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The Witches' Voice made the decision from day one to evolve this web site based on your input. What does our community think about... Spam, ethics, commercialism of the Craft, politics etc. So many questions are hotly debated. In this chapter of WitchVox we simply ask hard questions directly to the community itself. New surveys will pop up from time to time and be announced on the WitchVox home page.
 Author: Pagan Community    Posted: Sep. 1, 1999   This Page Viewed: 14,061  


WitchVox Survey #2 - Spam
Duration: August 23rd through August 28th 1999
Results: Posted the first week of September 1999
Survey Results: Click HERE for the actual results of this survey.
General thoughts on Spam... ONE - TWO - THREE - FOUR - FIVE - SIX

Community Comments on Spam in General PAGE #4
(FOR Community Thoughts on "PAGAN SPAM" specifically. Click HERE)



I look at Spam the same as Junk-Mail. I know what is and if I dont want it toss it. I do however agree that in the computer world that Spam can be sometimes harassing. I once recieved a message from a Christian Group discussing why Wicca is wrong. I didnt appreciate that one and I think what confused me the most was how did they get my name and email address As with all things becarful and always think before you do. You can never be too careful Blessed Be - Moya Wen Keegan



While I dont like spam I dont expect Witchvox to spend time chasing away the spammers who harvest email addresses from the WOTW pages you have better things to do. As someone who owns my own .com domain I sometimes pursue spammers with the treat of a 500 administration charge for deleting each UMM sent to addresses in my .com domain. Occassionally this works but many spammers use fake From addresses. - Mike Cosgrave



Untill you posted this I wasnt sure why I was recieving so much extra spam. Every day when I check my mail there are at least 6 new messages. Before Id get the odd one or two. In the last few months it has been increasing greatly. I would respond to tell them to stop but it is ALWAYS a different adress to remove me from their list. No 2 spam is ever the same or from the same address and they are almost all smut or get rich quick stuff... Some are even addressed and written out as if it was a long lost friend and contain a link within to a smut page. If somehow you can stop this ... it would save me from getting a new address. - Shoshin



Spam comes from all forms of sources. We all post are email address in multiple place. With the wiccan-pagan communities online presense most of us have email address on there they will get they one way or another and if companies view wiccan-pagan community as a large enough target area to go after email addresses from sites dealing with them then we are making headway. - Kaume



Spiritual spam in any form is disrespectful. It assumes that I am not competent to choose my own information wisely. Advertising on the site from which they steal addresses would be a much more acceptable approach to sending out their message. I regularly check out the advertisers at sites I frequent the Witchs Voice being my favorite. - Joppa aka Joe Propper



I think this is an invasion of privacy and should be stoped. It can be tough to find who is responsible and to find a legal way to stop this. Where do we draw the line between the freedom of speech and privacy. I think when someone reaches into your home they have violated your privacy and the freedom of speech doesnt aply. This is just my opinion and a least we no what goes around comes around. - lyonness



For me spam is an annoyance. I imagine some people get a lot more of it than I do. I think it should be stopped but I do not know really by whom or how. I used to get really angry but now most days I simply take a deep breath and hit the delete key. When fixing the problem is as easy as that there is no reason I can see why you should have to kill yourselves trying to prevent it. It is not like it is your fault. - Chalice Bailey



Unless you want to receive spam do not post your email address anywhere on the web. If you need to post your email address open an account on Hotmail Excite or some other free email service and post that throwaway address. Then when you get replies send your real email address to people you really want to correspond with and you can forget about the free email address which will be receiving tons of spam by that time. - Myrskytuuli



It is very hard to determine who is responsible for stopping unsolicited e-mail. It would be a blessing if people would just be a little considerate of other peoples time and not do it. But knowing this will not happen I guess we will all just continue to hit that delete key. As for your time being spent trying to prevent it I would have to say that unless we can find an easy way to prevent it your time would be better spent elsewhere. Just post something that states the WitchesVox does not approve of it yet can not prevent the inconsiderates of the world from obtaining your e-mail address for spamming. - Karren



I do not want nor do I appreciate unsolicited e-mail and do try to block or reply with REMOVE when given the opportunity. - Fyre Rose



I find people who send out spam extremely rude and pushy often immature. The government cannot be resposible however that would be censorship and censorship is wrong. We need to teach people manners. - - Rhiannon Arianrhod



I use Hotmail for my public email addrss and when I get spam I add it to my filters wich usuly helps. Second I dont even try to respiond to it that valadates teh privat information they took. And lastly I can just start up a new email address if it seems to be inposable to get rid of the e-mail address I alwase keep my ISP side e-mail box privat only to those friends I know. - Christopher Maple aka Anthes



The response buttons on question no. 1 are too tightly defined. I dont hate it. I do care. It is annoying.I do respond to the sender. I couch it in polite terms with a reference to my attorneys not that I actually HAVE attorneys.Thanks for your efforts. I understand your anger but it may be unnecessary. I think just dealing with the spammers website provider may be enough. Dont get so teed off over the small stuff. Save it for the important battles. - Starscryer



An it harm none do what thou wilt. The sending of UMM DOES harm - many people still pay by the minute for their Net access andor phone connection time. And some folks like me are too busy to sort through all the messages in their in-box sometimes..which means REAL email can get lost in the shuffle. - Jaz Gordon



I go after SPAMMERS with a vengence because I want a internet with none of that on it. To many people just ignore it but if you do the problems just get bigger and bigger. My husband and I will hunt down every SPAMMER just to make the internet a better place for all of us honest people. - Debra Hoyle



If you get nasty spam mail like pornagraphy or such you can forward it to TOSFILES so aol can deal with it. - Emerald Raven



Re question 6... I dont like the idea of getting the government any more involved in the internet. People spam because there is a potential for profit in it. If we make it unprofitable for them ie. dont buy their product they will be out of business fast.Re Question 4... Another important choice would have been what my email allows. Delete and Block Sender. since this was not a choice politely ask... was checked - albatross



When I get unsolicited e-mail I understand that the personsare walking a circle of Greed. I have not invited them into my Sacred Spacebut they seem to enjoy the power of Spamming into my Space.There are many ways to be knownusing force is not necessary.Spaming is invasion of ones Space even if it is on the internet. Respect space respect other peoples work and time. I have made it clear that I will not buy nor listen to these people that come into my cyber space uninvited. Dont call me Ill call you might be good when placing shields up around your computer. - WaterHawk



Spam mail of any kind is time consuming and for some very costly. As some of the community must pay for the time used to down load this generaly useless mail..Those who use spam as a way to get their product or what ever noticed have little or no respect for others. I often wonder if they realy under stand the Rule of Three or what Do what you willBut harm none..means. - REV. FRED FISHER



I hate spam. It is an incredible waste of time. I do not respond to them because I am worried I will only get more junk. - Ronald L Olsen



Ive found it helpful that if you need to post an email address in a public place such as networking pages here on Witchvox that using one of the many free online e-mail services such as Netaddress Hotmail Juno Rocketmail etc. are good substitutes instead of using your main e-mail account. Using this strategy you will get less spam in your main account and more spam will be directed to the free account.Also another added benefits of the free accounts is most are available to check from any computer with internet service and a web browser and most also have options to forward the email to another account such as your main email account. - Corwin Sebastian



I feel that if a person is willing to put their e-mail address out there on the internet they must be tolerant of spam. Just as with snail mail we are tolerant of RESIDENTmail. You simply should just respond that you wish to be removed from their listings and go on with your day. The website which you post you address at is no way responsible for your inconveniece. You basically ask for it yourself. Spam should be dealt with on an individual basis. Not worried about by the webmaster or mistress.Your right you have better things to spend your time on.Love and light - Bella



The majority of spam I recieve is pornographic in nature. While I am not against the existance of such sites I do not appreciate having and email with explicit and crude language find its way into my mailbox. I certainly wish that more would be done to prevent unsolicited mailings. - Cyrena



As always I like to choose where I receive email. Emails from any individuals are not included in spam IMO but mass emails are cybertrash littering the info highway. - David Aquarius



The worst thing about spam is that a lot of it comes from other people who may give your e-mail out i.e. your enemies give it to sites. I had someone sign me up for Christian newsletters and when I asked to be taken off the list the persons stated that I had signed up for the mailing. I have now learned that there is a program than can trace where you accessed a site from like your provider or a library account etc. so things like this should slow down. I think that spam is a waste of bandwidth and is as bad as postal junk mail... - Kim Upton



i hate being sent commercialsspam on email. if id wanted the information i would have gone surfing for it in the first place. i dont have the time nor do i wish to make the time to even tell people that i dont want their unsolicited email anymore than i want their phone calls in my home. - breeze



I hate that my addy has been harvested from your files. However I feel it is my responsibility to take care of it and not yours. When we post on WOTW we know it is public and therefore we assume responsibility for whatever happens to us. There are stupid people out there and you as an open board cannot do anything about it. I appreciated your apology when someone sent out their mass mail but I never expected to be your responsibility. If we post our email addy we must be prepared for spam. It is a fact of email life. If we want the spammer stopped we must go to THEIR ISP not to you. Their ISP is the only thing that can stop them. Emailing them directly is pure folly. If you respond they know that the email addy is live. People should write to the ISP not to you the witches voice. - Sati



I dont respond to the spam. I look at all the headers and track down everylast ISP that the spam got bounced threw When I post to newsgroups I put in spam traps and I do the same whenever I have my email address up on a website. These four steps alone has cut my spam down to one or two emails a week. - Deadly Nightshade



carey on - g l harvey



Grettings. So farwhen I ask I have been removed. It hasnot happened from TWVbut on some other sites. I want you to knowthat I feel that its MY addressso I will take some responsibility for pointing the finger at spammers. - Durgas Daughter



I usually Block the spam mail. And it intantly go to my trash can. - Airel



People start sending you crap as soon as you add anything to a member profile. My advice is to leave that blank. I dont have anything on mine and I dont get any Spam mail. In turn people should also be careful with who they lend their email address to... - Celeste



THEN theres spam I ask for...If I ask to be on a list if I ask for announcements...and I DO...then I dont mind getting them. Otherwise..unsolicited...no...I usually react somewhat badly. - Seth LindbergGothic.net magazine



I receive a lot of spam devoted to soliciting adults to ...adult... sites on the web and I resent being pestered by this on a daily basis. I used to forward the unsolicited mail to the web host...along with my displeasure... but found this to be a waste of my time.Of late I have had my name added to neopagan lists soliciting my business. This is ok on a one time basis but I dont want it to continue without my approval. Most of the time these lists tell me how to remove my name. Why dont they remove my name if I did not solicit the listRight now I receive list mail from two neopagan businesses whose mailings I did not seek. - SnowRavens



I appreciate being asked and I value your efforts to control the unsolicited use of my email address. Ive been on the Web since before there was one remember BBSs and have always done my rather uneducated best to control the use of my personal information. As the Web develops and I get older I can see that privacy and the use of ones personal info is going to be a premier issue. As it will be in other segments of society. Just think about how your personal medical profile has already been used much less how it may be used in the future. I hope you will continue to fight this problem and tell me how I can best help you as a net citizen. - Chris



I call for the invention of Anti-spam options an all e-mail addresses. Like ICQ they ask Would you like to accept messages from whatever@whatever.com and you say yes or no End of Story. - Christy M Rodriguez



Actually on Question number six I did not like any of the people who should be responsible who were listed. I site can ask people not to harvest addresses from their guest books. As to having a persons e-mail provider not allowing people to spam that is a fuzzy area. AOL has tried this and its a pain in the butt if you have a newsletter type of thing going on where you send out to alot of people. If we leave it to the government... theyll mess it up one way or another.... - Shell



I am offended by smam mail that consistently appears in my mailbox. Frankly I feel the same way about harrassing telemarketers. In my opinion these tactics infringe upon my privacy rights. I also believe that such operations seek to manipulate vulnerable people into spending money on fraudulous endeavors. I think such things should be outlawed. And Im not big on having many laws but this one is necessary these days. - Melissa



I personally have not recieved that many unsolicited e-mails but have been told that is because I have only been on the NET for a couple of months. I feel that SPAM e-mail is the equivilant of junk mail - Ken Peterson



I cant decide if there should be a control on spamming or not. My main concern about creating any law rule bylaw etc is that it will then have to be policed and theat is where I get concerned as this medium has opened the way for controls that we cannot imagine nor will we want under any circumstance. This may be one time to say live and let live and to just return such mail to sender with a note saying please remove me from your list and then hit the block address button to avoid hearing from them again.I cant seem to enter this form without answering 5 and 6 even though it is clearly stated that they are optional.Runa Lindi runalindi@yahoo.com - Runa Lindi



You do a lot more good than harm with your contacts pages. Keep it up. - Rainbow Dreamfire



I believe that I have gotten spam email from being listed on your page. I dont blame you for any of this and I accept it as a part of being listed as a contact. Bless you both for all the good hard work you do and please keep it up. - Sigurd



I indicated above that I usually just delete the e-mail spam I receive. This is because I know that most spammers simply try all e-mail addresses they can harvest. By indicating on the e-mail that to remove yourself you simply need to respond what theyre really trying to do is figure out if the e-mail address they used was a valid active and more importantly read address. By responding to their fake remove-to address you are in effect usually putting yourself on a GREATER spam listing. Youve just told them that yes this is a valid e-mail address and yes I do read the e-mail I receive from it.Usually the best way to disuade a spammer is to not respond to their remove e-mail address and simply delete the message and set up a mail filter to remove future mail from them.I have noticed that if you notify the spammers ISP the more notices the ISP receives the more likely they are to have a talk with their Spammer. Ive seen instances where because of overwhelming e-mail from victims of spam theyve even removed that persons access to their service and notified the ISPs in the area to be wary of this person because of their actions on their service.The best thing to do with spam is to notify the webmaster of the service from which you receive the e-mail spam. Usually its just webmaster@domain or support@domain. If youre really wanting a response you can even look the domain up on Internic to obtain the technical and administrative contact addresses and e-mail to them directly. - Anastasia



I dont currently get much spam at all so it isnt a big deal to me right now. I think it would be though if I got tons of spam the way other people say they do. And I suppose it seems less of a problem to me if the stuff that comes actually has some relation to my interests rather that just being endless solicitations for net porn. On the other hand I dont really want to do business with people who get their addresses by ignoring the expressed wishes of the owners of the site theyre harvesting. Among many other reasons for that attitude is the belief that if they are shoddy or unethical in one area they are likely to be shoddy or unethical in other areas. - Brigid



Although some say that it is impossible to police the internet I belive that if we take a stand against spam then eventually it will be stopped. The www is a means of communication for all yet lately seems to have become a gateway for advertisments. We dont just look the other way when sales-men come to our door or call us one the phone. Why should it be different on the Web It is wrong for anyone to take names from a source such as the vox and use it to advertise. I think spam should be stopped. If there is anything I can do to help please let me know.mailto IrishIris7@hotmail.comLove Light Jessica - Jessica M. Price



Spam was bad enough when I was on AOL...it was kind of expected if one frequented chat rooms. Now I dont go into chat rooms I only surf the web via Yahoo and I get about the same amount of junk mail I usually dont post an email address unless it is something I truly believe in MPN and I would sincerely hope that is not how spammers got my address. - Anabel 96 Jade Phoenix



The amount of Spam I have been recieving has mysteriously been rising recently. I have politely e-mailed many of them to ask to get off their lists but have found that some take as long as weeks to get me off their lists while others dont do it at all. Its not that big of a deal except when you do take the time to ask them to stop and they dont. It takes that much more time out of my day and I am striving to become less disorganized and strung out. This makes it more difficult. - Angela Livermore



Question 6 I think the Spammers themselves are responsible for stopping unsolicited email. They should be fined for each unsolicited email they send. The definition of unsolicited email should be ..If I did not email you and ask to be put on your list...do not send it to me at all.Question 4 I HAVE to delete them because most of the return addresses they supply do not work. I think it should be standard practice that you can not send an email at all unless you supply a fully functional return email. The really sick part of this is that they do not supply functioning email addresses because they do not want to be spammed back by their victims.I share your frustration and if there is anything I can do to help please let me know. Almost all of my frustration is because I do not feel empowered to do something about it.You two take care now please. Even this can wait while you take care of each other.--BlueFlame - BlueFlame



Two months ago I was stalked by a freako on the Net. so I started to use a nick and put a bogus reply to address when posting to Usenet forums if someone wants to email me he just states it so on the board.Since then I have received very few spam... maybe 4 or 5 messages in the beforesaid two months. - Artemisia



I think its a nasty devious missuse of a facility I use to keep up to date with what is happening in the craft.In the case of Witchvox it is misuse of a system for the greater good of the Craft and therefore should not be abused in this way. I hope the Rule of Three comes into play and buries the Spammers in unwanted mail etc.not to mention the bad feelings of the Wiccans on the receiving end of their crap. - Micca Patterson



Sometimes a spam is actually usefull. But if not well thats what the delete button is for. Roll your eyes hit delete and go on with life. I dont feel anger is a necessary thing unless the spam mail has blown away your e-mail box at which point you talk to the spammers ISP. Anytime you volunteer your e-mail address on a public web-site you are giving tacit permission for people to use it. Witchvox IMHO cannot be held responsible for such harvestings. Spammers are simple nuisances...delete delete delete. - Amit Westmoon



As far as stopping unsolicited email I do not want to give the government a reason to get involved with the web. I do not like spam any more than commercials on TV but I would rather have spam than governmental censureship. Most ISP companies have policies against spamming. Perhaps it is feasible that the ISP could stop the practice.Thank you for all you do at Witchs Voice and Wrens Nest - Lillith Lewis



Ive inadvertantly been accused of doing this so this makes me feel a little embarrassed admitting it but I really hate getting itI dont mind getting something that others have seen except for going through their doggone tocolumns which seems to take forever but it galls me to get things about How to make a million dollars sending Spam in the middle of my email - Puck Shadowdrake



What I really hate is the x rated spam I get especially on AOL. Im not a prude but there are times I would dearly love to have the president of AOLs e-mail addy so I could forward what I get to him... maybe that way he would do something about it. - swddancer



Dont waste too much of your time geting rid of these people unless they do something repeatadly... but they SHOULD be stoped if at all in any way possable - Camille



Spam is annoying but so easy to just ignore by hitting the delete button that its not worth stressing over. Someday when the Internet has evolved more there will be effective ways to deal with spammers but for now just ignore them since they just want attention. - Mari



Wren and FritzYou do so much for the community. I dont think its your fault that spammers misuse your services and you shouldnt feel responsible when they do. Of course whatever you *can* do to prevent it or punish it would be greatly appreciated.Be well. - Jessica Thomson



Take a break you guys. You cant fight it. If you find people using your lists let people know on the site who they are. Otherwise youre just banging your head. If your active on the web they will find your address somewhere. We should take this fight to the ISPs to have them stop supplying a place for these people to send fromBYW I send much of my spam to spamrecycle@ChooseYourMail.com who track the senders and are trying to fight them. There are a couple of other people who do this also. - Stephen Morley



I dont get much unsolicited mail nor do I want to. I respond by telling the spammer to remove my name and add that Ill never purchase or use the services of the spammer. Its probably here to stay. Look how long we have been trying to eradicate junk mail. You are not responsible. I know that the possiblity of being added to someones exists each time I join a list. I just have to weigh the benefit versus the possible pain in my carpal nerve. - Cynthia Noyes



I think that not only Pagan Spam but all spam in general is most disgraceful and insulting to all parties involved. Personally I think that the people that spam others need to take a serious look at what they think they are gaining from harassing other people that neither want it or ask for it. - Grezun Marhauk



most spam i recieve is sexually related. it is expecially tiresome since i am under 18 and therefore it is besically illegal. Not only do i not want the mail but if i did want to what would i do about that annoying sentence that states in bold letters for adults only no minors allowed or must be over 18. then why the HECK send it to mei am as we speak praying to God and Goddess for patience. - Rosalyn



I dont know if ther is really anyway to control these spammers but the problem seems to get worse all time. I guess eventually we will all just have to get use to it. Alot of my friends even do it to me...not in such mass numbers but they forward those stupid chain letters...its getting out of hand. I guess we just have to take it with a grain of salt. - R.W. Foster



parts is parts. spam is spam. - jason d. covington



I truly dont see anything wrong with spamming. Yes mostly opportunists spam but I believe the U.s. was built on opportunists. I also believe that if somone has the right whether or not to be spammed. Personally by checking out most of the wierd long shot ideas of these opportunists I and they usually benefit. Thank you for including me in your survey.Blessed Be - Ryan Pinagel



although it is a problem i dont think that there is really much that can be done about it it is just one of the hazards of being listed on a email list so it is important to choose wisely. the best thing is to just delete them as they come in or to have a email filter on your email account that will remove them. it is pointless to send email back to the spammers asking to be taken off their list because by the time you email them back they have already changed email addresses. - solstice



Hi my name is Emilee. I dont care about spam. I honestly couldnt care less. I get some spam but I dont care so i just delete it. - Emilee



I recieved one of the mass email spams and I was really upset because it wasnt just 1 message it was 50 or 60 of the posts to this persons list. I greatly appreciated your response to me to say that you would take care of the problem with the emailer. I didnt want to write to you and bother you with this since I know you are so very busy but I am really glad that you care and want to prevent further problems. Thankyou. - Mandi



its a bloody nuiscence - ashlan@mcafeemail.com



Its greatly annoying but Ive been getting less spam recently than a few years ago. Ironically I have lately been ignoring the spam and the volume has gone down. Previously I usually noted that after sending an email to the address responsible When I could determine it... would result in my name being sent to several new spammers. Now I only get one or two per day on average.I dislike spam but there doesnt seem to be a perfect answer to the problem. Most ISP seem to honestly dont care and they rarely care if you try to speak to the mas a fellow human being. - DonaldG.Bixler



Spam is extremely annoying. But we are all adults. If I dont recognize the name--its deleted. I dont have the time to waste reading or griping about it. If it clogs up the mailbox then I notify the spammers ISP and lodge a complaint. Its only junkmail. Keep it in perspective people. Wren and Fritz should not spend their valuable time fighting this. If you publish your address you will get spammed. And you will get serious intelligent responses from people about your websitetradevent. Everytime you hold your hand out you risk getting it slapped. Thats not reason enough for me to hold my hand back from the world. - WickdGud@aol.com



I think that spamming should be stopped. I dont think it should be legislated. Thats thin ice in a lot of ways. Weve had spammers hack our server and use OUR URLs to send out the worst kind of spam porn. Its very frustrating and very uncool. It certainly doesnt follow the philosophies generally espoused by pagans does it. I dont know what the answer is but in the short term I talk to the spammers pop account provider and the spammer. - Dwan



I am not sure if this is true or not but i recall seeing on Aol a report saying that responding and asking to be removed from a emailers list can actually generate additional spam mail. The way it works is by responding you are notifying to the mailer that indeed your email is a valid and live one and therfore should be sent more mail.I dont know if this is true or in how many cases but the best recourse I feel is to always email the service provider and complain. For the record I have yet to receive any spam mail on the account I have listed on the witches of the world Keep up the good workBlessed Be-Scratch - scratch

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