that's the sad truth of it.


I Can't Vote This Year. Missed It By A Month. I'm Really... Oct 24th. at 12:36:13 pm EDT

Shayla Spolidoro (WindSong) (Los Alamos, New Mexico US) Age: 17 - Email


I can't vote this year. Missed it by a month. I'm really upset about this, especially because Bush really scares me. As a woman, handicapped, and pagan about to enter the adult world, there are certain rights I want to ensure.

I might not mind so much if the president wouldn't be electing Supreme Court justices. While a president only last four years, the justice he elects will last the majority of my adult life-time and it is something the next president can't fix.

Sadly, this means that this is not a year to "vote your conscience", especially to a candidate who had money donated to his campaign by Republicans because he is taking so many votes from Gore. Liberalism and idealism are wonderful things, but they are very dangerous in politics. Nader may be a statement, but is that worth what we'll suffer during and after Bush's presidency. Remember that there are spots on the Supreme Court to fill.

Please, consider those who can't vote who will be affected by your vote.

Again, I am terrified by the thought of Bush as president. I may even move to another country if he wins.

I wish you all a wonderful Samhain.


If I Had A Nickel For Every Time I Heard "i'm Voting... Oct 24th. at 12:10:23 pm EDT

Daisy (Hamilton, Ohio US) Age: 24 - Email


If I had a nickel for every time I heard "I'm voting for BushGore, because voting for Nader is essentially a vote for (Pick one), I would easily have enough for that new car I want. If you are going to vote, I say vote your consience and for who you believe would do the job well. Don't just choose the lesser of the two evils. The easy road is not what it is about; if Nader gets enough votes to show significance in the polls, that will send a very real message to the people running the show. Pagans by nature are a very opinionated lot, (I think) and it is beneath us to take the easy way and go against what we believe to be the right way. Let others do that. Nader is the man who sued General Motors for invasion of privacy... AND WON. That speaks of character, strength, and fortitude to me. Personally, I believe he's the man for the job, and I think Winona Laduke is the woman to back him up. Whoever you vote for, please vote for your first choice, not the last. Many Blessings to all,
Daisy


This Is My First Presidential Election... And I'm Just Praying To Get... Oct 24th. at 11:10:42 am EDT

SilverCat (Boston, Massachusetts US) Age: 25 - Email


This is my first presidential election... and I'm just praying to get it over with so I don't have to hear anymore about these two candidates.

I'll be honest-I'm not confident about any of the people running. However, I'm voting for Gore because a vote for Nader *is* essentially a vote for Bush, and between Bush's cluelessness and carelessness in his own state and Dick Cheney's total disregard for women's reproductive rights, it gives me little choice. Freedom of religion has honestly not even been an issue for me (which is sad). I'm much more terrified of the idea that my rights as a woman in regards to health care (selecting an OB/GYN as a primary care physician) and abortion rights (I don't like the idea... but I don't want the option eliminated) are in jeopardy right now. The reality of religious freedom will always be a fight--just look at the Middle East.

The next president will elect several new members of the Supreme Court--I don't want Bush to be given that responsibility. Entirely too many aspects of my life are on the line to risk.

Blessings,
SilverCat


It Seems I Agree With Everyone About Voting The Lesser Of Two... Oct 24th. at 10:41:19 am EDT

Conchita (New York, New York US) Age: 24


It seems I agree with everyone about voting the lesser of two evils (Gore or Bush). However, as much as I think Nader is a "stand-up guy", there are things I would worry about if he were to be in office. Sure he would be great for all the environmental, hunger, religious left wing stuff, but who out there can really see him being effective negotiating a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians or the like. I would love to be idealistic, too, but a huge part of the Presidency is Foreign Policy and Relations. I don't know if I have a lot of faith in Nader in that arena. So, I too will be voting for Gore, if just to keep a very scary George W. Bush out of office. And to reiterate what others have already said... a vote for Nader is, essentially, a vote for Bush.


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