Your browser does not support script
TWV Presents...

Articles/Essays From Pagans

[Show all]

Views: 16,506,188

April 20th. 2014 ...

Six Rules for Safer Pagan Sex: A Guide

Safety: Let's Shift Our Focus

A Pagan Perspective on Easter

Morality and Controversy in the Craft

The Oak King's Domain (A Story)

The Star Child

April 13th. 2014 ...

Magick and Consequences: My Experience with Sigils

Being a Worrisome Witch

Don't Talk Yourself Out of Trying Something New!

What to Do When the Spell/Ritual Flops

April 6th. 2014 ...

The Elements and the Quarters

Dark Moon Scry: Aries 2014

How the Wheel of the Year Works “Down Under”

13 Keys: The Understanding of Binah

March 30th. 2014 ...

Manifesting the Dream: On Religious Organizations, Pagan Abbeys and our Order

True Meaning of Community

Thoughts on Unverified Personal Gnosis

My Beautiful Grove- A Matter Of Perspective

March 23rd. 2014 ...

Spirituality and Social Change

The First Step to Anywhere!

March 16th. 2014 ...

From Christian to Pagan (Part I)

Nature And The Celtic Tree Calendar

The Teeth in the Darkness

March 9th. 2014 ...

Healing the Witch Within

Incarcerated Witches

Discovering Wicca as a Young Child

March Pisces Energy: Pre-natal Memories and Standing Upright

March 2nd. 2014 ...

Lessons of Ostara: Six Ways to Move Forward

The Wiccan Priest - The Misunderstood Role

Which is Which? Am I a Warlock or a Witch?

The Secret Teaching: Selected Aspects

February 23rd. 2014 ...

Wicca or Traditional Witchcraft: Some Differences

Everything is Not Under Your Control: Making Sense of the Senseless

The Wonders and Gifts of Paganism and Community

What Makes Us What We Are

February 16th. 2014 ...

The Stones of Fear: Anxiety Relief

Death, Grief, and Psychopomp Work in Shamanic Healing

Spiritual Traveler: Form To Essence

Alternative Medicine – What Is It?

February 9th. 2014 ...

Words of Power!

The Allure of Glamour in the Apocolypse

Lunar Insight Planetary Preponderances: Year of the Horse, Imbolc and Mercury Grazings

February 2nd. 2014 ...

The Magick of Jewelry and Metals

Building a Magick Mirror

The Golden Bough: a Study Guide (Part 2)

January 26th. 2014 ...

Love of Self: The Hardest Thing To Do

The Golden Bough as a Seminal Work in the Neo Pagan Movement (Part 1)

13 Keys: The Mercy of Chesed

Lightworking In The Screen Age: Staying Connected

January 19th. 2014 ...

Open Letter to the Goddess

A Southern Girl's Guide to Hospitality

Social Conventions and the Pagan World

Reclaiming Independence

January 12th. 2014 ...

Never Once Was There a An Athame Near My Chalice: My Very Sheltered Occultist Upbringing

One Wiccan's Journey Through Depression

January 5th. 2014 ...

Religion vs Practice: Defining Witchcraft in a Modern Age

Traditional Apprenticeships: Training in the Modern Pagan Abbey

2014's Magickal Magnificent Manifestations!

Lunar Insight Moon Musings, Planetary Preponderances: Wise and Wild

December 29th. 2013 ...

My Top Ten Favorite Cauldrons (Part 3)

13 Keys: The Might of Geburah

Beyond The Season of Greed

December 22nd. 2013 ...

My Top Ten Favorite Cauldrons (Part 2)

December 15th. 2013 ...

The Hex Murder of 1928

My Top Ten Favorite Cauldrons (Part 1)

Lady of the Forest Mist (A Story of the Woods)

Lunar Insight Moon Musings: Hunting, Fires and Parting Shots

December 8th. 2013 ...

Help and Thoughts for Pagans New to the Journey

Using Your Wand in Reverse

The Cry of the Soul

Leaving a Group - Part 2: Leaving, Healing and Moving Forward

December 1st. 2013 ...

The Tarot as a Tool for Raising Consciousness

A Pragmatic Look at Neo Paganism

Leaving a Pagan Group – Part 1: To Leave or to Stay?

November 24th. 2013 ...

The Groovy Aquarian Christ: Jesus From a Pagan Perspective

The Pagan and the Papacy

November 17th. 2013 ...

Which Witch? Philosophical and Psychological Roots of Wicca

For Love of the God

A Threat to Religious Liberties?

November 10th. 2013 ...

Where did Aleister Crowley’s Influence on Wicca Go?

NOTE: For a complete list of articles related to this chapter... Visit the Main Index FOR this section.

Article Specs

Article ID: 14687

VoxAcct: 408584

Section: words

Age Group: Adult

Days Up: 998

Times Read: 2,568

RSS Views: 17,712
The Chicken or the Egg

Author: BellaDonna Saberhagen
Posted: July 31st. 2011
Times Viewed: 2,568

Who created whom? Did the gods create man or did man create the gods? This question was posed on a podcast. The host invited responses to his opinion, however, I’m new to listening to podcasts and was listening to back episodes that are over a year old. He eloquently stated that humans couldn’t have created beings that are strong enough to have created the universe. I don’t disagree with that; what I do disagree with is that gods automatically must have the power to do so (or have that power at all) . The host is a soft-polytheist. He even quoted the axiom “All gods are one God and all goddesses are one Goddess” in support of his argument. If you’ve read my previous article, you will know that I’m a hard-polytheist. While numerous mythologies have creation myths, I don’t choose to subscribe to any of them. I take them as attempts by ancient peoples to understand the origins of the universe, the world and themselves.

Science has come a long way, and if you accept the sound scientific theories regarding the origins of the universe and man, then the need for a Creator/Creatrix god or goddess is unnecessary. This removes the problem the podcast host had of “humans unable to create the creator.” There is no creator; before the universe was there was only energy. This energy was just energy; it had no consciousness, no will. The purpose of this article is not to quantify this energy, but let’s suffice to say that it is the energy that connects us all.

What if this energy is the same energy that we use in magick to manifest change? If it is, then humans are obviously able to program it and form it according to their will. Many Witches and Magicians create Artificial Elementals to go forth and do work the Witch or Magician cannot do themselves. This is directly counter to the idea that humans cannot create beings from this energy (and the idea the podcast host had of humans not being able to create things greater than themselves) . Now, typically, Artificial Elementals are (and should be) given an expiration date; but that does not mean that all things created through the mental focus of man have one; and this is where the creation of gods comes in.

I’m not one to believe that everything exists on some part of the astral plane. I don’t think Hogwarts is there, just waiting to be explored. I know there are some Pagans (and New Agers) who believe this, but I have to hope that these are few and far between. I can’t really say what quality or quantity of belief is required to make a thought-form a god or goddess. I do believe it’s more difficult than just two or three people fervently believing in the god/desshood of some entity; and I do believe it is a higher quality of adoration than millions of fans squeeing over Edward Cullen. However, just because I can’t put forth an exact number of believers or define the level of fervor of belief does not mean that it is untrue. It simply means that it is currently immeasurable by science, as most spiritual things are. Could you accurately measure the qualities of the Creator/Creatrix deity you believe in (in scientific terms) ? No. The theory that man created the gods is still a matter of faith, a more scientific view of it, but more a matter of faith nonetheless.

Another argument put forth is that a Creator/Creatrix must be infallible, and man cannot create anything infallible. Again, remove the concept of a divine creator and look at the myths again. The gods ARE fallible. Zeus cheats on his wife more than Tiger Woods, Hera’s jealousy knows no bounds, Hephaestus was born deformed, Hod was born blind (and killed his brother Baldr) , Lir married a woman who turned his children into swans for 900 years out of jealously, and Frigga forgot to get the promise of mistletoe not to harm Baldr (again, leading to his death) . Lust, jealousy, deformity, handicaps, forgetfulness: these gods have very human characteristics, but on a larger, more epic scale. Humans can’t create infallible gods not only because “they just can’t”, but because fallible humans can’t relate to something infallible and vice versa. How many problems in Biblical myths occur because the Judeo-Christian God cannot relate to the fallibility of his creation (…Not that he is really infallible; after all, why would an infallible god have a fallible creation) ? This is why the construct of a “savior” was necessary.

You want further evidence that man creates gods? I’ll give you two examples commonly worshipped as “aspects” of “The Goddess” (or as goddesses in their own right) by modern Pagans: Cerridwen and Blodeuwedd.

Many Wiccans, Cerridwen see as a purely Celtic edition of the “ancient” (Don’t get mad here; the ancientness of Wicca has long been disproven) Wiccan Triple Goddess (See Janet and Stewart Fararr’s A Witches’ Bible and Raven Grimassi’s TheWiccan Mysteries) with strong connections to witchcraft due to her having the Cauldron of Inspiration and the ability to shapeshift. I will agree that this spirit had something to do with magick and inspiration, but there is no historical record or anthropological evidence showing she was worshipped as a goddess (as far as I know) . However, she is now counted among the ranks of the Welsh Celtic pantheon by most modern Pagans (but not Celtic Reconstructionists, they only worship those that were historically given that honor) and given due worship as such.

Here, I can understand why. Cerridwen is very powerful (superhuman) , and while there are no records of her worship, it may be that the Romans didn’t take a fancy to her (This is how we tend to tell the heroes and fairies from the gods in Celtic mythology, the Romans equating local gods with their own) and the Celts did not write her down as such (They wrote down very little, so this is understandable) . Her cult may have been isolated, or maybe she was just being formed as a goddess then and has been solidified as such in more modern times.

Even more puzzling is Blodeuwedd, another Welsh mythological figure modernly called a goddess by some (She is insinuated to be the patron goddess of Wales in Catrin James’ Celtic Faery Shamanism) . She is frequently listed on “god/dess lists” found in so many Pagan books (The problem with these lists is that they give the reader spheres of influence of specific deities without any real mythological information to back up such claims) , but her myth leaves something to be desired when it comes to seeing her as such.

An example of how she is seen by some modern practitioners is taken from The Modern Day Druidess by Cassandra Eason: “The Welsh maiden Lunar Goddess, created from flowers, Goddess of early summer and Blossoming Earth.” The only thing taken directly from her myth is “created from flowers”, and one has to ask, how can a being created from flowers be a Goddess of the Moon? For those of you unfamiliar with her actual myth, I’ll sum it up for you: Lleu Llaw Gyffes’ mother cursed him that he may not have a wife of human or fairy stock, so some druids got together and created Blodeuwedd from flowers to be his wife. She was unfaithful to him and conspired with her lover to murder him. The plot failed. For her crimes, she was changed into an owl for all eternity. Doesn’t sound like the makings of a goddess, does it? However, I think she was latched onto as a feminist role-model or archetype since she was not content with the lot she was given and did something about it. I can’t say I agree personally with her modern goddesshood, but I can see how some might do so for the aforementioned reason.

These two examples show how mythological figures can become gods through the belief and personal gnosis of modern Pagans.* Am I saying that Edward Cullen is likely to become a god anytime soon? No, that is unlikely because while his sparkle-loving fan base may WANT him to be real, they don’t BELIEVE he is real. Even if they could believe him into existence, they don’t see him as a god, but as a vampire (Maybe as the hottest vampire to ever “live”, but still just a vampire –Personally, I think Spike from Buffy is hotter, but to each their own) . That makes all the difference.

* In a future article, I will discuss how this theory specifically affects the soft-polytheist versus the hard-polytheist argument.

A Witches' Bible by Janet and Stewart Farrar.
The Wiccan Mysteries by Raven Grimassi.
The Modern Day Druidess by Cassandra Eason.
The Mabinogion


BellaDonna Saberhagen

Location: Sunbury, Pennsylvania


Author's Profile: To learn more about BellaDonna Saberhagen - Click HERE

Other Articles: BellaDonna Saberhagen has posted 23 additional articles- View them?

Other Listings: To view ALL of my listings: Click HERE

Email BellaDonna Saberhagen... (Yes! I have opted to receive invites to Pagan events, groups, and commercial sales)

To send a private message to BellaDonna Saberhagen ...

Pagan Essays

Pagan Web
8,000 Links

Pagan Groups
Local Covens etc.

80,000 Profiles

Home - TWV Logos - Email US - Privacy
News and Information

Chapters: Pagan/Heathen Basics - Pagan BOOKS - Traditions, Paths & Religions - Popular Pagan Holidays - TV & Movies - Cats of the Craft - Festival Reviews - Festival Tips - White Pages (Resources) - Issues/Concerns - West Memphis 3 - Witch Hunts - Pagan Protection Tips - Healing Planet Earth

Your Voices: Adult Essays - Young Pagan Essays - Pagan Perspectives (On Hold) - WitchWars: Fire in the Craft - Gay Pagan - Pagan Parenting - Military - Pagan Passages

Pagan Music: Pagan Musicians - Bardic Circle at WitchVox - Free Music from TWV

Vox Central: About TWV - Wren: Words, Wrants and Wramblings - Guest Rants - Past Surveys - A Quest for Unity

Weekly Updates: Click HERE for an index of our weekly updates for the past 6 years

W.O.T.W. - World-Wide Networking

Your Town: A Link to YOUR Area Page (The largest listing of Witches, Pagans, Heathens and Wiccans on the Planet)

VoxLinks: The Pagan Web: 8,000 Listings

Your Witchvox Account: Log in Now - Create New Account - Request New Password - Log in Problems

Personal Listings: Pagan Clergy in Your Town - Adult Pagans - Young Pagans - Military Pagans

Events: Circles, Gatherings, Workshops & Festivals

Covens/Groups/Orgs: Local Groups Main Page

Other LOCAL Resources: Local Shops - Regional Sites - Local Notices - Global/National Notices - Local Skills & Services - Local Egroups - Political Freedom Fighters

Pagan Shopping: Online Shops Index - Original Crafters Sites - Auction Sites - Pagan Wholesalers - Pagan Local Shops

Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2014 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.

Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.

Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren’s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches’ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.

Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.

Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.
Witches, Pagans
of The World

Search Articles

 Current Topic
 Editorial Guide

NOTE: The essay on this page contains the writings and opinions of the listed author(s) and is not necessarily shared or endorsed by the Witches' Voice inc.

The Witches' Voice does not verify or attest to the historical accuracy contained in the content of this essay.

All WitchVox essays contain a valid email address, feel free to send your comments, thoughts or concerns directly to the listed author(s).