Witch Community Thoughts Page 08
Article ID: 2247
Age Group: Adult
Days Up: 6,610
Times Read: 12,977
Author: Pagan Communities
Posted: December 13th. 1998
Times Viewed: 12,977
|Rhiannon - Las Vegas, Nevada|
"I got so tired of the BS of Witch Wars that I opted out of the community altogether. Ive been strictly a Sole Practicioner for 5 years now and I dont associate with any local Pagans not even to shop for supplies. My only contact with other Pagans is on the Internet thats just fine with me. I was a Solitary before I found the Pagan community after all so being one again isnt very hard.I think that community itself is at the root of the problem. Its pretty hard to be us without them. If the Christians and society at large arent them enough if they arent actively persecuting us then we turn on each other as a way to reassure ourselves that we really belong. If I am a real witch and you are a poseur or if I do only good spells and you only do hexes and banes then I can have a nice warm cozy feeling of belonging. Too bad it was at your expense.Witch Wars are also stimulating and fun for those who find reality too boring. This is also nothing but human nature but when most people crave a little combat they play Doom or something. Witch Wars are just a little Mortal Kombat to get the old adrenalin pumping when being good and harming none seem a mite tame. Too bad the people that get hurt by the character assassination and gossip are real flesh and blood and heart.Witch Wars are a juvenile pastime. Too bad there are 50-year-old HPs still fighting them."
Date Posted: 2/15/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Rev. Sylvanea ArgentMoone - San Bernardino, California|
"I find the idea of a Witch War foolish. We all practice the rede we all believe in the Threefold Law whats the problem So we have differances. Oh goddess differances. How horrible. We wouldnt be human if we didnt argue a little. You cant have a duality and not have at LEAST two sides to everything. I myself am Eclectic relying heavily on the Anglo-Saxon tradition. I dont think that anyone is wrong. We all have our ideas. Who cares what name you use to call the goddess shes still the goddess and human names dont chnage that."
Date Posted: 2/19/99 Email: email@example.com
|Jennifer Prell - Columbus, Ohio|
"My best friend is a Devoute Christian who everytime she hears or sees an act of irresponsible hatefull or otherwise reprehensible behavior by another Christian she immediately announces that those people are not Christian. Everytime this happens I tend to flinch a bit. The truth is they are Christian maybe not very good ones but they never the less are. Most of the time the rest of the Christian Community remains silent including my friend on whatever nasty issue was raised. This is the type of behavior I do NOT want to see Pagans emulate. When one person or group does something similarly unacceptable we have to be ready to stand up and make it clear this behavior is not going to be tolerated. Instead of declaring that someone is NOT Pagan unless it really is a case of not being Pagan and a case of defamation we need to take responsibility for our own. We have to remember that anyone or group of Pagans that have contact with the general public represents all of us LIKE IT OR NOT. And when these people go astray in a very bad and hurtful we have to be clear and vocal about it. Otherwise we end up with situations like the Catholic church having to apologise 50 years later for some of its memebers who cooperated with the Nazis and an ugly stain on its honor among other ugly stains. Or the All Christian churches being made out as homophobic lunatics because of the actions of some of the more fundementalist non scholarly sects. Like the Southern Baptists who are boycotting Disney for extending bennifits to GaysLesbian live in partners. Or some Islamic groups who are oppressing and enslaving and killing women and declaring that this is a part of true Islam. The truth is these people are the ones who easily make the news because it sells advertisements and moves merchandise. The rest of us have to speak up a little louder in order to even be heard at all. It is difficult and innconvienient and annoying to put politely but if we really want to advance Paganism and the Goddess at all this is what has to be done.Thank you for your timeJennifer Prell"
Date Posted: 2/19/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Paula - Medford, Oregon|
"Merry Meet. I too was oblivious to what was happening among our strong and powerful. I am a solitaire but envy the coming together of the Goddesss children. I offer my light and energy towards resolution unification and the ultimate goal. Blessed Be."
Date Posted: 2/19/99 Email: Redhedbbw@aol.com
|leigha witkowski - pgh, Pennsylvania|
"ive been exposed to wicca since i was very young.to which i cannot thank my mother enoughbut while growing up i too had myfair share of discrimanationfor i went to a ugh catholic school those were the worst 8 yrs i had but i also showed me just how closed minded they really are.and it hurts me to hear that even to this day we still face some sort of discrimination. yet it seems with every fall westillmanage to. speak outto all my fellow brothers and sisters i stand beside you and will add my voice also keep up the excellent workBlessed be all"
Date Posted: 2/23/99 Email: email@example.com
|pinky - madison, Montana|
"I have found a safe space much to my surprise cyber-relating to what you folks are about. It is in me too. Eventually I will connect in a more literal way with the like minded seekers of truth joy and love. Meanwhile remember out of chaos comes order. As in the fires of Yellowstone cleansing and renewal can occur. Take notice of the words of Jesus...do unto others as you would have others do unto you forgive your enemies and love the unloved. share strength Pinky"
Date Posted: 2/23/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Black Sable Knight - San Jose, California|
"Im a teacher and a sage to some Ive been taught since childhood. I dont follow a coven or a group but I believe in free discussion of the craft and spell work. I have seen the power of the witch war and the ability to unravel people and lives. Im a part of it becouse what affects you affects you affects me. I hope that we can learn from each other and disspell this witch war by education and free communication also I hope that we can be tolerant of each other and have respect no matter what robes we wearie. white grey or black. I teach some people and I send them out to learn about this great planet and energies around us. I teach tolerance and open paths. I just hope that when we leave this planet that we have learned alot to take to the spirits who chose not to come but gave us the oppertunity to do so. I like this site alot. It is everything that I hoped it to be. I dont like the pressure of a group or fakes but I love free speach and thought"
Date Posted: 2/25/99 Email: email@example.com
|Kali - Louisville, Kentucky|
"I just wanted to drop a line and say that from what Ive seen of your site you guys are doing a WONDERFUL job I am so glad I found you. I just read Peg Alois article on sex and nudity in covens. As a Gardnerian-in-training Im still pretty nervous about the BIG INITIATION RITUAL and skyclad Circles. Pegs article helped me put that into prespective and made me realize that Im not the only one who feels the way I do. I feel a little stronger now and not quite so much like an outsider black sheep. Thanks Peg."
Date Posted: 2/25/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|StarMajik Labbe - Las Vegas, Nevada|
"How wonderful that you have addressed this issue...and well done I dont know how unusual we are here in Vegas but pagans whom Ive met range from the open and friendly type to those who have had negative dealings and are either very paranoid or even truly crazy. I think that this is one of the reasons that so many of us are solitary. It all seems a bit silly one of the great things about being a pagan is being able to pick and choose or even create your own beliefs."
Date Posted: 3/4/99 Email: EmBane@aol.com
|Ken Ra - Minneaplolis, Minnesota|
"Witch wars What do we mean Personal and craft political disagreements gone beserk. Most witches are socially inept or incompentent. We need to cut people slack for them and us to grow up in. Abuse within the Craft, Rape by drugs, child pornography Theft by fraud domination by threats of physical violence acting in Bad Faith hurting others without cause. These perps dont deserve our protection. When witches protect or make excuses these filth we become covered with it. We have much to live down here. Where will we go as a comunity as a people How can we trust each other and get rid of the criminals it seems hopeless. I cant win and I cant give up."
Date Posted: 3/10/99 Email: Triskellion1@usfamily.net
|Rune - Stockbridge, Georgia|
"Personally I think that its a sad day when a Witch War begins.We are all of the same make yet we differ of our own will.There will never be a day when everone shares exactly the same views Heck the main reason I am where I am is because I have the free willto have my own view. I am fortunate enough to be involved in a group where the foremost consideration is that we all are entitled to cast circle together yet freely have our own view of whats happening.As a group we create tons of energy we dance chant and each of us at the same time may have different views of exactly what is happening. While what is physically happening is basic and to the point what is individually happening on a spiritual level is I am sure different. I have yet to personally encounter a Witch War. ButI feel confident enough that if I did encounter one I would simply walk away. I know where I stand. I am strong enough to realize that another Humans opinion of me and my views cannot change those views nor have an impact on these in any way. I alone have that freedom.Thank you for allowing me to vent. By the way you guys are the best.SolasRune"
Date Posted: 3/10/99 Email: Rune2112@aol.com
|Li Nightsong Ferelwing - Houston, Texas|
"I remember the first time I heard that used was in a coven. If I would have known then what I know now I would have stayed out of thier buisness. I got involved in a Witches War when I was still very new to my path. I believed that someone who was important in a coven was to be trusted no matter what. I was young and a solitaire. I wanted to belong and I wanted to meet others in the Pagan community and so when I met this particular group I was excited. I let one of the members convince me that the coven was out for sex and power and that it was evil. I believed it because well I was niave. I allowed that person to tell me that my family was a family trad because my relations had all studied wicca and witchcraft in the 60s and that because my grandmother happened to know a lot about it I must be family trad. Of course my grandmother believes that wicca is of the devil and even though she studied it she didnt understand any of it. I wanted to belong to something and so I let him talk me into all kinds of things and I ended up starting rumours and I let other people get involved because I was already believing what was going on. They started telling me I was a vampire like them and soon I was believing it. I started to believe in Astral vampires that attack people. I started to believe that I was Perfact. Those that stood in my way started getting rumours started about them because well I let everyone convince me that I was the leader. Soon I was as bad as the rest of them. I went on and on about how great I was and I never seemed to bat an eyelash about how other people might view my stupidity. I was giving everyone a bad name. I kept it up though until the few people who had supported me and didnt want anything to do with me either. When I lost the people I was trying to impress I started to realise what I had become and having a baby helped too I wanted to change out of the person who I had become however there really was no outlet btw people if you see someone who used to be a major pain trying to change dont be afraid to help even if its to tell them that they need to read this or that book by this point no one wanted to help me and I dont blame them. I had burned all my bridges. At this point I came to the decision that my name that I had been using in circle didnt fit me anymore. I changed it.
I moved away and started over. However the rumours are still out there. Now for what to do if you are in a Witch War. Take a good look in the mirror and look hard what are your reasons for this fight Why is it so important Can you bring yourself to just agree to disagree on that subject Is it really worth all the energy you are putting into it What would you do if the rest of the world learned that we were fighting amongst ourselves What advice would you give someone in this position Basically look in the mirror and ask yourself these questions and answer honestly. Then act. They may not be receptive but at least you tried. Remember that action in peace is far more difficult than action in anger. Try to remind yourself what would the goddess do If you cant agree at least try to celebrate your differences. If you run across a person who was like me let them know that thier kind isnt welcome but also dont attack them when they really try to make a personal change help them and they will always remember you for that. I have a lot of people that I still have to apologise to and I wish I could apologise to. They may never forgive me for the trouble I caused but perhaps in changing and realising my mistakes I will be sure to be able to help others.Light and LaughterLi Nightsong Ferelwing"
Date Posted: 3/14/99 Email: ferelwinghotmail.com
|Greg L. Bridges - New Castle, Indiana|
"In such an intregal time in human history it is sad when we known as the ones following the path of the wise take the easier road of the fools. Sadly for all our search for divinty we prove to be all too human. All witches and wiccans and pagans and yes even Christians are bound by one thing a search for the truth. The Gods do not care what road takes us to them but rather that we look for them. In the wild and untamed heart of all pagans beats a strong sense of the individual but as an individual we must remember we are all connected to the whole. The same bonds we use to manipulate forces for our good and the good of man also bind all men and all living things together. We should respect them as we respect ourselves. Whether we worship Diana Isis Dinoay or the great spirit We are one. It deeply saddens me that my brothers and sisters fight each other for such things as power money and sex. What are they when compared to the joy your religion brings you If these things are earned or meant to be trust in your Gods and Spirits to bring them to you. All else is Ego. Be proud of who you are. Be proud of the Gods you worship. If you are truly at peace with these things then you will have no need to justify it to others. If you must convince others you are right through forces ask yourself how right you truly are. Perhaps someday we can all culminate under one roof in one place and not focus on what we see that is different but rather what we have in common with all our pagan brothers Unititng perhaps as the Unitarians do. I look forward to the day when witches are looked at with the same dignity as other religions and its gods and spirits looked at as no more than denomination as in a protestant faith i.e. baptist lutherians etc.We still have many battles to fight as a whole we not not quibble with each other. I would like to see the United States recognize our marriages and holymen as I am sure many would. Then for not just the love of your deity but of your fellow men and women stop the persuction of one another. Remember Salem. The only difference is we are setting ourselves on fire this time by persecuting our brothers when the fault lies in ourselves."
Date Posted: 3/19/99 Email: email@example.com
|Blue - Sacramento, California|
"I find it dissatisfying that so many pagan groups treat solitaries as not real Witches. If an individual has been practicing solitary for almost 8 years as I have and contacts a coven for any reason the individual is treated as if not educated about the Craft or worse as a child playing a Witchy game. I recently felt the need to seek a group so I could enter the priesthood. I explained myself and was treated with gross disrespect. Maybe this was hazing but it was neither necessary nor appropriate. From this point on I intend to seek acceptance and initiation and priesthood only from the Goddess herself and I dont want to hear it from those people initiated by others in a coven. I am a legitimate Witch and I shall be a legitimate Priestess. It is false that only a witch can make a witch. Only the Lady herself can."
Date Posted: 3/25/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Earth Raven - Fredericton, New Brunswick|
"As far as the topic of Witch Wars is concerened I am overjoyed that TWV has taking this initiative in bringing it to the attention of all those in this our Wiccan community. My view is a simple one and can be summed up in two words. HARM NONE. Its that simple. Sure you have heard this all before but seriously if we follow tis then we have nothing to fear. Do nothing that could hurt your fellow coven member or your family or your friends or your enemies. We are all equal Pagans and Christians. Islamic and Jew. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. We are all entitled to our own beleifs. If one coven beleives one thing and another something else... THATS GREAT. The way each solitary and each group can customize Wicca is what makes us unique. It is a shame that some of us are to busy pursuing the big three to realize that in the next life t will mean nothing. All you will carry is the lessons of this life. That is what is important. Learn. Share. Love each other and the Goddess and God. We are Wiccan Not many people can say this openly. Those of us who can are truly blessed by The All. Blessed be my friends EarthRaven"
Date Posted: 3/28/99 Email: email@example.com
|Joel - Jacksonville, Florida|
"I havent read much here other than the fact that people can discuss these issues through the internet - which is nice in that it provides the distance necessary to draw close. I am a Christian - and I find pagans much more accepting of Jesus than Christians. The point being that I find you to be Christians and you might say that Id be an adequate pagan - regardless - discuss the hard issues - which is what the churches wont do - and which is why most here - in my opinion - have to look to others besides the christians. perfect peace - Joel"
Date Posted: 3/28/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Linda - Hinkley, California|
"I had never heard the term Witch Wars but boy does it apply. I am trying to comprehend what difference it makes what type of magick you practice. I enjoy talking and learning about any type or method that may give me insights or a shift in my views so that I learn more. I have ran into people on the net who will not talk to wiccans or people who practice Tantra magick or the list goes on and on. I have never heard of an osk tree hurting a pine that might grow near it. They do have a privet space around themselves but they dont toxify each other out because they are two varied types. I really wish people could get past the lables and politickin of their Crafts. I am a pagan meaning I have my own private faith that does not follow any specified religion but I dont refuse to talk to someone because they are not like me. No one is like me and that is alright and I am in turn like no one else we do share similar ideas on occasions and varied ideas most of the time but that is what makes life interesting for me. How else am I going to learn. I wish people could understand that faith is a very personal thing it belongs to the individual. What works for you is wonderful because it works for you. What works for me is just that It works for me. Lets talk and maybe we can find things that work for both of us and share joy in that moment. If we can not find anything that we agree on then let us find joy in the fact that we talked. thanks for the ears and my e-mail is open to all May you and all who walk with you find joy in what ever path you trod upon. froggy"
Date Posted: 4/8/99 Email: email@example.com
|Heather - Houston, Texas|
"I really only scanned the articles but I got the gist. I think its funny though if you by the Wiccan Rede then by fighting and name calling your breaking the most basic rule. Harm ye none do what ye will. You hurt the other person by judging them you hurt yourself by bring negative karma to yourself and its like tic-tac-toe no one wins. Im a mom and the most basic way to teach your children is to model. If you forever tell them to clean their room and put things away but you yourself only really clean once a month your kids will not have any example. That do as I say not as I do thing DOES NOT work. If we want other groups to accept us we MUST accecpt. Its not an option to not accecpt. We have to teach by setting an example not just for other religion but for our religions and for our children. When theyre grown up maybe New Age will have a section of books in the bookstore that equals fiction. Maybe theyll have pagan as a religious option on forms. Theres a club in high school for Christian athletes now maybe theyll be one for pagans itd be nice. But do we really want them fighting over whos right and whos wrong We dont have that many examples to go by so we must become the examples. We believe in individuality and whatever works for you and makes you confortable you should do that. And you should accept that even your own children will have different ideas on how to practice. Just think whatever floats you boat. Even if you dont go by the Rede you can believe that. Just accecpt and yes it is that easy. Accecpt people for who and what they are you dont have to agree with them or even like them just accecpt them. Heather"
Date Posted: 4/11/99 Email: HeatherJDAC@Hotmail.com
|Wise Fox - flushing, Ohio|
"As a solitary who has been thinking about contacting others all this about witchwars has given me pause.I literally do not know any other witches. But its not surprising what is happening. However I dont think PagansWiccans whatever should try too be to civilized or mainstream. Look at the other religions that have public acceptance. On the other hand as a parent in a rural community I would love to not have to worry about the repercussions of my coming out of the broom closet. cant help it Im a libra"
Date Posted: 4/11/99 Email: dfoxweisseohio.net
|William - Richmond, Virginia|
"Ther are some things in this world that are born to us.A sence of right and wrong and a basic sence of HONOR.There must be a ballance in every thing in this world least none of you forget that is why you practice the Craft."
Date Posted: 4/21/99 Email: BBRANGER@AOL.COM
|Paleron - McLean, Virginia|
"Being one who is very new to even just the concept of pagan beliefs I have known about the Wicca for less than 4 days... nonetheless I have still learned a great deal in that short amount of time I thought that some might like to hear what an outsider has to say on the subject of Witch Wars. While I cannot pretend to understand the situation in full I thought it was interesting to note some apparant similarities between Witch Wars and that of so-called flame wars that I have seen going on over the internet often based on very stupid and jeuvenile things. And example of this that comes to mind that some people of the tech-assoiated relm argue over frequently is which platform is the better system Macs or IBMs... both sides try to argue which is better... providing various technical examples. Then generally they go on to criticize the character of who theyre aguring against ignoring the issue enterly. The thing that both sides somehow overlook interestingly is that there is no right answer. Neither side is quote-unquote correct. Instead the real problem is that people are trying to compare apples to oranges... Which computer is the right one depends only on what you are going to do with it. I have found the same applies to paganism. I dont believe there is any universal right portion of paganism. Instead the right paganism is what works for you specifically and there really is no reason to belittle another for not exactly agreeing with you. Ive found that in life its the differences between my friends that I most cherish rather than what makes us the same although that is important too... To prevent the risk of further rambling Im going to stop now and just leave you with these thoughts... PaleronBTW Thanks to anyone who ever posted anything to the Teen section of witchvox.. It has helped me more than anyone can know.. Im 16"
Date Posted: 4/21/99 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
|Earth Mother - Rural, Ontario|
"Along with my esteemed colleague Spiderwomon I run the Earth-Based Faiths Forum at MSN. With 3 Newsgroups and a 247 Chat Room we see a lot of Pagans old and new. We have had our fair share of Bitchcraft and seen regulars come and go as a result. It is inevitable in a time of unprecedented growth within the Pagan community and because of the diversities of our beliefs that these situations will occur. Most of the time it is healthy and constructive. The times it is not is when basic ethics are involved. I do not think it is unusual for any large group to have a small minority of selfish or power hungry individuals that rock the boat. If you consider other Religions it quickly becomes quite plain that the Pagan Community actually has far less problems than any of them which doesnt mean we should become complacent but that we should look positively on our ability to achieve as much peace and harmony as we do. I prefer to meditate on my role as a healer and elder in the community than spend too much time dwelling on politics and the Threefold Law will take care of those who seek to destroy...."
Date Posted: 5/1/99 Email: earthmother62bigfoot.com
|Michael Anthony - Morris Park, New York|
"Battles May Be Won But The War Will Be Lost If Unity Is None By Michael Anthony
My tradition is better than yours is. My tradition is stronger than yours. My tradition is the best because my mothers mother was. This is what I have encountered in the 10 years that I have studied the craft. Everyone can not agree on everything that I believe is a given and as spiritual persons who seek knowledge it is logical that questions about different traditions arise. But what I see happening in the pagan world is the more we become mainstream the more we become somewhat accepted and or tolerated the more we battle among ourselves. I have been witness to heated arguments and mud slinging all because one traditionalist cant or wont see what anothers way may offer or because this author is better than that one because he or she doesnt give sacred secrets away. Is this what we truly want to show the world Do pagans want to start acting like Christian theologists that are constantly in debate of which way is the right way to live a Christian life and in the process confuse the masses I do not think so. This Witchier than thou attitude must stop or we will lose the war. And I do not pretend to have all the answers however no good can come of battling amongst ourselves. I was told once that I could not speak to a high priestess in a particular coven unless I was spoken to. I sat around for two weeks trying to learn more because as a new comer I had many questions but alas I had not been spoken to so I could not ask them. I started thinking the high priestess might be Queen Victoria reincarnated. We do not speak until we are spoken to which Queen Victoria was famous for saying. The point is I left feeling badly and more confused than when I started going to these coven meetings. We must ask ourselves this question If those who came before us so long ago were here today would they approve of these wars. Would they who had to hide and be cloaked in secrecy to even practice their religion for fear of death look upon these wars as this generations ignorance of the past. Would there be sadness among them because for so long they just wanted to freely practice their tradition with one another and could not because of the ignorance. Tis a sad day when witches who once could not even acknowledge each other now publicly disparage each other. Good and bad surround us it is part of life and if there are those who portray Witches in a negative or slanderous way and also claim themselves Witches then we must speak out for we must not in that case allow lies to gain a life of their own. But that is the exception.We should remember those before us we should remember their trials and tribulations and we should honor them by showing our UNITY as one. Perhaps we should cast a back in time spell a la Samantha and live a few hours in 1720 or 1820 or 1920 for that matter and see for ourselves how great we really have it compared to those gone so long ago. Something to think about.May The Stars Guide Us Always....."
Date Posted: 5/9/99 Email: MagkWithIn@aol.com
Location: Various, Florida
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