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Question of the Week: 113

Pagan Problem Children: What Can We Do About Them?

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112. Elders: Who Are They and Do We Really Need Them? - [74]

111. So, You’re Dead. Now What? - [59]

110. What’s Your Favorite Element? - [119]

109. The Broom Closet Revisited: What’s Your Current Occupancy Rate? - [129]

108. Do You Speak Pagan Geek? - [38]

107. Would You Be A Good ‘Reality Show’ Contestant? - [49]

106. What Is Your Inner Animal? - [127]

105. Are Pagans TOO Individualistic? - [56]

104. Have You Changed Your Mind About the War in Iraq? - [258]

103. What Are You Reading? - [95]

102. Do Interfaith Conferences/ Discussions Work? - [29]

101. Have You Made Any Extra Security Preparations? - [85]

100. Why Are You A Pagan or Heathen? - [142]

99. What Moon Phase Are You In? - [70]

98. Would You Live In A Haunted House? - [166]

97. What Natural Objects Are On Your Altar? - [103]

96. If You Were Granted Three Wishes... - [179]

95. How Do You Feel About War? - [153]

94. Who Would Make Your Pagan/Heathen Who’s Who List? - [91]

93. Should Pagans Apply For Federal Funds? - [56]

92. What Do You See in 2003? - [47]

90. Which Christmas Ghost Would You Like To Be? - [82]

89. Bah-Humbug! Are You Offended by Christmas? - [173]

88. Are We Alone in The Universe? - [67]

87. The Pagan Web 2002... Your likes? Dislikes? - [50]

86. How’s Your Gratitude Attitude? - [64]

85. What’s Your Motivation? - [97]

84. Between the Veils: What Did You See? - [80]

83. Time to Talk Politics and Elections… - [109]

82. Your Samhain/Beltaine Musings - [50]

81. ExCUSE Me! Has Common Courtesy Become A Thing of the Past? - [97]

80. Polytheist, Monotheist, Dualist or Other? - [104]

79. Have You Switched Pagan Paths? - [110]

78. Would You Take Part in a Public Event or Protest AS a Pagan? - [268]

77. Pot-Kettle: Do We Have Our Own Fundamentalists? - [91]

76. America 911: One Year Later. What's Changed? Are we Safer? - [103]

75. So What Do YOU Think of the Pagan Web? - [43]

74. What is/was your 2002 New Year's resolution - [23]

73. Do You Believe in Faeries? - [44]

72. Is 'Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men' Possible? - [28]

71. How Do YOU View the Balance of Light and Dark? - [22]

70. What's News? - [22]

69. What Are Your Favorite Yule Traditions or Memories? - [17]

68. Are You Wild About Harry? - [80]

67. What Is Music? - [18]

66. What Did You Do this Samhain? - [8]

65. What ARE the most "Frequently Asked Questions' About Witches? - [31]

64. What Are YOUR book/video/dvd Recommendations? - [119]

63. Have You Done Any Protection Spells or Workings? - [38]

62. What Are Your Thoughts On The Current "War on Terrorism"? - [77]

61. Are You Willing To Give Up Some Civil Liberties To Be Safe? - [69]

60. What About Those Pagan Leaders Again? - [289]

59. 911 America: Talking Through The Terror... - [969]

58. What Are Your Plans For Fall? - [21]

57. If You Were Stranded Alone On A Deserted Island... - [56]

56. What Would You Like to See at The Voice? - [65]

55. What Lies Beyond? - [28]

54. What is the connection between Spirit, Nature and Humankind? - [18]

53. What is 'Will' or 'Willpower'? - [19]

52. Have you ever been to a Pagan Festival? - [26]

51. What Did You Think of 'The Mists of Avalon"? - [44]

50. What's Your Magickal Focus? - [33]

49. Ending Religious Discrimination-What's It Gonna Take? - [41]

48. How Fares The First Amendment? - [20]

47. Are you a Talker or a Listener? - [14]

46. Predator and Prey - What Beasts Live Within You? - [44]

45. Who Do You Trust? - [22]

44. Do You Spend Money with Pagan Merchants? - [24]

43. What's On Your Balloon? - [52]

42. Is There An Energy Crisis? - [30]

41. What Makes You So Special? - [33]

40. What is Your Guilty Little Secret? - [101]

39. Who Are Your Gods? - [55]

38. What Are The Greatest Challenges That Pagans Face Today? - [35]

37. What's On Your Altar? - [45]

36. Should the United States Apologize to China - [32]

35. Pagan Web Surfing Likes/Dislike - [60]

34. What Are Your Views on Abortion, Euthanasia and Suicide? - [95]

33. What Is The Appropriate Response to Bigotry and Religious Hatred? - [108]

32. Why Are Kids Killing Kids? - [60]

31. Whassa Matter With Kids Today? - [71]

30. What Do You Support and Why Do You Support It? - [21]

29. How About Some New Holidays? - [39]

28. Where Did You Get Your Magickal Name? - [93]

27. Where Are The Pagan Social Programs? Do We Care? - [22]

26. What Do You Think About Bush's 'Faith-Based' Initiative Plan? - [87]

25. What Are The Boundaries? - [26]

24. What is Pagan History and What is Pagan Belief? - [44]

23. Who or What is a "Pagan Leader"? - [61]

22. What More Do You Want To Know About Paganism? - [45]

21. What is/was your New Year's resolution? - [19]

19. What do YOU of our newest entry into the Presidential Political Pool? - [61]

20. What have YOU done to trace your family history? - [11]

18. Your Gift, Craft and Holiday Celebration Ideas! - [43]

17. Does Older Equal Better? - [199]

16. What is the best gift that you ever received? - [28]

15. What are YOU Thankful For? - [87]

14. The Unresolved US Election - [263]

13. Divination - [29]

12. Pagan Choice for the y2k US Election - [129]

11. Hollywood Hype - [74]

10. Money and the Craft - [82]

9. Pagan Jokes and Humorous Stories - [37]

8. Misconceptions About Witches, Wiccans and Pagans - [63]

7. The Ethics of Magick and Spellwork - [43]

6. What are YOU planning for Mabon-Autumn Equinox? - [14]

5. Pagan books/web sites-dynamic or drivel? - [46]

4. The Broomcloset-In or Out?... What's YOUR View? - [181]

3. Church and State, Religion in School... What is YOUR View? - [122]

2. How Do You Define Witch/WitchCraft? - [42]

1. Who are you going to vote for and why? - [233]

 Author:    Posted: Nov. 17, 2002   This Page Viewed: 17,023,756  

Vox Q Stats

Times Viewed: 32,767

Reponses: 263

Lurker/Post Ratio: 124 to 1

Question of the Week: 14 - 11/6/2000

The Unresolved US Election

Did YOU vote? Which candidate did you vote for? How do you feel about the political wrangling going on right now in Florida? Will/Should either candidate concede for the good of the country-or should either/both fight it out until we all scream for mercy? How do you think either candidate, if declared the winner, will be able to bring the country together given the inference that the election results now point to an America that is almost equally divided into one camp or the other? And the BIG question-What, if any, impact will the final results have on the Pagan communities?

 Reponses:   There are 263 responses posted to this question. Reverse Sort 

I Feel That This Entire Election Has Been A Learning Experience For... Nov 12th. at 3:08:53 pm EST

Gray (Pleasanton, California US) Age: 19

I feel that this entire election has been a learning experience for the American public as a whole. It's already very clear that we are a rather uniformly divided nation, and I would expect that pagan population to reflect the rest of America. I don't think that either candidate will have a good time in office, no matter who gets elected. It will be a pretty choppy four years for the country, so it's hard to say how the outcome of the recount, and the subsequent naming of the president-elect, will impact the pagan community. This is a wait-and-see situation.
On a whole, I think it would be hard for Bush to completely mess things up. He has some rather nasty opinions, but, he will be hard pressed to get support from congress to do something that could possibly lower morale in the army, and/or piss off a lot of people in the civilian population. There are many other areas, such as the Supreme Court, which could be VASTLY effected by his election as president, and it is that fact that worries me the most. His stance on religion is worrisome, but the next president can undo the laws he passes, while a conservative Supreme Court will be seated for a long time to come.
That's why I voted for Al. I don't agree with Bush at all, nor do I think the man is qualified to run the country. Gore has more experience, but I don't think he's the best choice, far from it. But he's "safer". I did not vote Green, because I don't agree with everything Nader says either.
The next man in office will have a hard time uniting the country. Whoever it ends up being, I say to them "good luck". They're going to need it.

I Moved From Tennessee To Louisiana In July And Have Been Mostly... Nov 12th. at 3:08:37 pm EST

Dana (Iota, Louisiana US) Age: 26 - Email

I moved from Tennessee to Louisiana in July and have been mostly broke since that time, also going through some major inertia (those of you who have ever been depressed know what I'm talking about) and just never "got around" to registering to vote, for the first time since 1992. This was the first Presidential election I've missed since I was old enough to cast a ballot.

And you know, I'm angry. I labored under the delusion for so long that while it certainly felt good to vote for my favored candidate, my vote for President really didn't matter because the Electoral College ultimately decides. And I couldn't have been more wrong. The events in Florida prove that even the Electoral College doesn't jump until the voters say "how high." I'd be angry over this situation even if there was a good chance Al Gore will win when the absentee votes are tallied. We shouldn't have had to wait this long to find out who our next President will be. Furthermore, things shouldn't have come to such a pretty pass in our partisan political system that the two major candidates are so much alike that neither had a real lead over the other.

If Ralph Nader had gotten his five percent of the popular vote, I'd dismiss the Gore/Bush battle as just another example of corrupt Republicrat politics. Unfortunately this did not happen, so we get to look forward to another round of childish tantrum-throwing in 2004. In the meantime, I really feel Bush will win, so we get to revisit the Reagan/Bush years all over again. Yee-haw.

Meanwhile, can we all please come to our senses? Bush wouldn't even be an issue if the Democrats had become the majority party in Congress again. He could nominate all the Supreme Court candidates he wanted and he'd have to contend with whether Congress would approve them. This is why we do not have a Justice Robert Bork on the SC now. So it's high time we quit ignoring politics until the Presidential election rolls around... we have to pay attention EVERY election year... local, state, and Congressional candidates have a LOT more effect on our lives than the President does, and we need to *vote accordingly*!

And as for me, I'll never again let my registration lapse. And those of you who want to register and didn't before, check out

I Voted For Bush Because I Fear Al Gores Plan To Disarm... Nov 12th. at 3:08:02 pm EST

Gerald (Richmond , Virginia US) Age: 36

I voted for Bush because I fear Al Gores plan to disarm the honest gun owning Americans.

The Clinton Administration has lied about crime in America and will not give straight answers to the Public.I do not want 4 more years of lies. Fear the Goverment that fears Your guns.

Justice Department Withholds Information Needed for Judging Clinton Administration Enforcement Effort Syracuse, October 4 -- The Justice Department is denying news organizations, public interest groups and the general public access to comprehensive information about how the Clinton Administration has enforced the nationŐs laws.

Check out this link for more info from Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)

FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his mother-in-law pays more than $100.00 for the arthritis medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes the same medicine for $37.00, claiming 'This is wrong!'

FACT: Gore's aides were quick to apologize for Gore's lie, saying the information was from a Democratic study. Washington newspapers also reported that Al Gore wasn't even sure his mother-in-law was taking any medication and wasn't even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn't know anything about his dog's 'arthritis'.

FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a champion of civil rights during the 1960's.

FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of using the 'N' word.

FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very first person to join the Peace Corps.

FACT: By the time Gore's sister joined the Peace Corps, there were already over 100 members.

FICTION: The same sister died of lung cancer years later and Gore vowed to never accept tobacco money as campaign contributions.

FACT: Just four years later, while campaigning for office, Gore spoke to the tobacco industry and said he was one of them because 'I've planted it, raised it, cut it, and dried it.' He raised over $100, 000 in 'reported' contributions.

FICTION: While running for office, Gore's campaign literature claimed he was a 'Brilliant Student'.

FACT: Washington newspapers said he barely passed Harvard and consistently earned D's and C's.

FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a result of his extensive study at law school.

FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.

FICTION: Gore claimed that his knowledge of God and spirituality came to complete fruition while 'finishing' divinity school.

FACT: Al Gore dropped out of divinity school.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed responsibility for inventing the Internet in the 1990's.

FACT : Shocked scientists were quick to speak out, explaining that the Internet had been in widespread use by government and educational institutions since the early 1970's.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed the book 'Love Story' was based on his life and Tipper's.

FACT: Author Erich Segal called a press conference to deny his claim. (Couldn't he at least lie about a love story where his sweetheart doesn't die?'

FICTION : Gore claimed that as a reporter for a Nashville newspaper, his stories led to the arrests of numerous corrupt criminals.

FACT: He later apologized for his claim and actually said it was untrue (Also known as lying).

FICTION: Gore claims to increase diversity in the staff that follows him daily, especially among blacks.

FACT: Black members of the Secret Service are suing because they claim they are not being promoted to positions guarding the Vice-President.

FICTION: Al Gore said he was the first to discover the Love Canal nuclear accident.

FACT: The incident was already discovered, being investigated, and covered widely in the press for many months before Gore was aware of it.

FICTION: Gore said just recently that if elected president, he would put harsh sanctions on the sleazy producers of Hollywood's extreme sex and violence.

FACT: Just six days later, Gore attended a fundraiser by Hollywood producers and radical gay activists where he told them that he would only pretend to 'nudge them' if elected. He raised over $4 million.

FICTION: Al Gore said he built his Tennessee home with his bare hands.

FACT : Totally false!

FICTION: Al Gore says parents should not have a choice between private and public schools because public schools are far better.

FACT : Al Gore attended private school and he has sent his children to private schools.

FICTION: Al Gore remembers his mother lulling him to sleep as a baby by singing the popular ditty, 'Wear The Union Label'.

FACT: The popular ditty was created by the unions when Gore was 27 years old.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed to co-sponsor the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Act.

FACT: The Act was not sponsored until he had been out of office for over a year.

FICTION: Al Gore claims to be instrumental in keeping gas prices low.

FACT: Gore has voted on numerous occasions to raise the tax on gasoline. In his book 'Earth In The Balance' Gore claims that the nation's Number One enemy is the internal combustion engine. (That's the motor in your vehicle that gets you to work and takes your kids to school)

FICTION: Gore pretends to champion the rights of poor women to be tested regularly for breast cancer with the most modern technology.

FACT: While giving a speech on the subject in September, Gore didn't know what a mammogram was.

FICTION: AL Gore promised Florida's senior citizens that they would finally have low-cost drugs with no interference from government.

FACT: Gore's plan calls for the creation of a huge federal agency that would tell you which doctor you are allowed to see in order to get the 'special rates'.

FACT: Al Gore told NBC's Lisa Meyers that he had never told a lie. When Meyers pressed harder, 'You've never told a lie?!' Gore said, 'Not that I know of.'


Well, Shoot. I Hate To Do This Because A) I'm Sure I'm... Nov 12th. at 2:40:56 pm EST

Cat (Asheville, North Carolina US) Age: 33

Well, shoot. I hate to do this because a) I'm sure I'm probably one of dozens or hundreds who will respond with outrage and b)folks who write hostile feedback on other folks' boards no doubt listen to no one, but...I guess it needs doing. This is a response to what appears, as of 2:23 Sunday afternoon, EST, November 12, by Kelly Steed, declaring that she (or he) voted for Bush and is "damn proud of it". Steed disses a number of Wiccan beliefs and perpetuates a number of stereoptypes in the process. I'm sure most pagans know already what I'm going to say, but just in case Steed is actually looking for a response (unlikely, I know), here it is.

1) Yes, some of us read history. Yes, neo-Wicca as we know it today is largely derived from Gardnerian practice (somewhat earlier than you claim, however.) I also have little patience with the sometimes relentless Angliphilism of some pagans and Wiccans. But in light of the fact that neo-pagans of all sorts are associated (equally relentlessly) with medieval and colonial "witches" *by many Christians*, it isn't too unreasonable to be afraid that what happened to them can happen to us. The (relatively little) we know about medieval and colonial "witchcraft" suggests that older paganism and neopaganism have certain common traits, one of which is their treatment by devout Christians. The (relatively much) that we know about what happens to neo-pagans now who are "out of the broom closet" suggests that we are justified in worrying about persecution of our own--and not just a dirty look or some name-calling. I know that in my job I do not feel safe discussing my religion.

2) "Most" Wiccans do not practice nude, to the best of my knowledge and belief; in fact, I have never met any who did. Even if a given group believed that nudity was the way to go, I doubt that they could do it year-round outdoors without contracting frostbite, JAG's pretty pictures to the contrary. And if they did, how many rapists would assail whole covens of nude women and men, who, contrary to your assertions, are a large part of Wicca? To hang institutional intolerance on one not-very-prevalent custom and a gender stereotype says more about your ignorance of history and of Wiccan custom than about any expressed at Witchvox.

3) I doubt there's room in this forum to discuss the assumptions which underlie your beliefs that
a) the world is full of people dying to "take us over" (just who were you thinking of, anyway?);
b) the only way to freedom is a strong military (which, historically, we have used less for defending personal freedoms than for protecting our perceived economic interests--or what did you think the Gulf War was? WWII was our last war for freedom; reduced access to oil would be a profound inconvenience, but the only real "freedom" it would affect is our erroneous concept that we have a God-given "right" to gas-guzzling private vehicles without regulation);
c)that George W. Bush's record expresses a concern for freedom in general (before you come critiquing our history, you should read *his* record, including how he acquired the land for his professional sport's team's stadium at taxpayer expense.) Answering these fully would require a book. However, these points and others suggest that your own grasp of history is less firm than your feeling of general outrage against neo-pagans and witches. One question: why? What is it we do that's got you so upset? Voted for Gore? I hate to tell you, Steed, but the freedom to vote the way we want IS a constitutional freedom. Coming onto this board screaming about your choice isn't going to change that, praise be.

Like I said, I've never responded to another response this way, never felt I had to, hope I never have to again, and suspect that others have beaten me to it. But it seems to need doing. Sorry, everyone. Steed's probably long gone flaming other boards anyway.

Alright, So I Couldn't Vote Due To My Age. But, As I... Nov 12th. at 2:32:54 pm EST

Lindsey Gale (Orlando, Florida US) Age: 15 - Email

Alright, so I couldn't vote due to my age. But, as I have a huge interest in politics, and so do my non-pagan parents, I was very involved in this election by working on the Bush campaign here in Orlando, Florida. Yes, I supported Bush. I didn't agree with him on every issue, but this is not a one issue election. I will not take what looks like the "popular" stance among pagans and say that Gore was the best candidate simply because Bush doesn't agree with my personal religious beliefs. Quite frankly, I can see why he doesn't think Wiccans should be allowed to hold their ceremonies at Army bases. If you're in the Army, you do not get the same rights as average Americans while you are on duty. You know that when you enlist. If Wiccans insist on using knives in theirrituals at bases, and practicing them nude, and so on, then no, they shouldn't be allowed to hold them on Army bases. You can worship the Gods without dancing nude and waving a knife around aimlessly.

Second, I'm tired of all the attacks here on Jeb Bush, my governor who I whole-heartedly support, and the accusations that he 'fixed' the election. It's downright hilarious! How can you try to blame Jeb for the 'confused' seniors in Palm Beach with their butterfly ballots? Let me remind you that a Democrat designed them, Democrats okayed them, and they are used in many other counties in the country which Gore carried. It's sad, really, that someone who ahs been voting for decades cannot understand what an arrow pointing to a dot means. My 5 year old cousin understood it! If it was a bingo card, would they have had such a hard time?

Now, onto the electoral college. In my opinion, it is a good thing. If we didn't have the electoral college, New York, California, Texas, and Florida could basically determine who the president was. That is simply wrong. Those three states to do not represent the majority of the American people. Let me also sya that no, the majority of America does not want Gore in office. First of all, 50% of Americans didn't vote, so 50% of people couldn't care less, which is a whole other story. Gore had 49% of half of the country vote for him. That means 51% of half the country doesn't want him in a 100 mile radius of the Oval Office! Just like the our current Perjuruer In Chief.

This whole situation brings to mind a well known story in a book that Wiccans seem to hate with a passion for no good reason...the Bible. Let me call to mind a story involving a baby, two women, and a kind named Solomon. When both women claimed that the baby was theirs, Solomon decided that he would slice it in half so that each women could have the baby. The first woman agreed, and urged him to do it. The second woman conceded, and said that she would rather see her baby raised by someone else then killed. In my mind, Gore is the first woman. He is showing that he cares not for the country, but for his own ego. He is dividing the country because he can't believe that he lost.

If this election is overturned , then there will be some serious changes in how I live my life. For example, I will no longer take part in any American holidays, such as Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, and so on. Why will I turn my back on holidays that celebrate member sof my family who gave their blood and their lives for this country? Because Al Gore, the media, and all those who think these recounts are a good thing have spit on their graves and said that their sacrifices mean nothing. You might as well dance on the graves of those who fought and died.

I Voted For Bush And I'm Damn Proud Of It. The Republicans... Nov 12th. at 12:41:09 pm EST

Kelly Steed (Harrison Township, Michigan US) Age: 35

I voted for Bush and I'm damn proud of it. The Republicans are the only party who care about whether America remains a free nation in that they support a strong military. For the last eight years, we've had a draft dodger, traitor, sex offender and crook in the White House and now those idiots from New York have put his crooked wife into office. The Democrats embarassed America in front of the entire world. Clinton should have been impeached. He lied under oath and if any of us had done that we'd be in prison right now.

When our troops were in Somalia on a humanitarian mission they were shot down in the streets. Clinton did nothing. Equipment was requested by out soldiers but it was never sent because Clinton and his cabinet refused to ask Congress for it. A unit was sent in to do a job that they weren't trained for and they all got killed. They drug our soldier's bodies through the streets like they were trophies and nothing was done. When our embassies were bombed, Clinton only responded to take some of the heat off himself. Now the USS Cole was attacked and sailors died. The next day a British embassy was bombed. We need a president who will defend us. During the Gulf War the Congress was Democratic, George Sr. had to call up our National Guard Units to fight a war. That's just plan wrong our standing army should have been stronge enought to handle it. The National Guard is for home defense. Why did this happen? Because the Democratic Congress had cut our military to the bone. You better worry about keeping your freedom as an American and worry about your religion second because if we get taken over, I guarantee your religious freedom will be gone forever.

I know a number of self-proclaimed Wiccans who still celebrate Thanksgiving, the holiday which celebrates the winter survival of the Puritans, the people who killed witches in the 1690's. They also celebrate Christmas and Easter. They also have their children baptised in Christian churches to make their families happy. No true Pagan would celebrate the holidays of the greatest religious repressers in the world. Until you clean house other Pagan groups are not going to band together with you.

AS FOR THE BURNING TIMES, have any of you ever done any historical research at all? Wicca was started in the 1950's by Gerald Gardner and other than borrowing certain it is not an ancient Pagan faith. The people executed in the United States for Witchcraft were hanged not burned and one was crushed to death. They were not Wiccans and you cannot claim them. In fact, their accusers were the ones practicing witchcraft through Tituba and got caught. They claimed they were bewitched to save their own hides.

AS FOR THE BURNINGS IN EUROPE, Jews, Gypsies, the elderly especially widows, landed people (without any royal friends were burned because the church had the right to confiscate the property of condemned witches.) If any of these groups
were practicing any form of Paganism it would have been a form native to their cultures. They weren't Wiccans and you can't claim them either. If for one, am tired of Wiccans misrepresenting history! If you want to claim them as martyred Pagans, in general, that could be supported.

Under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights Pagans cannot be denied their right to practice their religion regardless of what faith that happens to be. If Bush has a problem with Wiccans in the military, it is probably because most hold their sabats in the nude and that is not appropriate on a military base. Why? Because not all of our soldiers are exactly reputable people. Women by and large, and most Wiccans I have met are women, are still second class citizens in the military. We don't have equal rights and many female personel get victimized by men. Holding a nude sabat on a base is just asking for someone of a low character to rape you.

Egyptian Cult of the Dead

Yes, I Voted. I Have To Add That I Did So Reluctantly... Nov 12th. at 12:20:39 pm EST

J. P. DeMeritt (League City, Texas US) Age: 43 - Email

Yes, I voted. I have to add that I did so reluctantly -- not because I was impressed by the vision of any of the candidates, but because I was concerned that one of the candidates opposed my beliefs more than the others.

I have to agree with a previous writer that we need an alternative to the present two party system. I believe we've already seen several versions of that alternative. One is the Reform Party, which has organized quickly and posted impressive results in its outings at the polls. However, the Reform Party has no vision beyond being an alternative to the Republican and Democratic Parties. They've proven, nonetheless, that the conventional parties can be successfully challenged. And that's a start!

The second alternative lies in the success of grassroots protests like the WTO protest in Seattle last year. Organized largely over the Internet, protests like these prove that public opinion can be rapidly mobilized without recourse to standing organizations like conventional political parties -- all that's really needed is a candidate with true vision who can clearly communicate a concrete, compelling image of a highly desirable future. What remains is that people honestly interested in promoting good government find such people and bring them to the attention of the rest of us! I believe that if we can find people with such images of the future, we can find leaders who will truly motivate the people -- and they'll vote for the future!

As for the current election . . . I think it's extremely interesting to note that the leaders of the Republican Party are currently claiming that machine counting votes is more accurate than hand counting, yet they were the same ones who protested that the Census had to be accomplished through a 100% enumeration instead of the statistical methods experts proclaim as more accurate!

Finally, remember that even though the projections give the election to one candidate or the other, the Electoral College has yet to meet and cast their votes. They may yet elect the candidate the American people most support.

I wish this country good luck!

I Voted For Gore. I Don't Believe Gore Is The "perfect Candidate... Nov 12th. at 12:04:55 pm EST

SpiritFlame (Phila, Pennsylvania US) Age: 28

I voted for Gore. I don't believe Gore is the "perfect candidate" but I believe he is much better than Bush. I don't trust Bush. Anyone who talks about how "my daddy didn't get me here" probably got there on his father's coattails. Also, it makes me very nervous that the NRA and the religious right support him. And as much as I consider myself pro-life, since I don't trust Bush, I don't want him deciding not only on abortion, but also possibly on birth control, fertility, and other areas of a woman's life that the president has no business being involved in.
Echoing some other comments in this section -- I really detest that Bush feels that Wicca is not a true religion. It's true to me! It is a huge part of my life! Jesus Christ is not a part of my life -- does that mean that Christianity is not a true religion because I don't believe in it? I think Bush should leave the business of judging the validity of religions to the Goddess (or, in his case, God). If he becomes president, will we as Wiccans lose our freedom of religion because of one man's opinions? I think there is a lot at stake here.
It seems to me the entire system of election is falling apart. First Florida, now four or five other states are considering recounts, and there's talk of lawsuits to have a new vote, there's talk of fraud by brother Jeb -- just a huge, huge mess. I wonder what other nations are thinking of us right now? Probably laughing their behinds off.
On the one hand, I want this finished, and I want the endless media analysis to stop (they're going in circles). On the other hand, I really, REALLY want Gore to win because he is for middle class families and religious freedom, and I'm thinking that, maybe, if they count long enough, he'll turn out to be the winner.... Have we really come a long enough way in history that one man wouldn't bring us back to the witch hunts (modern day version of banning things and censorship, of course)?

I Voted For Nader. My S.o. Voted For Browne. I Don't Care... Nov 12th. at 10:17:42 am EST

sabine (Milwaukee, Wisconsin US) Age: 39

I voted for Nader. My S.O. voted for Browne. I don't care for either of the main candidates, and I'd like to see more choices than the two-party system affords. However, I'd rather see Gore win than Bush.

I Voted For Gore. Both Candidates Will Face Incredible Opposition From All... Nov 12th. at 9:30:46 am EST

Mino (Naples, Florida US) Age: 42 - Email

I voted for Gore. Both candidates will face incredible opposition from all the hoop-la that the close election has brought to this country. This will promote further distrust between republicans and democrats.

IMHO, pagan communities will continue to gel and swell under any presidency. Human planetary 'good-citizenship' would be served best under Gore. Bush would allow more destruction of the environment necessary to maintain the human existence. Nobody really knows what a president can accomplish from his political platform due to opposition in congress and senatorial debate.

The big question is: What power does an individual have in this country? The Electorial College IS an important consideration in a presidential election. It represents the governmental concerns of large populations in geographical areas.
It is more of a socialist approach however, and should not overrule the Popular Vote, which is democracy in its purest form.

I think that a presidential candidate should be required to carry BOTH the Electoral College AND the Popular Vote. If there is a split, then there should be a run-off election between the two candidates, by Popular Vote. The American People would then decide the outcome, instead of the American Political Process.
This election being so close REQUIRES that votes be recounted in all areas of the country where the margin of victory was less than 5% ! Fair is fair.

I Voted For The Rede In The Form Of The Libertarian Platform... Nov 12th. at 3:02:07 am EST

Trickster (Austin (belly of the beast), Texas US) Age: 42 - Email

I voted for the Rede in the form of the Libertarian platform. And tho there is no clear winner between Gush and Bore, I feel we are all losers as far as president goes. Neither seems to have the words "freedom" or "liberty" in their vocabularies. Their idea of smaller government is to limit how much it will grow. I do feel, however, that we did win one battle. The Green party failed to achieve their goal of 5% and thus does not qualify for federal matching funds next time. I'm tired of involuntarily financing two campaigns which I do not support, and the idea of paying for a third totally disgusts me. Especially when I freely contribute to the party of my choice which will never take tax dollar one to hype their candidate. As for Florida...

Lemme tell ya story 'bout a man named Jeb

counted up the votes and he told a little fib

folks picked Buchannan when they really wanted gore

misplaced some ballots and they threw away some more

foiled that is

out cold

Texas spree

Well the first thing ya know Al Gore is screamin' "foul!"

he said "Hell no! I won't throw in the towel!"

folks said "DC is the place you oughta be!"

so he loaded up the lawyers and lit out from Tennessee

shills, that is

loop holes

votin' farce

I wish that we could say goodbye to Jeb and all his kin

cause citizens are losers all, no matter which one wins

but they'll be comin' back next week with lawyers and daddy

we'll get a heapin' bellyful of the George Bush family

ballots count off

wait a spell

y'all get no Slack now, ya hear?

(the Florida Bushbillies by Trickster & Moonowl)

I Did Vote And I Am Pretty Disgusted With The Way Florida... Nov 12th. at 1:37:59 am EST

Bethany (Phoenix, Arizona US) Age: 39

I did vote and I am pretty disgusted with the way Florida handled the election process in the first place. They definitely made the ballot confusing and when they found people voting for two candidates or for a disproportionate amount for Buchanan they just threw the double ballots out and did not question it. You know this is the Year of the Dragon and the year of extremes. The ongoing election fraud and mishandling of ballots was eventually going to come to a head. We are probably just touching the tip of the iceberg of what has gone on for years, and now that we are in the "information age" we are more informed on the questions we are facing on the election. I dont think anyone should concede because we are already have a President until January. But we do need to get a handle on this situation whether it be decided federally or by a judge. I shake at the thought that we as country elected someone so alien to the environment as George W., I shudder to think if he appoints Justices to the Supreme Court that reverse all the gains we have made especially in women's right to chose. You I saw a program that said that George W. was a "C" student and he got through Yale and a business college with a "C" average and now he will President and being responsible for rather complex decisions and diplomacy in the new millenium which by the way comes in 2001. Thank for allowing me to voice my opinion as I live in a relatively conservative state and much of the people SURROUNDING me are Republicans.

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