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The Witches' Voice made the decision from day one to evolve this web site based on your input. What does our community think about... Spam, ethics, commercialism of the Craft, politics etc. So many questions are hotly debated. In this chapter of WitchVox we simply ask hard questions directly to the community itself. New surveys will pop up from time to time and be announced on the WitchVox home page.
 Author: Pagan Community    Posted: Sep. 1, 1999   This Page Viewed: 12,427  


WitchVox Survey #2 - Spam
Duration: August 23rd through August 28th 1999
Results: Posted the first week of September 1999
Survey Results: Click HERE for the actual results of this survey.
General thoughts on Spam... ONE - TWO - THREE - FOUR - FIVE - SIX

Community Comments on Spam in General PAGE #3
(FOR Community Thoughts on "PAGAN SPAM" specifically. Click HERE)



The only unsolicited email that I find offensive is advertisements for adult websites. - Karma Fortuna



I appreciate your efforts... but while youre going above and beyond the call youre not responsible for the behavior of these assholes. - Catherine Harper



Hi Wren and Fritz We really enjoy your webpage and check in with you weekly. Thanks for giving us the chance to voice an opinion on spamming. Like you we dislike spam and feel it is a big waste of space and time for us to sort through. Keep up the good work. We really want to thank you for all your efforts on such an informative website.mfury@alpha.delta.edu - Brenda and Marc Fury



I am opposed to spam of any sort. I delete all messages from senders I do not know without opening them. I believe the most effective way of reducing spam is to enact civil andor criminal penalties. Since spammers are not honorable people to begin with I think any lesser method will not be effective. - Jon



Spam is certainly a problem. Unwelcome irritating and occasionally embarrassing since many of the worst offenders dont run the sort of pages you want your children to see. However I dont feel that it is the responsibility of Witchvox to combat it on the behalf of those of us who list ourselves on your site. The two of you have much better things to do. As much as Id love to see spam eliminated I would rather see you devoting that time to freedom-fighting for us. Anyone who posts their email address on any list online does so knowing that they run the risk of being added to spam lists. Were grownups. We know where the delete button is. - Terra



Please Read This. Spam sucks. There is no doubt about it. I click into my email box and have 10 to 15 junk emails everyday. I also walk to my snail mailbox everyday and find junk mail in there. I dont cry over it it just gets thrown away. You give someone an inch and they take a mile. Thats the spammers. They know there are laws but we get the junk anyway. So that says someone is not doing there job. If we can all focus on these annoying negative mailings cant we focus on bringing people togeather too. If you dont like it throw it away. That is the best solution. If its not read and they dont get big reactions eventually its going to stop. There are so many more things to really put effort into. - Lilith Klein



I hate unsolicited mail cluttering up my inbox Thanks to you for trying to help everyone out But it seems that so much of your time must be spent doing this instead of other worthwhile activities like keeping up this great site or even relaxing. I guess without advocates like you there will never be an end to this annoyance Now how do I get rid of those pesky telemarketers without having every privacy option under the sun on my phoneP.S. Did I mention how much I love visiting your site I look forward to the weekly updates - Mel



I get enough unsolicited phone calls during the days and nights why should I have to put up with unsolicited email I usually open the email that looks like SPAM to make a request to be removed from the list but the email address used leads to a dead end or to some poor soul who is unaware that their email address has been stolen. I actually would not mind SPAM so much if the practices behind it werent so dishonest. Telemarketers have more integrity than most SPAMMERS. Spamming is also a violation of the rules they agreed to when signing on with their Website and Internet provider. I think we should respond to the SPAMMERS with firm politeness and refusals and then if that doesnt work its time to get serious. - Elwing



In a more detailed response to question 6. Im typically in favor of keepin the government out of my life. However if the government doesnt get involved at some point I dont believe spammers will stop on their own. Or in other words I think you need one more choice there all of the above. If the spammers website provider wont put a stop to it and the website chatboard etc. cant or wont then new laws are the only viable alternative. - Gene Hrothgar Ambacher



I do not and will never hold accountable any site to which I from my own free will post my email address. If it coninues I will pursue the spammers via means of their my web providers. Not by contacting Witch Vox nor any other boards Ive posted to...end of story. - Dove



I think that Spam of any kind is rude and thoughtless. I generally try to be a patient person but when it comes to unsolicited email I hate it. I feel that we are all free to pick and choose what we do and how we feel and it isnt up to anyone else to try and push their ideas and beliefs on others. Just because I dont agree with someone doesnt give me the right to criticize them and try to change them. I hope that eventually we will be able to eliminate such nonsense. - Yassaman



As long as yall arent selling the information to spammers I dont think you have much control over who illicitly snags information which is publicly posted. Its part of the risk I took when I submitted my personal information and email and I dont feel like you should lose a lot of sleep or time or money or energy over it. Those who come in perfect love and perfect trust will be repaid in kind. The others well Im glad I come in perfect love and perfect trust... I just love what yall have here and it is among my fondest pleasures to watch it grow and change with the seasons. Continue to follow your collective heart and all will be well. Kindest Wishes - Flipstick



I sent in my own e-mail address voluntarily. I am perfectly capable of hitting the delete button to get rid of unsolicited email. Please dont waste your energies on this. Thanks for all you do. - Fyrelf



I do believe it is illegal for people to spam under the invasion of privacy. When i get it I usually send it to my email provider under the abuse and harrasment area. Usually its some porn thing that when i try to reply to had a email addy that i cant reply to.good luck. I understood the risk i was taking when putting my email on the voice. I have been lucky not to have gotten any yet. i also hope fritz feels better. - Bianca Bradley



We all put our names on here in trust. Though I will still continue to have my email address here its a shame that some people abuse things. All we can do is try to correct them and use our delete keys. I also want to add that WVOX is a wonderful site and great forum. Keep up the excellent work. - chell fron pa



I have not got spammed yet from my information recently added to your website. It would be a real shame if obnoxious spam barons ruined it for everyone else. But I feel so strongly that my email address is MINE that if I should end up getting a bunch of spam from people who got my address off your site I will have to ask that my contact information be removed. What a waste of a beautiful resource. Having to deal with these people is a waste of your time as well. - Thena



When I receive unwanted Email I think What a Waste. Those who send this mail waste my time and theirs. After responding to this survey I realized that I often simply delete the email without letting the offending party know that I do not wish to receive such mail. I will now. I have a responsibility to speak up. - Asyenya



Blessed Be Well Fritz and WrenI have no issue with you guys at all It is the responsibility of the bonehead that swipes e-mail addresses from your site. That individual or company has no business grabbing my name and sending me ANYthing I dont ask them for. This is especially true of the porno sites which seem to find my e-mailbox attractive. While I dont have a problem with naked bodies - perish the thought- I didnt give anyone permission and that is the sticky point for me. I dont see how you guys could do more than you have and I REALLY REALLY dont want the feds involved therefore I will take my own steps to clunk these guys. Please please dont take any more actions than you have. You do so much for us already. We as individuals can and must stand up collectively to tell the spammers ENOUGH. Why not have a mass mailing right back at them If enough of us do it they might get the hint. Walk in Light and Shadow - KevinOld Undine



I basically have come to terms with the most common form of spam - the come and see my websiteI have a great product to sell youI have a new email list you can join etc type. I dont like it but it is usually solved by the trash button.BUT I get really annoyed nay mad when people add me to their email lists ie email discussion groups without even asking. I think its very rude to do this and always as a matter of principle unsubscribe from that list. I think its the height of rudeness to auto-subscribe people to lists without asking. I host a couple of email discussion lists and I often send an invitation to people I think might be interested but I never subscribe people without their express permission usually because they are new to the net and cant do it themselves. - Laren



Commercial spams do not disturb me. I just delete them. Hate letters are a different thing though. I have gotten hate spam from a disturbed person who said he got my address from WOTW. I did worry about him being mentally disturbed and trying to find out where I live. After threatening to notify his ISP they did stop. I think you should not waste your time on commercial spams. However hate mail should be persued in case it is from a real threat. - Connie Gilbert



I despise spam and have been slapped with quite a bit. Wether or not it was from the list that the spammers took from this site I have posted my E-mail address though I will be willing to go to any ends to help you if you want my help to get rid of this nuisance. I know I probably wouldnt be much help but I can shoot if you tell me where to aim - Geoffrey Schorz



In addition to asking to be removed from spam lists I also block the address of the sender. All mail from that address is then routed immediately to the trash file. I have had both hotmail and yahoo addresses and both of these have that feature. - Grainne



GreetingsI dont think that you at witch vox should have to battle spammers.We voluntarily submit our names and email address to witch vox for various reasons and I think that is our own personal problem if someone spams us.You kind folks are simply providing helpful services to us and if we get spammed then we should deal with it ourselves.BB - MoonWolf



I have had my email address taken or given out from sites i belong to this has not happened since i have been visiting yours But i am greatly agitated by it. When I visit a site i expect my privacy to be kept as that and i do not want to get some crap from people who think they can gain something out of it. And I must admit that 90 of span is of an adult nautre and i have children that use this computer and it really bothers me. I strongly appreciate your veiws on not agreeing withmass spam. thank you and keep up allthe wonderful work you do. I try to visit your site daily. - Kim Imandria



I dont like spam. Especially the sex stuff. I dont have kids but I still find it annoying to get e-mail that says Here are those hot naked underage girls you asked for because Ive never asked for that nor would I ever. Deleting is the best you can do. If it comes from hotmail.com bigfoot.com yahoo.com or any other free e-mail service you can send an e-mail to the abuse mailbox abuse@hotmail.com for example and they will delete the box or prevent the person from using the fake box. The biggest mistake that most people make is replying and asking to be removed. This will only guarantee more spam. Dont ever do that - Sabrina C



Almost without exception the return address given by the spammer is invalid making it impossible to get off their list or even find out who their provider is to complain. I recognize that it is in no way the fault of WitchVox when some scumbag steals your users names. - Willow Polson



I initially wrote email to the offending email address requesting or demanding to be removed but in the few cases that my email did not bounce back I was not honored with a response. UMMs severely impair my internet experience. Once you are on a list the spam mail slowly continues to increase until you are spending a half hour a day simply deleting email. You must then either decide to waste the time or change your email address. I wish to do neither of these things. Because of how UMMs frustrate me I find myself guarding my email address like I guard my social security number. Wait. I protect it MORE. Thus I never post my email on the web and I never give it to companies. Sometimes this means I miss out on an opportunity I am interested in.Spam mail clearly costs the receiver more than the sender both in time and resources such as hard drive space and bandwith. Nothing would make me happier than for the government to enact and enforce bans on spam mail. They exist for fax machines. I fail to see the difference.Nothing less than the government will be effective because companies always exist that will be rude and inconsiderate for money. - Ariadne SwordBearer



Most spammers will tell you that all you have to do to be removed from there list is just ask. They like to quote a federal law which they say allows them to spam anyone they wish if they include a way to opt out. The only problem is is that law is not real. The real law states that if they send me an unsoilicited message that costs me money to retrieve or view or delete that they are violating federal law. The law allow them to be sued for 500 for every email they send. Might not be a bad idea to start a campaign to start enforcing these laws. Spammers are the lowest form of life on the internet. If Shakespeare was alive today he would say First lets kill all the spammers. The lawyers can wait. - Kestrell Amoviche



I get so much unsolicited porno email and I NEVER go to porno web sites chat rooms or newsgroups. NEVER have probably NEVER will... but for some reason I get at least one piece of unsolicited porno email every day. It is one of the most irritating things in the world. I have tried everything. I have asked nicely... not-so-nicely... reported them to aol... just deleting them.... and nothing makes it stop. OH I HATE IT. - Rev. Lisa Ann



Merry MeetThanks for your efforts against SPAM the annoying Internet equivalent of telemarketing. Your comments ring true - SPAM is impersonal arrogant and presumptive. I hope laws against such activities arent required but service providers should screen their clients to prevent unsolicited mass e-mail. I hope the Threefold Law is multiplied exponentially for these usurpers - Lugh Bozolay



I dont think its yours and Wrens responsibilty to fight this...certianly not alone at any rate. You folks have enough stress already and most of us I thinkunderstand that you cant help the thefts. Also I dont think my recent spam problems have come from your site. But it surely is a nasty problem. When I have requested removal from lists in the past they have just increased the stuff they sent so I now dont even open the stuff. Best wishes to both of you and thanks for asking for the opinion. - vannms@aol.com



Havent had to deal with it. Sorry - Eirde



I DESPISE Spam and have been getting regularly spammed by the same user for the last 7 months. Every time I reply with an UNSUBSCRIBE he simply spoofs his email address and sends another identical message about using their service to take credit card orders at my merchant site online. The irony is that I am NOT an online merchant. It has gotten to the point where I just address the webmaster of whatever server the idiot is using and demand he sanction the user immediately. Get this the guy has been terminated from two or three servers for his spamming me and yet he still continues to do it. These people have no ethics and no honor. They must be stopped with pitchforks if necessary. - Heather



Theres plenty of ways to advertise on the web without spamming. No one should be subjected to unsolicited advertisement. I believe its unfair that The Witches Voice should have to continue sending out apologies every time some spammer disrupts the website. Im not familiar with running a website but im sure it takes money to keep one this size running. Im sure spammers can create financial difficulties also. - Branzig99@aol.com



My provider has some faily good controls to set to reduce spam. - Noaell



A mailbox is a mailbox. Look through the junk in it. Pick out the gems. Toss the rest.The internet is for COMMUNICATION. If you dont want to hear from others or want to censor those you hear hear from STAY OFF LINE.It makes me think of all of those religious nazis wanting to control tv. - Helen Avery



While some people may see spam as being an unfortunate byproduct of the Internet there is no need for us to simply ignore it. Ignoring it wont make it go away. The best way to stop a spammer is to complain to the spammers ISP as most ISPs have rules against spam. - Dustin Crewell



I do not publish any info about myself due to spamming and wish I could feel free to connect with others via the internet without getting rude emails about subjects I am not interested in and did not solicite. - Karen Slater



No one has the right to bombard another with unsolicited email. I dont think i would buy the product or even research anything these people are offering due to these sales tactics. It is very pushy. Furthermore they are stealing email addresses from a place where it is expressly written not to take the addresses ...... and Im supposed to do honest business with them....right - Pat V.



We teach that sacred space is just that. I have come to look upon this Web Site as a wonderful space for teaching and learning alike. You have worked very hard to earn the confidance of your readers. There are so many pages out there that are not completely correct in some of their editorials that it is hard to know whom to trust. But you have been vigelant and true to the Principles and Ethics we believe in. I feel that my sacred space has been defiled by these Spamers whom have litterally stolen addersses from your lists to make a profit no less. - Lady Bricania Penndragon



I think the spam is okay as long as you ask for it. In fact the address you have for me is at work. I would appreciate it if you would send to tazzmarine@hotmail.com instead. Thank you for the web site as we have a place to go and not be completely alone. It is important that our kind can communicate with one another. - Dennis Beck



I was one of the people who received spam off of TWV but I took care of it directly. I didnt appreciate the spammer taking my e-mail address off of your site more than actually getting the spam.I can and do take care ofrespond to spammers directly. I dont believe its your fault someone takes e-mail addresses off of your site. People who put their e-mail addresses out there on the Net should be prepared for this inevitability. - Ronald Stuart



Spam is more than just an annoyance. It is a threat to everything that makes the net special. Right now the Internet is still a real community. It is mostly free very open as well as tolerant and shared... just like what we hope the Pagan community is. But all that is slowly changing. Most of the ways that people have tried to corrupt this medium have failed... pay for content has not been effective and banner adds are ignored. People do shop online but many people still stand by a strong separation between commercial and noncommercial sites. Spam is the one assault that has been effective at damping our community spirit. Spam is unethical and disgusting and I want us to all fight together to stop it... as a community. - IvyV



Span seems to be a real problem with my mailbox. Every day I log in hoping to find important mail from co-workers family and friends. Instead I find that over 50 of what I actually recieve is nothing more than mass mailing to lists I have never heard of nor would ever subscribe to. This is very irritating and annoying to say the least. Not only that but just how many people that I dont know are familiar and are tradingsharing my personal e-mail address This thought is very uneasing.In order to avoid most of the spam that I recieve although it has not been completely fool-proof I have set up two to three other e-mail accounts to catch most spam and use one just for family and friends etc. I use the catch accounts when I sign up for new loginsaccounts to other sites or when I fill out any online forms. I end up checking those accounts every once in a while just to clean them up and to be sure I didnt miss a valid e-mail. So far so good.-Tarion - Tarion



Since I am on so many lists I get mass quantities of solicited mail...it just irks me to recieve mail from other sources that odds are wont interest me. - Beth Goodine



Well... all things considered...HAMMER THE SPAMMERS. SPAM is getting a piece of junk mail and springing for the stamp yourself. Users pay for the bandwidth and those of us with dialup connections fume for every message that we have to delete. Most of my friends no longer post on bulletin boards and Newsgroups due to the certain knowledge that every message posted will generate twenty or more SPAMs once the board or group is routinely harvested for emails. I WOULD prefer to ask for removal from lists but about half the time that only gets me more SPAM once ive verified that my address is live. responding Then there are the privacy issues... and even beyond that many Pagans are still in situations where discretion and privacy matter... A LOT.Keep up the good fight. Damn the electrons full pixels ahead - Kurt Talking Stone



It is in the guidelines and rules for proper use created by an ISP that says you are not supposed to use your service provider for spamming purposes. Unfortunately alot of these people who spam have figured out how to create temporary anonymus ISP accounts. I have even run across one of these vile people bragging on the public transit. I am sure that most people appreciate your efforts to reduce the recent spammings. - Toliara



its no worse to me than phone solicitations. A minor nuisance that is not worth getting angry about. If there was an e-mail directory like there is a phone directory this wouldnt even be a question. At least with e-mail you can delete it automatically without feeling rude. - Airmid



Unsolicited email is rude and unsettling. It is an invasion of my privacy. I would like to see it stopped. - Jana Murphy



I actually would not mind getting spam for things that I am interested in. Very tired of the you can make money with your pc mail. - Akasha



Regarding 6 The Spammers ISPSMTP provider as opposed to website provider should have some level of responsibility but YOU GUYS SHOULDNT. Basically I know if I give out my email address to be posted on a directory Im going to get spam from it. You guys shouldnt have to spend a lot of time following up on it. Maybe just say on the submit forms if the address will be displayed or not or give an option to make the email address confidential. - James Johnson



Fritz and Wren you should not worry about this should not spend your precious time and energy on it. I dont think there is an effective way to prevent/respond to this stuff beyond contacting ISPs when possible and I certainly would not hold you responsible for some spammer getting my address from your site. Glad that Fritz is getting better and Blessed Be. - Mary



I think SPAM in any form is just not necessary. It ties up my lines takes up my valuable space and wastes my time. Not to mention some of the SPAM is VERY indecent and I dont like my kids to see that kind of stuff. - Beth Bailey



Spam occurs everwhere. There nothing we can do. i accept it like junk mail in my box. I just delete it. Dont stress out over something you cant regulate. We will all live.Blessed beJessica Dodge - Jessica Dodge



I stated I dont care to 6 but the truth is I dont know enough about how e-mail and internet services work to know how to answer that question. All I know is that for the last two years I have received almost no Spam and in the last three months more than half of my weekly e-mail volume is unsolicited junk. I know this is not your fault and I most certainly hold the advertisers responsible since I am constantly getting XXX site ads and I have no interest in those and have never visted any. This mess is getting beyond annoying and into infuriating.Thanks so much for your concern and care in trying to prevent this mess. You guys do a great job - Wildbriar



About 20 of junk mail really does provide a service. Direct mail is a major business and the most productive form of advertising in all industries.Granted if you do not want new windows on your house you complain but when you find that you do ... you scramble to find that 45 off coupon.I think its not only unreasonable to deflect junk e-mail but as we have learned in printed mail imposible. As a reader you always have the option to throw it away with out reading it. Companies know ... those anoying pieces of cyberspace are not always cheap to send. If people stop responding ... they will stop mailing. Until then I belive its an excersize in futility to try and stop it.In your position I belive that your policies are good ones but to try to go further than that would take up too much of your time and money. I also belive that your successes would be minimal.Ultimatly the consumer is the control of junk mail. - Steven E. Repko



If its driving you nuts battling it - dont bother.I have a delete key and I know how to use it. - Tempest



Well for one it doesnt bother meunless is is unsolicited advertising for something such as hardware or software. Usually I can determine from the subject line wether it is worth taking the time to read or not then acting accordingly. I DO NOT believe or concur that government should interfere with the ability to communicate with one another on any level whatsoever - provided the communication is lawful of course. - James Murphy RunningOak



I would prefer The Witches Voice use their time on other things. It is simple to send the spammer email and be taken off their list. Each individual that recieves email has the responsibility to handle what they personally want to recieve or not recieve and when I recieve spam I dont turn to some one else to take care of it for me rather I take care of it myself. - Amalthia



If it is taking up too much time and effort for you to try to prevent or investigate it- dont. Keep your efforts focused on the important work you do for us the pagan community. I would rather get the occasional unsolicited email and know that your lives were made more peaceful and less frustrating than expect you to fight something so difficult to control. The quality of your site and the importance of the news you bring to us more than makes up for the minor inconvenience of deleting a few messages here and there. Keep focused on the truly important things- and it is truly important work that you do- and let the spammers deal with their future karmic consequences in due time.Blessed Be - Godfrey Michaelsson



Recently on several occasions...I have received spam where the person got my name and email off of lists or announcments emails I chose to be a part of...If i wanted on other lists or update systems i would ask...I hate folks sending over and over the same junk...that i never asked for...and i never respond when i do receive this spam...you would think that would tell them something...oh well...I will get by i guess... - Craig



In the current era of our community when we have come under such close scrutiny by the country at large it is impotant to remember one of our most important rule... we dont prostelytize. Some spam could be seen as such and could further those small rifts in our community that when added up mar the face we show to our country. - LunarMint



I also receive things by mail that are unsolicited. I do the same with them that I do unsolicited e-mail...I shred it. Sometimes I think people on the internet are too uptight and should lighten up a little. If you dont want to read it push the delete key and move on to a more important battle. When you list your name and e-mail on anything theres always a chance that someone you dont intend may receive it...its part of the internet and must be accepted as such.Now telemarketers calling my house at dinnertime--thats a different story. - Michelle



While I realise that I dont speak for many others I have never received unsolicited spam which garnered my addy from your website and could care less if I do. It is a simple matter to use my delete button and it takes half a second. My simple philosophy is that all of us have much too much more important stuff to worry about than this and getting our knickers in a twist about having to delete spam is pointless. Lets all worry about the millions of trees dying daily so that we can get unsolicited mailings of the latest shop circulars in our mailboxes first. - Michelle Menhennet

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