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The Witches' Voice made the decision from day one to evolve this web site based on your input. What does our community think about... Spam, ethics, commercialism of the Craft, politics etc. So many questions are hotly debated. In this chapter of WitchVox we simply ask hard questions directly to the community itself. New surveys will pop up from time to time and be announced on the WitchVox home page.
 Author: Pagan Community    Posted: Sep. 1, 1999   This Page Viewed: 15,224  

WitchVox Survey #2 - Spam
Duration: August 23rd through August 28th 1999
Results: Posted the first week of September 1999
Survey Results: Click HERE for the actual results of this survey.
General thoughts on Spam... ONE - TWO - THREE - FOUR - FIVE - SIX

Community Comments on Spam in General PAGE #2
(FOR Community Thoughts on "PAGAN SPAM" specifically. Click HERE)

I think it is rude to be put on mailing lists paper or electronic without permission. I feel it can be dangerous for those who are in the closet gay witch or both. The only way I can see this controlled is having fines similar to telemarketing andor revoking access. - silvermoon

i am on aol so i have the ability of blocking email from spammers. i got on a list from some xtians who had gone thru and found the word church in all the members profiles. i have listed that i am a member of the church of all worlds and started getting all this crap with biblical verses they werent proseltyzing they thought they had like minded people. but then that led to some athiest sending a bunch of us emial with his rants and he got blocked as well. i find it very frustrating but handled it on my end. for folks who dont have the ability to to block unwanted email i could see why they would be very angry. - urth

Spam is having JUNK MAIL in your mail box.Some people have NO JUNK MAIL on there letter box maybe we should do the same thing.Government could solve the problem but the internet crosses so many borders that this will can not happen.WE NEED TO VOICE OUR ANGER AT THOSE DOING IT TO US.Not at VOX.Something has to be done but who is going to do it.ALL OF US. - MofTheG

Although it peeves me to no end that people would take advantage of such a great forum as the Witches Voice like this I dont think its the Witches Voice responsibility to stop them. You have stated planely on your page that these addys are not to be used for spam that should be the extent of your responsibility. You have better things to do than to waste time on these idots. I personally just delete this stuff. I dont even read it. I know which lists I have subscribed to which organizations I have requested information from. I delete all the rest. I think everyones capable of hitting a delete key. And maybe if wed stop making such a big deal out of this stuff the spammers would realize that they arent getting any attention out of this particular form of advertising and stop. - Ayala Blakewolf

If trying to fight this is consuming too much time then stop. You all are not responsible for the actions of spammers. I really have not been all that adversely affected by spam just mildly to a bit more annoyed. Id rather see you focus on other issues. I can take care of spammers myself.. grin. - Minerva Cloudsinger

Sigh. As much as I despise Spamming I think it is part of the scene that is here to stay. While we spend many hours complaining about the spamming it helps to keep in mind that 10 years ago it would have been virtually impossible to communicate with the vast number of pagans we now are able to talk with. The events of this past year have shown just how powerful a communication tool we have in the Internet. Although I am often angered by the volumn of spam in my mail some pagan some not I am convinced that it is a small price to pay for a level of communication that allows our community to be as aware and interconnected as it is. - Jason J. Blodgett-McDeavitt

I work for an ISP. We have a no spam policy. We make sure that all reports of spam from our domain are investigated. When it is found out that a user on our domain is guilty we stop it emmediatly. All ISPs can do this and they should. Spam could be all but wiped out if they would.As far as what has happened here. There is nothing that you could have done about it. The addresses are there for public consumption and they have to be. Otherwise what you are doing wouldnt have worked. Throughout history people have taken the good works of good people and used them for their own personal gain. That is the way it is. All that you can do is to continue doing the good that you do. The evil that is done by others will return three-fold. Let them dig their own pits. They will fail in the end and you will be better for it. - Liam

Generally when I get spam I check the headers and report them to the provider. My fiance is a sysadmin and generally gets responses. - Selena FireSinger

Personally I like fried spam however I dont like it in my email box. Spam is on the rise and its really starting to piss people off. I was one of the people that got spammed from the Witches Voice hiest and I responded to the person who sent it in a less than polite manner. I do not hold any fault on Witches Voice but those who start the spam ball rolling. And one thing I want to know is why do the porn sites need to disguise their spam they obviously know that people dont want to see it otherwise theyd address it as what it is. Enough of the witch burnings its time to burn some spam. - Marc Prophesie Khepera spam burner

It really depends on the mail. If I get a Just wanted to let you know were here and have a service for you. once then I dont mind. But if they mail over and over I get mad.I help run a buisness and I understand that its important to let people know were here. But when we send out announcements like that we only send one and then if the person doesnt send us any e-mail or requests we leave them alone. If someone writes us and says dont send me any more mail. we appologize for bothering them and leave them alone. I think thats how it should be done. - Raven Summersong

I find it completly dispicable.I put my name on the witchs voice contact list for networking purposes not so I would recieve unsolicited spam. If the person doing this is reading this I truly hope you are ashamed of yourself. The most you will ever accomplish with this garbage is a bunch of angery people and clogged up internet traffic.And I would like you to know every bit of unsolicited e-mail I get I file away in my brain so I remember NOT to purchase from that person or that company. Im sure Im not the only one - Betsy

spamming is like having your electronic door knocked by a salesperson trying to cold sale an item or service. If I want something I will go out and research it and look for it. I treat it the same way as I would treat snail mail. I return to sender saying take me off your list. The same as door knockers sorry I dont require your service with politeness. OR telephone spam. sorry I dont accept calls of this nature. It leaves a yucky aftertaste. I am polite the first time. For second offenders I am a bit firmer reporting them to whatever authority is pertinent. The third time they get deleted and put on readers digest list. Let them try and get away from them. - forestmuse

I dont like to get mass e-mail from accounts at diffrent orgianzation such as has 3 diffrent mass e-mails which they send you when you goin there account or geocities and geocities is the worst a while ago they gave out peoples info willingly to anyone who asked but I never entered anything real besides my e-mail - CailS

Some of the usolicited mail could be offensive. Sometimes I do ignore it unless it persists. Then I write back but sometimes that does not work if there isnt a real human being on the recieving end. Maybe you should start a free membership circle. I cannot say that will solve the e-mail thieves but it may just make them think twice about spamming anyone here Brightest Blessings to you and yours -

Unsolicited email is giving processed meat products a bad name. - Dorothy Bixler

I do not feel that government involvement would really help here. There are spammers in other countries. ISPs need to take the responsibility of stopping their customers from sending unsolicited email. Personally it does not bother me too much as I have set up mail filters and most spam goes straight to the trash. I still find it obnoxious but I dont feel it is the responsibility of the website or list owner when I get spammed. It is technically impossible to stop people from taking addresses from you and it will wear you down. I do appreciate the effort you are making to stop this as I have never seen anyone take such action before. Kudos but if it is wearing you out I would say do not worry about it. How is this for no punctuation.... - Jen

Unsolicited mail is the bane of any Internet users existence especially those of us that work in an Internet-related field. Aside from the clutter one of the most annoying problems with many of these lists is that the protocol to remove yourself from the list often fails to work properly. I think it is up to the web site hosts and related companies to enforce anti-spam policies. Sites like WitchVox are victims just as those who recieve the mail. And lets face it people who make their livings through spam are not generally the type to take a persons complaints to heart. Sadly their Internet hosts punishment is often the only thing able to curb their behavior. - MossAgate

I equate spammers to unsolicited phone salespeople. I refuse to do business with people I didnt choose for a specific reason. And to have someone force their product or idea down my throat without asking is rude to say the least.If I want to do business with these people then let their merit and ingenuity be what drives the decision. Not their ability to steal my Email address from someone. - Jim M.

I TYPICALLY just delete spam but on occasion I go through the effort to attempt to reply track the fictional address to their ISP and inform them about their client. I have on several occasions recieved e-mail from the abuse@ people that the offending spammer has lost their account. In WA state if I can prove Ive been spammed in narrowly defined way I can take them to small claims and get 500. Havent done that yet but I confess to having rich and varied fantasies of paying for my album project this way. OFF TOPIC Sending you ooddles of healing vibes heart massage love etc. - Chris Bingham

I dont buy products from companies that solicit me. If I want to buy something _Ill_ go looking for a supplier. I dont want advertising emailed to me nor do I respond to telephone solicitation anything I receive snail-mail that I _didnt_ ask for gets dumped in the trash... - Brisingamen

Every now and then I dont mind receiving something such as a notice regarding someones artwork but generally I hate spam as it seems a large portion of it is smut or marketing. I really believe that the spammers web provider should be notified and hopefully then barred from their service. I do feel that it is unfair that you should have to put so much time energy and effort into it. I wish I had a better solution for ridding the web world of spam. Good fortune to you in your efforts. - Lady Anwyn Silvermoon

I have many e-mail addresses that I get spamed on but others that I *never* get spamed on. Hotmail and Yahoo are the worst however Juno and Latinmail receive almost no spam. It is not your responsibility to stop the spammers though you are wonderful in the steps you have taken to stop them. I normally just delete spam that I receive though on occasion if I receive massive amounts of spam from one person I will ask to be removed. I have found that many times the only way to be removed from the -list- is a long distance - Irysa

Keep fighting these jackasses. I am so tired of getting mass emailings. I dont think Ive gotten any from the Witchvox site but I do get them from other sources. Its as bad as getting junk mail in the mailbox. - Mountain Woman

My typical reaction to repeated and unwanted spam is to block the server or the mail address responsible. My service provider provides a mechanism for doing this. This has only resulted in one conflict with someone who I wished to receive email from who was using a provider that I had blocked.This is a survey for which I am looking forward to seeing the results ... - Matt Harber

I believe the policies of a site should be known understood and respected. If I see a published policy that my info might be sold or must not be sold or is not intended for a specific use then I must make my own judgment whether or not to provide information or what information to provide. If someone takes information and uses it contrary to the policies of the site then that taker should be held responsible. I am reluctant to involve the government in this but i can see no other neutral regulatory body to enforce such policies. - John Purcell Starrider

Number 6 is a difficult question to answer. Ultimately the responsibility lies with the sender of the email. But they obviously are not going to cease. I hesitate to see the government enacting laws and placing the burden on the service providers will increase costs for all. The only clear answer to that question is that the website where the email was harvested from is completely blameless. The only option is to not post email addressess otherwise they will be harvested by spiders. Until technology is developed to allow more control I do the only things I can. Filter out the junk report spam to and be wary about whom I give my true email address to. - David Bloxsom

I tried and tried to get off of some spammers lists. I have typically two outcomes when I try to follow the suggestions to get me off....I either get a message saying that the spammers dont have me on their list in the first place OR they say ok and I still get the mail. Thank gods for filters. - Kember Chism

The reason I do not like spam is that I have not asked for it. It comes into my mailbox and clutters it. That means I have to go delete it or even block the sender.Often it is not even about things I am interested in.So I think the fight against spam is an important one. Spam only generates angry feelings. That is a bad thing.Spam also clogs the Internet with stuff very few people ever read. that way it is like advertising. That leaves less bandwith for the things that people care about. Bandwith is a scarce resource and should be treated accordingly.As well I like to have control of who haves my address. - Rafaella

I am starting to get more and more spam every day. I am currently using a system call SPAMCOP at to help me deal with it. Perhaps you should check it out. - Will Hartzo Magickal

Pending a complete moral awarness by the ISPs. I do not think there is an easy answer. So until then maybe the best thing we can do is not get angry and just delete it making the practice of SPAM unprofitable. The bottom line is this. It is all about profit if there spam generates a hit onto Spammers websites. Do not follow there bait make it costly for them - Rev Owle

To question 6 above I marked I think I just dont know.I have been told that repsonding to spam with the message of Remove Me From Your Email List may in fact increase the amount of junk email you get.I maintain that it is easiest for recipients to DELETE spam. It is simple and quick. I believe in the threefold law and that the spammers will get what they deserve from the universe in one way or another. By getting very upset at them you allow them to manipulate you. This of course may only apply to simple spamming. I have never recieved huge amounts of spam except on Free email accounts.I greatly appreciate all you do at the Witches Voice. I guess that you are doing all you can do against spam by telling spammers they are not welcome. Possibly issuing some apologies is worth while. However my guess is that you have much better things to do. You are in a public way by producing Witchvox and you will never be able to counter every permutation of wrongful use done by others. Follow your hearts and if I ever receive spam I will hit that delete button and move on.BlessingsRenata - Renata Jass

Merry Meet It gets very irritating. I consider myself to be a tolerant person but when someone takes advantage of another sites email listing especially the people themselves I get very frustrated. If I had wanted them to spam me or send me their emails I would have listed with them. But I havent. This is not proper netiquette and its very rude. I have listed with Witchvox because I love this website. Thank you for your time Witchvox Staff. - DragonWylde

I receive your email explaining what had happen and decided that you did need another message in your mailbox so I did not respond but I wish to thank you Fritz and Wren for your your quick action on this. - Rifty

Spamming is a very annoying thing to have to deal with everytime you go online but its really not worth all of your frustration. As long as these people arent sending viruses to names they get off of websites it really isnt too bad. I certainly do think it is rude but the best we can do is to ignore it. That way we get to keep our sanity. These meanies will get theirs eventually Blessed Be - Luise Baer

I have been receiving a lot of spam mail lately and it is bothersome but most of the time I simply place the address it came from on my block senders list which Hotmail provides I dont know if other email services offer that feature Most of the time when I ask to be taken off their mailing list I keep getting mail from them anyway.It is a business owners right to advertise their business but if people are not interested then they should respect their wishes and stop sending junk. - Narisah

I dont believe as I think many people that post their addresses on the net that mass e-mailing for ones own benefit is socially magickally or politically correct. Its not that it hurts anyone its just that its annoying. And I for one do not think kindly to all the people who steal addresses for their own use. I dont usually respond. I delete because I post my e-mail on various site and message boards and I have no idea where the spammer got it from. - Calman Geal

I have taken steps to decrease the amount of spam I receive through e-mail filters and the like but SPAMers always seem to find ways around them. I currently dont receive any email at my aol account due to spammers filling my mailbox. I only hope they dont find my companys mailserver - Howard Riggs

While I dont like spam I dont think you should be wearing yourselves out over it. When I get spam I simply delete it and hit BLOCK SENDER - Rowan Amergin

The only way Id like to see spamming stopped is by the free will of those who do it. Much as I hate spam Id hate putting a muzzle on the First Amendment even more. - Trickster

If I have an option between these people using email or paper Ill take email every time. I dont distain free enterprise but Ive never looked at a piece of mail like this for a moment. I just delete it.Anger usually comes from fear or hurt and most often feelings of disrespect. I dont feel disrespected. A little annoyed that I have to click an extra button or two yes. But if someone is feeding their kids by this enterprise I wont deny them the opportunity of finding a market for their wares. - Dianna

We d like to add a couple of comments here. You probably remember that we wrote to you about unsolicited mass mail to your entire Scotland listing. Our instinctive response is to respond with a snippy note to the sender. However in this country we are usually advised not to do this. The email number is more valuable commercially if it is known there is a human at the end of it. We are generally advised here to take it up with the senders administrator and if known the site from which the data was stolen. This is what we did in this case. The problem is that this makes work for innocent people like you with too much to deal with already. After we have checked out relevant details the spam is then deleted especially if there is an unsolicited attachment. The problem with government intervention is that it sets what seems a bad precedent of government interference on the net. If they censor this with laws what next. We already have such precedents with website providers in that some refuse to host porn for example. Hope this is useful.BBNiall LeightonLouise Parkvernemeton at Scotland - Niall Leighton and Louise Park

We all hate spam. But its the spammers who should take responsibility for it and no one else.Worry about it if you must Witchvox fight it if you feel compelled to. But know that you are not in the wrong and should not take the blame for some idiot out there with a get-rich-quick scheme and a send button. - WorLord

I dont get much spam of a pagan nature. Most of what I get is of the general variety. I would like to see some federal legislation about this. That way the government could prosecute these leeches who suck life and bandwidth out out of the net. - Michael Bowles

Spammers cost the United States seven million dollars a year. They slow down the Internet by clogging up cyberspace. Spam is also hardly the most effective way to reach customers as the majority of spam I receive is either porn--which I am not old enough for--or Viagra ads--which I being an underaged female have no use for. Get-rich-quick schemes rely on suckers and are a direct insult to the intelligence of anyone who receives them. Ive reported spammers to ISPs but I dont have the time to track most of them down. The government really needs to get of its collective ass and make spamming illegal. That however needs to be combined with actual attempts to track down and prosecute offenders. Its similar to drug laws laws will not scare spammers unless they are enforced. - Kris P.

I selected Just Delete It above but that is not quiteaccurate. The second time I receive spam from the sameor similar address I forward it to the provider andask them to take action. Usually I check out the headersfirst to be sure I am complaining to the right site and not just a mail site with bad security.Also...This could make more sense if your CGI allowed otherpunctuation. Writing without commas and apostrophes isa bit awkward. - Isa

For the most part i dont mind being made aware of upcoming events in my area... however i dont need a new form of technology just to tell me how to get something or buy something or how my life would be made better if only..... i get enough of these through the old mediums of television and surface mail. also i feel its the responsibility of the spammers themselves to be made accountable for this in the form of fines or Cyber-Community Service whatever that would be. - Rev.Badger

I use some wonderful anti-spam software called SPAMHATER which allows you to respond to spam in a number of ways including quoting the law in regards to the SPAM matter which you can send to both the websiteshost where the e-mail originated from as well to the person who sent it providing it is a real e-mail address. It is free to download off the net. Another thing which can eventually help if you are an AOL subscriber forward SPAM to TOSspam. AOL will investigate. I believe it is everyones responsibility to help cut down on the SPAMage. But it should also fall under the responsibility of the website host where the e-mail is originating from i.e. from AOL customers etc.. - Silver Moon Eagle

I work for an ISP and I helped to draw up some of our spam policies. My company also charges spammers 200 dollars per instance. Most ISPs are more than happy to shut down spammers if you let them know who it is that is spamming. This is because they cost the company money bandwidth and employee time while they respond to complaint email. Forward the ENTIRE message with the headers complete and showing because spammers can change some of the basic headers but not all of them in most cases. Youll probably receive a generic response back but the ISP will be taking care of it. - Nikki

As far as the Witches Voice and your crusade against email harvesting is concerned the time youre spending on tracking down the harvesters might be better spent on other things. Lobbying government for relief is one possibility for the use of said time but this is a last resort. Dont spend so much time on counter-spam that you dont have time for keeping WVox as the number one site on the Pagan Web. - Basil Greensong

When I choose to post an email address to a public site that is my choice and I am aware of the possible consequence. It is in no way a duty of the webmaster to attempt to protect that data or should they hear from me if I do get spammed. If I dont like it I will deal with it. - jg

I find people who send mass emails to be very annoying. Do they ever stop to think that perhaps their mass mail may not be welcome at the least and earn them angry and very negative responses... I dont think they do. I habitually block the senders of unsolicited mass emails so even if they may send anything in the future it will NOT appear in my inbox to bother me. - Skye Brennan

Im sorry but the mass email thing is just like all the the junk mail i get at home and if I acctually wanted the stuff theyre advertizeing i would have already gotten it. I think this sort of thing should be illegal and the persons doing it should be punished for something or other. - Blodeuwedd

There are things a mass e-mailing can tell us that are good reasonable and imporntant to us all. However I dont like being hit with eight identical E-mails of 30 pages each or being nagged to death by the same clown repeatedly. Yes or No both seem inadequate to this problem. - Ken Ra

I have on my own time taken up the fight against spam. Umong receiving spam I track down the originator from the message header never trust the from or remove fields because more than likely they have been forged or are being used to verify your email address. AS A GENERAL RULE NEVER REPLY TO SPAM Harvesting is an easy method to obtain email addresses and I can understand where that would be a problem on your site. There are ways to protect against that sort of thing.Wren Fritz I understand that you two are quite busy but I have a lot of information regarding this subject. If you would like I can send you the info but only if you request it I dont SPAM. You can also check out my website at or my newsletter on onelist utanews.Thanks for your attention and Blessed BeShamana - Shamana

Most often I will make a mental note of the address it came from. If I notice a repeat offender I will usually forward the entire email including headers to to see what response I get. If it continues I will usually block sender. Most domain providers have stated policies against using their service for commercial mass mailings. - Fionn Saoidh

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