Witch Community Thoughts Page 07
Article ID: 2246
Age Group: Adult
Days Up: 6,379
Times Read: 12,405
Author: Pagan Communities
Posted: December 13th. 1998
Times Viewed: 12,405
|phoenix - key west,|
"I believe we have a huge problem. Our religion is now a cash thing.we need to question the material thats being written. I am glad that there are a lot of new people who are getting into it. Its a beautiful thing. but we have people who are out there reading half a bookand threatening to throw spells on anyone who doesnt give them what they want. Whats the message that some of this material is sending It is no longer about what you believe its do you have any beliefs. Are you riding the fencepost because you want to be openminded or because you dont know what you believe. If the materialin a book is a rehash of twenty other books what good does it do.If the material says that it doesnt believe in using material for manipulation and gives it anyway. Hypocritical. Are the majority of thespells geared towards love and money. Whats the messsage. Whatabout the store owners that read half a book and decide they are anauthority. What are you selling. What makes most of these peopleauthorities. Question your authority. Maybe it is time we sent a message back something like do you really have somehting to addthat we should all take note of or are you taking up space. I dont seewhy we dont evaluate the material in the same way we evaluatetexts. After all isnt that what they want it to be. How many times do we open a book and it says there is much debate over the date of theequinoxes and it doesnt tell you why. Where are they getting their info. Thanx for your time"
Date Posted: 12/2/98 Email: email@example.com
|Isabellafyre - bluefield, Virginia|
"I sat here and read about the problems within the pagan community. Many thoughts are going through my head. I am not sure where to start. People forget the fact that we do what we do for the love and honour of the Goddess. I am positive that she would not take kindly to some of the actions taken by her followers. If people are motivated by money power or sex then they are not in it for the glorification of the Goddess. SHE led me to wicca not the promise of casting spells. Who am I to say that your opinion is right over mine Who are you to say that your opinion is right over mine Theses petty arguments bring a darkness to Her. I refuse to do anything that would bring about a darkening to Her name. People need to keep Her in mind the next time an opinion is expressed loudly. Will we burn our ownselves this time around I am sad and I cry for our brothers and sisters who cant seem to get along. In a world where so many are afraid of us and against us we can not afford to fight. All my love Blesses be"
Date Posted: 12/3/98 Email: Isabellafyre@usa.net
|Tom Sturm - Florence, Kentucky|
"With the strides we as a community have made in the past decade or so and with the knowledge we have been able to impart to the general public about our religion why can we not parctice the tolerance that we preach so strongly about. Many of the problems that we are having stem from a difference of opinions. WE should practice this way or that or we should beleave on way or another. We as witches and pagans have to be a little thincker skinned. If someone has a different view on a particular subject have the courtesy to listen to them and at least entertain the ideas that they are offering up to you. We are a closed mouthed bunch. If someone offers information up to you take it and consider it. If you only listen to those who think like you you will never grow. Without growth there is stagnation and with stagnation comes spiritual decay and death. Be open to other ideas.With age comes experience. Listen and learn. Do not be closed minded like those other religions we talk about in private. If we do not try to come together we will become the very thing we hate. Blessed Be and Happy YuleTom Sturm"
Date Posted: 12/5/98 Email: TalonStorm@aol.com
|MofTheG - Wollongong, New South Wales|
"The Law of 3 will protect the inocent And will punish the Ego power hungry wars that happen. Ego is the main reason these things happen. If we can learn to control our powers Then we can learn to control the Ego.If you dont like what your coven is doing Leave.If you are in a war ask for Justice. Pull the card out of the pack Meditate on it And be ready for your Karma. It will come. But so will the other partys. I have used this for every day problems with every day peopleAnd it works.Only as a United Community can we reclaim the place that was taken away from us 2000 years ago. Wars devide us all. We need to be more understanding of others rights.MofTheG"
Date Posted: 12/5/98 Email: nawk@ozEmail.com.au
|Alan Lisle - Vancouver, British Columbia|
"Being only nominal a member of the Pagan community Im still proud to call myself a pagan. Proud because a pagan path is one of acceptance. In my experience and that of the few other pagans I know pagans in general do not quible over who is a member of what religion. We do not accuse anyone no matter what theyre calling is. Why then if I am able to accept Christianity Catholicism Judaism and Raelians would I not accept all the forms that the pagan craft comes in *Including devil worship and Satanism. There are no witch wars - a witch wouldnt go to war with another witch over religion. A pagan Witch Wiccan Shaman Druid monk etc would accept anothers religion. Perhaps we accept religions that dont tolerate we Pagans from a heathly distance - there is still acceptance in pagan eyes."
Date Posted: 12/8/98 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|amanda - Key west,|
" Ok guys this is the last time I attempt to reach you. I have tried three times and that gives me 4. the number pf solidarity. I will not try again.I did not cry about the witch wars that are going on here. I mean no disrespect towards you or what you have accomplished. I mean to tell you there is a generation gap you are not paying attention to . We obey all the rules and in public we say nothing bout who we are and what we do or anything relevant to our religion. We get hurt staying out of the way for a long time. We didnt come to you for consolationguidance or anything. we came with solutions. We have worked too long and too hard too lose it now. I am begging you to pay attentionbecause eeven though there was a time and a need for putting this craft under a wide unbrella its time to pay attention to what is happening on the homefront it would really suck to have to start all over again. We are paying the penalty big time and the security of the three fold isnt enough. we take astronomy with astrology physics to equate with magic we studythe economy ruling class literature agriculture familystructure sexuality etc.for our pantheons. the only way left to reach you is Bufffalo Springfield and I am only putting in the words i feel relevant
"Somethings happening here... What it is aint exatly clear... I think its time we stop! Children whats that sound? Everybody look whats going down""
Date Posted: 12/12/98 Email: email@example.com
|Joline - lewiston, Maine|
"I think it is time for witches to be considered part of the community and be able to marry and go about our ways as christains and other religions in this country. I know other teen witches like myself who are afraid to admit who we are and what we beleive in fear of hate crimes and harassment. Until then all we can do is hide in our closets until people are able to accept us as who we are and what we beleive. I hope all witches think this way and are helping to fight for our rights as witches and as human beings."
Date Posted: 12/25/98 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Bridey OEighty - Rochester, New York|
"Merry Meet. Ego is the cause of much pain and suffering in and out of the Craft. We have to keep in mind that the very reasons we are practicing wicca andor are pagans is to free ourselves from the egotistic authority figures and dogmatic attitudes of the right Path and the only Way. I have experienced a couple extreme incidences of being ridiculed and subsequently ignored by one of the wiccan gurus when I expressed an opinion which differed from hers on a specific topic. There are people in the craft who think this woman is goddess incarnate I found her to be a shreiking harpie. She was inconsiderate nasty and totally unlike the self-portrait she paints in various media booksvideos. I feel that if a person sets him or herself up as a teacher or leader in the craft she should be held to standards not the least of which are the basics...like PLEASE AND THANK YOU. Remember what mom used to say about polite behavior going a LONG way When I related the above experience to some other witchwomen their response was that the leaderteacher was HUMAN after all. Ah yes the old I AM EXEMPT FROM BEING CONSIDERATE BECAUSE I AM HUMAN AFTER ALL lame excuse. I feel that the persons indulging in witch wars should be ignored by all of us specifically by boycotting their conferences lectures and workshops. Thanks for the venue for expression. Bridey"
Date Posted: 12/27/98 Email: AvonRd@excite.com
|styra - hamilton,|
"i am a solitaire so i do not see alot of this thing. i have heard stories though and so have my parents. in a way i am in the broom closet with them because even though they know i am into wicca they dont realize i am wiccan they think its just a phase but occasionally they will make remarks when they hear something on the news see something on the t.v. the movie the craft did not help my situation and i know the negative effects these witch wars can have on us. we really do need to stick together and i am happy that you dedicated your page to that. lady bless and lord protectstyrahttpwww.geocities.comArea51Nebula4127"
Date Posted: 1/3/99 Email: email@example.com
|Klaudia - Madison, Alabama|
"Its a shame that a religion that focuses on universal love could be so divided. I have been a practicing Witch for over 8 years now. I am very neutral in reference to the Witch Wars. I am able to see all sides of a dispute but I think it is a shame that so many others cannot do this. We are all in this together. We need to unite and stop working against each other. I pray to the Goddess and God everyday that this will happen in my lifetime."
Date Posted: 1/10/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Redwyn - Seattle, Washington|
"Because its very difficult to work my way into the deeper areas of the Pagan community I have never had the experience of being in the middle of a Witch War. I was witness to one and the challenge was legitimate as a local man had been using his position as an Elder to coerce young teenage girls into having sex with him. But the woman who started it all out of purely good intentions ended up with a great deal of her reputation ruined by false accusations and public attacks. It struck me as amazing that neither side stopped a second to realize that the issue was no longer the problem it was the growing dislike for the other side. When whatever the issue being discussed is dropped in favor of personal attacks well...as I like to say it shows far more about the person attacking than the individual being attacked. That isnt to say that everyone should keep level-headed and peaceable all the time. Thats totally unrealistic no human short of Ghandi could pull that one off. One of the trends today is to emphasize ones personal life wants needs and beliefs over that of others and there is utterly no attempt to even try to understand the beliefs of another. Several times I have been guilty of this myself. But in truth if one was to take a step back and consider where the other individual is coming from it actually proves to be quite an epiphany for them. The ability to understand where another is coming from whether you agree with them or not opens your mind to all sorts of possibilities and makes it far easier for you to see where an individual is coming from later on. After all its easier to explain something to someone if you know their language in this case the language that being an ideology or religion. This is something a lot of people need to work on and the number one cause of strife. Come on folks were supposed to be the tolerant and open-minded ones lets work on it and show them just how much we are."
Date Posted: 1/12/99 Email: email@example.com
|Jonathan Osif - Williamsport, Pennsylvania|
"I read most of these articles about witch wars and some were disturbing at first. But when i thought about them it made perfect sense to happen. some conflict is good. it gets all the people who practically think that pagan religions are all sweetness and light.the conflicts while damaging in their own right actually do some good... they can show the participants how far theyll actually go for a cause and also show people that we arent all sweetness and light. it shows that we can be just as cruel and vindictive as everyone else. this isnt necessarily a good thing but it does get rid of the halo that some people have given us and shows that were human. the only other good that may or may not come from a witch war is the will to never repeat something like this. it may also take away the will to practice all together but such is the way of things.i have now finished my commentary on witch wars. This is ME signing off. thank you and goodnight. play nitely news music"
Date Posted: 1/16/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Diana - Providence, Rhode Island|
"Hi I just wanted to drop a line to let you all know how much I enjoy this web site. I have a large circle of friends of different ethnic and religous backgrounds but they dont totally understandme being a Witch. So this is a great place to go where I can learn and communicate with people who have almost the same beliefs I do. I am a solitary Witch by choise but enjoy hearng about and learning from other Pagans and Witches. Blessed be Diana"
Date Posted: 1/28/99 Email: Dascencao@aol.com
|Eric Draven - Morgantown, West Virginia|
"The realm of the craft is one that i in joy. I have been learning the craft since i was 6 and now i am 16 i have leard so much that when i was 10 i have been a wicca. I have helped so many people with my knowledge and got so much in return. I wish that i could help more people but the people i want to help wont let me. they think that i cant help them with there problems. Eric Draven"
Date Posted: 2/7/99 Email: Malkviana1@hotmail.com
|Aquarial GoldenHawk - Winchester, Virginia|
"My name is Aquarial and even tough I am only 14 I know there is a problem goinmg on around me in the one religion that I thought I could find peace. I came here trying to find a religon without hate for each other. How can we expect the christians to treat us like a religion if we fight amongst ourselves like children Some of the covens are fighting because they dont like the way another one does rituals or worhips the Lord and Lady. But isnt that why most of us have chosen to be Wiccan or Pagan to get away from all they fighting of the other religions Please sope the fighting so we can be one family like the Goddess intended.Blessed Be all how follow the old ways AquarialP.S. If this e-mail has made anyone think about the problems we are facing tell me."
Date Posted: 2/7/99 Email: email@example.com
|brian chapman - syracuse, New York|
"i am a beginner at this point. right now i question everything but what i way is truth real truth and spirit. i am considerd a catholic by how i got brought up but i have learned that your real upbringing is you it means that family has a real role but people are one with themselvesthey have quirks. but the point is spirituality.it is the essence of ones heart and soul and that should never be taken for expulsion.the wiccan philosophy is beautiful and magical the answers are within if groups like the majorities got control on the band of history than will and karma will happen to change the effectsstill the fact is we are all human we have a soul and we should look out for eachother . a clear mind and focus with strategy will be a new beginning. lets end the ills that are here if there is will then theres got to be a way.i have learned that responsibility gives you success and paganism is truth to that. one religon and one state should never infringe upon that.open mindedness is the real reality responsibility is the challenge this is a great country still not perfect"
Date Posted: 2/7/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Kaleb Taylor - Ashland , Oregon|
"I would like to thank you for the oppurtunity to share my thoughts with other Pagans. I have been a Witch for four years now and have also been studying as many different aspects of Magick as I possibly can. I find it more than a little ridiculous for anyone to not pay attention to Everything that is going on around them. Recently I started to study the Magickal systems of the ancient Sumerians due to visions I have been recieving. The Sumerians belived as far as I can acertain that the Elder Gods or good deities were going to have a second war with the Ancient Ones or the bad deities. Man would be caught in the middle and yet somehow play an intregal part of the battle. My vision consisted of me and others like me preparing and teaching others for an oncoming struggle. My point to all of this is thus. As Pagans we should see it as our position to share within not only our community but with anyone who listens. I am not a loon. Many others I have spoken with have shared the same vision. My visions Increase with there intensity every time. Have you ever wondered why we as a group are growing so rapidly There is one thing I have learned as a Pagan and that is everything happens for a reason. A time is coming when we will be gravely needed by our communities our friends our families. We are all given a gift and we need to share because we will all need each other. So I call now for she is calling us all. Join call on each other for support and knowledge. The time for secrets in our community needs to end. Why do we try to hold the truth from each other. We must stop this socialy taught lie. We are supposed to be the seekers of truth yet if we do not share these truths than we are no better than a politician. Listen...listen very carefully...and you to will here the Gods crying at our ignorance. So you can think I am wrong. You can think that my ideals are not in line with yours. But scoul at me not for one day we might all be in trouble and it might be me or others like me you look to for help. I love all for that is what I am taught. I question not my destiny only my paths. So if I cross paths with you some day I look foward to sharing knowledge. For I am better than no other and no other better than I. BLESSED BE AS ABOVE SO BELOW...KALEB"
Date Posted: 2/9/99 Email: Death_of_Lies@hotmail.com
|Raivyne - Tampa,|
"It is a shame that those of the PaganWiccanWitch community must fight over whose path is the correct path to follow. The most important thing that has been forgotten is the fact that not one but all are correct. Each of us must do what feels comfortable to us and not force our pathbeliefs on another. What feels right to me may not feel right to another. If we all followed the same beliefs there would be no magic. For without the blend of each personality magic can not grow and become vibrant. If the wars continue then we ourselves will be like the people in Ireland who fight each other Irish Catholics and Irish Prodestants. They have forgotten that though they are of different beliefs both their paths lead to the same center. This center is where all beliefs lead. Some may cross and intertwine some may sit opposite each other but the end result is the same. Each leads to the center where all begins and all ends. Each path yeilds a new light a new dimension all dancing and blending. We must never forget that if only one path is the right path and all others are the wrong ones then magic creativity and individuality will cease to exist."
Date Posted: 2/9/99 Email: Enchantale@aol.com
|Storm ShadowBane - Falmouth, Kentucky|
"Greetings and salutations to any and all. This is my first submission to your very interesting site. I have lived through a few wars myself having been a practicing Pagan for over thirty years. Unfortunately the reasons never change 1. everyone wants their way to be different i.e. unique the only right way. 2. someone feels slighted so their former associates and coveners are suddenly revealed for their evil or wrong ways. 3. someone wants to have someone else by the genitalia figurtivly or perhaps literally. It is sad that in anger or hurt or want most of us Pagans are no better than the early Xtians fighting for power. I submit that this is only my opinion. Respectfully yours in the GodsStorm ShadowBane"
Date Posted: 2/9/99 Email: Dragonsgate1@juno.com
|Stanstiat - DenverColorado Sp, Colorado|
"Im sure that this is not a new angle but isnt variety of people and variety of their beliefs one of the earmarks of Wicca and paganism As followers of Nature with Nature being our classroom why cant these Witch Warriors look to Nature and see the variety it teaches Variety is found everywhere - in animals plants stones - why must WE be of a single feather I ask these questions to the Witch Warriors themselves. I truly believe that their search to answer these questions will squelch the fires."
Date Posted: 2/11/99 Email: asaylorco.trawick.com
|Andrea Sobiech - Silver Spring, Maryland|
"I am pleased to see that you are addressing the contentious issue of Witch Wars. It is admirable to see a public venue stubbornly refusing to get caught up in partisan politics. Everyone I have met so far in the Pagan community has been extremely supportive and warm and I have not encountered any wars yet but I have experienced negative and malicious gossip in the past and observed its divisive effects. Keep up the good work"
Date Posted: 11/20/98 Email: email@example.com
|Branwen - Tyler, Texas|
"Thank you so much for addressing the problem of witch wars and the destructive power they have on our blessed community. I was a HPS for almost two years and unfortunatley became involved in a witch war that led to the down fall of my coven. One thing as witches that I think we sometimes forget is that we are humans first witches second. There will always be witch wars and this sad fact just goes back to basci human nature and the power over society that we live in. In Texas it can get so bad that I dont know who is talking or not talking to whom from one gathering to the next. I personally feel the only way to overcome this problem is for witches worldwide to send out as much healing energy as we can on a macrocosmic scale.
Energy from the God and Goddess and ourselves to help us gain the wisdom and deep love to overcome this problem in other words we need to at times shed our human frailities and try to strive to be as the Gods want us to be. Perfect love and Perfect trust should be the anthem of covens solitaires and all witches. I love our religion and yes folks it is a religion. I miss the people that my witch war severed me from I do not intend to ever be a part of another witch war again. As some people have commented theres something to be said for a solitary practise but its covens and circles that give us unity and strength. Blessed BE"
Date Posted: 11/22/98 Email: Branwen@email.com
|Kaelyn - Phoenix, Arizona|
"We come from a society that has been Xtian dominated for 400 years and a world dominated by that mind set for 5000. There are societal tapes that we hear from the cradle to the grave. Even if we as enlightened people on a spiritual path seek to leave these things behind these tapes still play in the back of our head. If we have not truly progressed past them and it takes a shockngly long time these tapes and the ways they tell us to respond to hostile or unfamiliar circumstances are what we revert to when our more recent training fails.
We as pagans must be committed to our way of life. If we want our magick to work we must live our lives in accordance with what we say we believe. As I say so mote it be has very real applications complications and consequences in our everyday life. If what we say isnt necessarily so our magick and anything else we try to create in our lives will not necessarily happen.
When we live with conviction and conscious practice then what we say IS so and we gain power to create the life we choose. As for core values. I feel they are fairly simple.
We have and will continue to support laws and policies that promote religious tolerance and freedom.Our country was founded be people who although many were xtian in one form or another were not free to practice their faith as they saw fit. I believe that freedom equals choice. I believe that all taxpaying citizens of this country shoud have the same rights privileges responsibilities and opportunities. PERIOD.So what is Paganism about. To me it is following these precepts. Acknowledging that we have a responsibility to care for the Earth and stepping up to that responsibility. Paganism is about making choices and creating the life we choose. Protecting ourselves property and loved ones. We are about building community not fences. Embracing diversity rather than passing judgement. Working together to find a solution rather than concentrating on finding fault.There will always be bad apples. We also have the freedom and responsibility to choose with whom we associate. I feel this is one of our most important responsibilities.
- The Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have done to you.
- Respect for life and the Earth the acknowledgement that both Life and Death are part of the balance. They cannot be separated one does not exist wo the other.
- Most of us believe in reincarnation in one form or another.
- The Law of Three That which you do good or bad wil be returned x3. This is basically a form of Karma
- We do not believe there is a ONE TRUE WAY. Religion originally meant re-linking and each person must find the path that works best for them. If it doesnt help you connect with divinity in what ever form you perceive it it isnt doing you much good.
- WE DO NOT RECRUIT
- We do not atempt to coerce others to our path by outlawing other religions or by forcing our religious rules and laws to become public policy.
When speaking to a newcomer we must express that the path is a little ifferent for each person and encourage them to ask questions. How can you make an accurate informed decision w/o information. If a teacher doesnt encourage your interaction wa large numer of people or tries to discourage your questions especially by saying that they will tell you what you need to know when you need to know it I would strongly suggest finding another teacher.We must also remember that others have the right to see things differently. That does not inherently make them wrong. They might see it from an angle you had not considered. We must be able to agree to disagree.
The last point to this reather epic commentary is that when speaking to someone we are in disagreement with we must be able to stick to the issue at hand by discussing it. We do not attack although this can be very difficult to resist. If we cannot come to an agreement we can always refuse to discuss it. As pagans we must encourage each others growth rather than jealously holding on to circle or coven members because it gives us status and ower to be the high priestess of a well known group. If we dont allow and encourage personal growth and independence then we are no better than the Christians we try to separate ourselves from.I welcome e-mail on this subject all I ask is that you be as civil as I have been.Ever part of the Circle Merry meet Merry part Merry meet again. Blessed Be. Kaelyn Traveler "
Date Posted: 11/22/98 Email: kaelyn_8hotmail.com
|Kaelyn Traveler - Phoenix , Arizona|
"This is a touchy subject but boy am I glad its being aired. Especially in a open forum. THANK YOU One of ther respondents mentioned that fire can clear out the deadwood and purify things. It was also mentioned that we shouldnt shy away from starting something when there is a serious problem. I do not believe that Paganism is doormatism I am willing to protect myself property and my loved ones against fraud etc. But I must still find the balance between protecting them and allowing them to make the choices and mistakes that help us grow as people.
If I saw a HP or HPS demanding large donations or stating that the only way to become initiated is through sex or some other blatantly fraudulent nonsense I would most certainly stand up against it.A breif word about charging for classes. If a group is holding a basic pagan 101 class in a local bookstore it is apropriate to charge a nominal fee Not more than 5 or 10 per class to cover their space cost of producing handouts etc. After all the person staying late at the store deserves to be paid for their work dont they. In a circle situation if the group is large enough that each persons specialty contributes to reducing the cost of running the group then dues are not needed. But please lets remember that purchasing incense candles flowers treat bags ribbonafter circle goodies and all the other things that go into ritual costs money. I do not think the HP or HPS should bear these costs alone. I see nothing wrong with very nominal circle dues. say 5 per member per month. The account books must be open to all members. When the amount reaches a given amount say 50 - 60. The group may choose to have a feast or donate the in canned food to a food bank or any other cause the group deems valid worthy. However if you are accepted into the training circle of a circle or coven you should not be expected to pay more than standard dues.
Charging for training in a circle that specifically leads to initiation in that circle or coven is not standard practice. I would be highly suspicious of someone who tells you different.If you are new to the Craft the single most important thing you can do is ask a lot of wuestions. Not just about what an individual believes but WHY. If they cant deal with your questions think twice about what they want to teach you. Most circle menbers will teach you basics within their area of specialty for free. Lets say you wanted to learn from an herbalist about making incense. it would be fair for you to be charged the cost of what you use. But unless we are teaching a group or you use a large amount or a paricularly epensive herb most of us waive even that because we want to encourage you to learn. if you are learning from either an idividual or group ask what they need done or what you can do in exchange.
All life flows in the circle do your best to give back within your ablities. Maybe youe a mechanic and the one who is teaching you candlemaking desperately needs a tune-up. You get the picture. Blessed be."
Date Posted: 11/22/98 Email: kaelyn_8hotmail.com
Location: Various, Florida
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