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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 11592
[Religious]
Date Posted:
11/23/2004
9:13:52 am EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 14,150
RSS: 2,924
Comments: 12
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Non-Traditional Baptisms Ruled Invalid
Author: Elizabeth Allen Source: Brisbane Courier Mail (AU)
Title: NON-TRADITIONAL BAPTISMS RULED INVALID
  The Catholic Archbishop of Brisbane, John Bathersby, yesterday declared that children baptised at a South Brisbane church using non-traditional words would have to be re-baptised.
Hundreds of children have been baptised at St Mary's Church in the past decade using the words "creator, liberator and sustainer" instead of "father, son and holy spirit".
"The canonical advice I received is that the baptisms are invalid and that re-baptism would be needed," Archbishop Bathersby said. "The words of scripture can't be adjusted to suit our own taste. The next thing we'll be getting rid of Christ himself."
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Community Thoughts: There are 12 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Take What You Want, Ignore The Rest | Nov 24th. at 10:57:42 am EST |
by CH (Illinois) - wc_xemail
I have a problem with this. Were Any of the Catholics really baptized to begin with? Seriously, according to the definition of baptism- being submerged... i don't recall ever seeing that happen in all my years growing up within the Catholic church. "Sprinkling" is all i've ever known them to do. Now they want to get nit-picky over wording. Seems to me, as a whole they are guilty of not following the scripture in more than one area. I guess Christian religion has come down to "take what you want and ignore the rest of the gospel".
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| Hmmmmm | Nov 24th. at 7:47:37 am EST |
by Jera Runesinger (Wales) - wc_xemail
Odd really.... I was told (back in the days when i used to go to church) that Baptism was an "Outward and Visible" sign of an "Inward and Spiritual" event. Seems to me they are putting the emphasis on the wrong bit of that description.
I say dood on the priest of the Church for standing up for what he thinks is right. his congregation is behind him and i hope it goes well and that they DONT get the children "re Baptised".
Regardless of the wording used i think the Church should be proud that these people are still going to the church they had their children baptised in as opposed to the common practice (here in the UK anyway) of taking your kids to church, getting them baptised and never going back again.
Just My thoughts.
Jera
x
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| RCC | Nov 23rd. at 11:00:18 pm EST |
by Lorelei (Cumming GA) - wc_xemail
Having been raised RCC and followed it's teachings for most of my life ( 25 years of 36) , their church has it's right to self-rule. Being a member means they agree to the tenants of that church. More power to them. In my opinion, it's whatever gets you thru the day & ready for the next challange that lies ahead that's important. The rest is splitting hairs as they say.
It was because I questioned everything - evolution, Tarot ( I used the cards at 18 years and on) , sex, etc. that was the reason I left. But, I would never try and say they were wrong for their Faith & Beliefs, it's just as judgemental as anything said to me in my life.
RCC holds the trinity in very high regard and as we know there * IS * power in words. It's so closely tied into belief and making/willing that ideal by prayer, chant or thought into being.
To the previous poster, thanks for posting the link, I had never read any of that! Goes to show, you get out of your faith/religion what you put in - no matter what religion or faith you follow!
Still Happy & Pagan,
BB,
Lore
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| The Priest Doesn't Have The Authority ... | Nov 23rd. at 10:29:40 pm EST |
by Lughaidh (Fort Worth, TX) - wc_xemail
... to change the formula used by the Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) , the official depository of the faith of the Church, says in paragraph 1223, "All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan.After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."" The scripture Jesus refers to there can be found in Matthew 28:19-20 and Mark 16:15-16. Paragraph 1278 says, "The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
If a person chooses to be baptized into the faith of the Roman Catholic Church, the Trinitarian formula must be followed. If a person doesn't care for it, then fine; don't be baptized into the RCC. The point here is that the Church reserves to itself how its initiates are to be baptized and by what formula. If the words themselves weren't that important, then why didn't the priests use them as they are clearly lined out in the Rite of Baptism?
If a person chooses to ignore the guidance, teaching, and authority of the RCC they are always welcome to go elsewhere. Many have, and many still do. But if you submit yourself to a dogmatic doctrine, it is my opinion you should learn it and follow it. Find More info -- HERE
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| If They Would Read Their Own Scripture.... | Nov 23rd. at 4:32:16 pm EST |
by Aidan Odinson (Collingdale, PA) - wc_xemail - Web
It seems to me that the heirarchy is taking a dangerous stand.
In their own Bible, there is a story of Jesus' reaction when another person was casting out devils and people were accusing that person of doing it via their devil.
First, of course, he pointed out the scripture which is often-quoted about how a devil can't cast out devils because a house divided against itself cannot stand. But then he went and pointed out the other part of his lesson, the one that gets glossed-over: that the only sin which cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And I have not forgotten that, even though I am no longer a Christian.
Who am I to say that a particular rite is invalid? Who is anyone who is not a God or Goddess to say that a particular rite is invalid? I might say that something is incompatible with my path, but that's as far as I want to go.
Folks need to be careful when they claim that a rite - any rite - is invalid.
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| Dogma Over Faith | Nov 23rd. at 3:19:19 pm EST |
by Ashe (TX) - wc_xemail
Why do Christians need faith when they have dogma?
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| So.. | Nov 23rd. at 1:33:33 pm EST |
by Dy (st paul) - wc_xemail
Bear with me a moment... If you were baptized at this 'infidel' church, believed your baptism was fine, died, got to heaven - what would happen. Would a representative of the church be there to say no? Would god care if the words were a little different, even though your family, you, your spiritual leader believed with all their hearts they did the right thing?
Is this not ridiculous?
Serious question, though - will people's names be taken off a list somewhere? Who keeps track of this other than you and your family?
I guess other than for families of those who have died, I don't get it. Don't these folks believe that god knows what's in their hearts?
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| Religion? Or Politics? | Nov 23rd. at 1:20:08 pm EST |
by Forrister (Brisbane, Australia) - wc_xemail
This is just the latest in the ongoing series of disputes between this local Catholic Church and the current Archbishop. This one worries me because it affects hundreds of children baptised there over the years. If all these baptisms are invalid, then does this mean those kids who everyone thought were baptised and have died were really unbaptised and going to hell? And what about the distress all the families must be feeling now?
What disgusts me is that someone would use the distress of innocent people to score points in what has become obvious is internal church politics. Oh, and for you self-righteous folk out there who think that this sort of thing doesn't happen in pagan circles . . . . it does, and its just as wrong.
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| I Suppose | Nov 23rd. at 10:36:46 am EST |
by Rowan Foxfyre (Indianapolis, In) - wc_xemail
I suppose it all Boils down to exactly which Denomination of Christianity is the "correct" one eh? The way My Grandmothers Church taught was Full Body Immersion being the only "True" way...........
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| Oy | Nov 23rd. at 10:14:32 am EST |
by Bri (michigan) - wc_xemail
"The words of scripture can't be adjusted to suit our own taste..."
History anyone? Constantine? It been happening althrough the life of the bible...
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| No Title | Nov 23rd. at 10:05:47 am EST |
by Eri M. (Pittsburgh, PA) - wc_xemail - Web
I was just thinking "They better not be talking Lutherans..." I was baptized in the Lutheran church when I was a baby. I love my church to pieces (even if I don't think the same as them) . My mom, dad, brother, sister, brother in law, and my widdle neice is baptized there, and to declare them all invalid would send me through the roof.
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| Yup... | Nov 23rd. at 9:52:56 am EST |
by Ani (WV) - wc_xemail
...because, as every good Christian knows, what's on someone's lips is far more important than what's in their hearts, and semantics matter infinitely more than love and honor.
Yup. That's why that whole "Messiah" thing happened.
Yup. I'm being sarcastic.
Be blessed.
--Ani
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