Thunder Ministries |
Author: Kerr Cuhulain
Posted: June 30th. 2003
Times Viewed: 7,885
One of the more objectionable web sites that I've encountered in my anti-defamation work is the one belonging to Thunder Ministries. The creator of this site only identifies himself as "Pastor Daniel". You can find it at:
On the Thunder Ministries web site one finds the page "Wicca, Satanism, Occult and Magic Are All Evil" (Link). It commences with the usual list of King James Bible scriptures from Deuteronomy, Samuel, that one finds on such a web site. Pastor Daniel then makes the following statements:
"Many witches will not acquiesce to the preponderance of the biblical evidence marshaled against witchcraft. Arnold and Patricia Crowther are indicative of this mentality when they write regarding witchcraft that some 'modern writers' who 'still believe in the evil of witchcraft...are usually strict Christian writers who want to maintain the evil image of witches. Their books are usually full of quotations from the old witch trials and in their bibliographies they never list any books by pro-witch writers or by witches themselves, though they must have read these books (1)'. It seems hardly necessary to mention that this is not the case with this work."
NOTE: It is true that I have no intentions of "acquiescing" to Daniel's "biblical evidence". I agree with the Crowther's assessment and Daniel is certainly one of those Christian writers that they refer to, and that this certainly is the case with Pastor Daniel's work.
"Similarly, many witches appear constitutionally unwilling or unable, perhaps because of bigotry or narrow-mindedness, to admit that many individuals adequately understand their beliefs and practices yet reject them. This rejection is not out of ignorance, bigotry, narrow-mindedness, or any other epithets that witches cast their way. It is because of a sober understanding of the biblical teaching on witchcraft, and the failings, falsehoods, and implications of the witchcraft worldview."
NOTE: Pastor Daniel is clearly anticipating the objections to his diatribe here with this statement. Daniel's inaccurate descriptions of what he believes Pagan practices to consist of elsewhere on his site clearly indicates that contrary to his objections Pastor Daniel is most certainly ignorant of things Pagan and narrow minded.
Pastor Daniel has selected a number of letters that he tells us came from "ones in Wicca that have taken the time to write me". He goes on to state that "There are many sects of the Christian faith. It is not uncommon to find Satan numbered among them... Many deaths and killings have taken place in the pretense of Christianity. Make no mistake about it, Satan has infiltrated a lot of churches. We know that the Catholic Church and many Protestants have killed many. Let me say up front that killing other people is not of Christ Jesus. " Clearly Pastor Daniel considers these churches to be manifestations of witchcraft. Clearly he also believes that Wiccans are involved in killing people.
Before he presents these Wiccan letters to us Pastor Daniel anticipates one of the most common arguments used by Wiccans with one of the more common "them vs us" arguments that we've seen other's I've written about in this series utilize:
"I know that many in Wicca do state that they do not believe in Satan, and therefore cannot be Satanic. There are only two forces at work in this world, good and evil. Good is obedience to the words of Jesus Christ, the King of kings. Evil is disobedience to his word. Simply stated, if you do not serve Jesus Christ, you serve Satan. There is no in-between and it makes no difference what one claims."
Daniel also bombards us with some more anti-witchcraft scriptures from the King James Bible before he starts (Exodus 22:18, Revelations 20:15, Philippians 2:10). He then first presents us with a letter from Michael K. Winland, who uses the e-mail handle Druidking here. Druidking commences by telling him "Thou shalt not judge". Daniel justifies himself by quoting 1 Corinthians 2:15: "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Note how Daniel doesn't come up with his own answers in the following exchange. Pastor Daniel mindlessly quotes scripture in reply:
"Druidking: Unless YOU LEARN the fundamentals of what You are talking about, please refrain from 'bashing' it. I learned that God takes a spectators seat in life. He allows Us to choose the manner in which We worship Him. Who is to say Yours is the right way, or Mine? Only Him.
"ANSWER: (John 14:6 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
"Druidking: I have extended the courtesy of linking To Your site on My "Page of Stupidity and Ignorance".
"ANSWER: (2 Cor 10:12 KJV) For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
"Druidking: So far Your site is the only listing. If We are going to judge each other, and quote "experts" then I can go on for days giving "absolute proof" that Christianity is a farce. For One, the book was written across the ages, not by one MAN, but by many.
"ANSWER: (2 Pet 1:21 KJV) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
"Druidking: How about "Witch Hunts" and " The Inquisition" and "Capital Punishment" that Christians have come up with? Does the commandment " THOU SHALT NOT KILL" mean anything? I'm tired of Christians knocking Druids( and other pagans) for Their beliefs and practises when the Christians do the same things.
"ANSWER: (Mat 7:22 KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Mat 7:23 KJV) And then will I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I never knew you: DEPART from me, ye that WORK INIQUITY.
"Druidking: I decided to pay honor to God through what He has made, not what man has made Him. The true beauty of God is in this wonderful world, not a book. I have also taken the liberty to begin a documentary of the " Duality of Christianity" which will be posted on the Net. This page will be a page like the one You had with the non-functioning e-mail link that You hid behind.
"ANSWER: (Phil 3:19 KJV) Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind EARTHLY things.
"Druidking: Only I can stand up with faith in MY belief and I will NOT HIDE like a scolded dog!
"ANSWER: E-MAIL ADDRESS - firstname.lastname@example.org
(2 Tim 3:8 KJV) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."
Pastor Daniel concludes by giving us Winland's e-mail address: "email@example.com"
The next letter that Pastor Daniel presents us with is from a person using the moniker "Tashuu". Tashuu commences by writing:
"I had privilege to visit your site this evening... having seen a stir on the Witches of ICQ mailing list in dispute to the topics you have written on. Myself ... I can say I do not agree with most of your writings... but there again they are your opinion. You seem to be a very close-minded individual. I have been raised in Family Tradition, and have studied Wicca and Christianity to a great extent... and find many flaws in your information you have offered. You seem to portray a picture that if a person does not follow your God ... they are Satanists. Most I have talked to are upset because you seem to have attacked Wicca... I find disgruntlement in the fact that you attack the Freemasons. This is an organization along with the Shrine (respectively) that offer many services and good things back to the community and it is a shame you should discredit them in the sense that you are.
My Opinion Brightest of blessings in your world,
E-mail address firstname.lastname@example.org"
In answer Pastor Daniel asks Tashuu if he had viewed the history channel, claiming that they had just done "a historical view and furnished information on the evils of Freemasons". Daniel does not give us the date or the name of the program that he is referring to.
Next Pastor Daniel presents us with an exchange with an E. Jones which commences with Jones complaining that she is outraged with the Thunder Ministries web pages. She asks Daniel where he gets his information and Daniel replies that it is from Richard Cavendish's Man, Myth and Magic series. As we have seen earlier in this series, many of the other people that I have written about have used this as a resource. The Witchcraft described in it is of the type described by the Inquisition and does not reflect modern Wicca. The exchange between them continues thus:
"JONES: In my life I have been surrounded by all types of religions and all types of people, and from my experience, every grouping I have come in contact with, has had it's share of 'bad representations' of the said religion. So I am curious as to what denomination you are, because I am sure that I too, could generalize about the kind of people you are, by the other folks I know with the same beliefs.
"ANSWER: I am of no denomination, I am a true Christian. Christian means someone that is Christ like, not one that believes in Christ. If it was true that someone who believed in Christ was a Christian. Satan also would be a Christian and saved. (James 2:19 KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the DEVILS ALSO BELIEVE, AND TREMBLE. I am a true believer, because I am a doer in Christ Jesus."
NOTE: Pastor Daniel, like many of the people that I have written about in this series, is using the tired argument that his version of Christianity is the only valid one. Like many others of this ilk he claims that it isn't a denomination of Christianity at all. Of course he is also arguing that his "non-denomination" is the only valid religion and that everything else is Satanism. The exchange continues:
"JONES: "This sir, with all due respect is what you have done to the name of Wicca. I along with many other ways of faith, have studied Wicca, and in no book that I own, or have come across, is there any mention of any of the atrocities you spoke of in the article. Granted, there are some horrible people, that call themselves Wiccan, and do these horrible things. But the majority don't. Because we as a group do not believe in nor condone any human sacrifice, or anything of the sort. We have a beautiful basis for our beliefs and the causes some/all of us stand for, go far beyond the negative and nasty work you have done by printing the falsehoods on that page on your site. You are condoning; and in a way leading the hate-mongers of the world, to continue it's path in prejudism and hatred for the different and misunderstood. I also found that some of the references you made to scriptures, we somewhat wrong and others blatantly misinterpreted.
"ANSWER: Witches are of Satan and not of Christ Jesus. (Deu 18:10 KJV) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch."
NOTE: See how Pastor Daniel avoids the questions and concerns of Jones by simply quoting Deuteronomy? What Jones says about Wiccan books is true and the concerns of Jones are valid.
"JONES: (I do own a bible and I looked them up.) ((And one strange thing I am curious about more than any other, is what is the deal with the comment about redheads!! I mean really!!!!))
"ANSWER: Learn to understand it and follow Jesus. Please note I don't feel you are necessarily worth the negative energy I am putting forth by writing you, by let it be known, as soon as I conclude this message, I am going to resume the duties I was put on this earth to do in this lifetime. ANSWER: All souls are important and you are worth the energy. I hope you will find salvation through Jesus Christ."
NOTE: Once again, Daniel does not answer Jones's question. The nonsense about red-heads being Witches comes from the Malleus Maleficarum, the infamous Inquisitional manual. If Daniel knows this (and he may not) he certainly doesn't want to deal with it.
"JONES: And if you are interested, this would include, loving and caring for my family, teaching my children respect for others regardless of our differences, teaching them to love and teaching them their ABC's. kissing my husband on the cheek, just because, and then maybe calling my mom to tell her goodnight, before she goes to bed. Not so much like YOU printed up as we Wiccans run our lives, hmmmm
"ANSWER: Satan always makes something sound pleasant, but always kills the soul. (Gen 3:4 KJV) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die."
NOTE: Pastor Daniel is ducking and weaving again here, supplying us with yet another scriptural passage in lieu of a clear answer. This one doesn't even seem to relate to Jones's comment. Isn't it interesting how Daniel's comment seems to give the impression that loving your family and kissing your spouse is simply "Satan making something sound pleasant".
Pastor Daniel concludes this page with the comment:
"I will call no individual names and belittle them. The word of God has said what needs to be said. It also calls them what they are. I attack all false doctrine that goes against Christ Jesus. The word of God will set you free. May the Lord Jesus lead all of you in Wicca into his precious faith. I wish you no harm and pray that you be saved and accept Jesus Christ as your personnel savior. I truly pray you will find Jesus not just another religion as most Christian sects claim."
(Continued... Click HERE for page II)
Article ID: 6369
Age Group: Adult
Days Up: 4,612
Times Read: 7,885
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Bio: Kerr Cuhulain the author of this article, is known to the mundane world as Detective Constable Charles Ennis. Ennis, a former child abuse investigator, is the author of several articles on child abuse investigation that appeared in Law & Order Magazine. Better known to the Pagan community by his Wiccan name, Kerr Cuhulain, Ennis was the first Wiccan police officer to go public about his beliefs 28 years ago. Kerr is now the Preceptor General of Officers of Avalon. Kerr went on to write four books: The Law Enforcement Guide to Wicca (Horned Owl Publishing), Wiccan Warrior and Full Contact Magick: A Book of Shadows for the Wiccan Warrior. (Llewellyn Publications), as well as a book based on this series: Witch Hunts: Out of the Broom Closet (Spiral Publishing).
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