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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 11438
[Health]
Date Posted:
11/4/2004
6:18:00 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 15,972
RSS: 909
Comments: 13
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One Dead, Another In Hospital After Sweat Lodge Ritual
Author: New Zealand Herald Source: New Zealand Herald
Title: ONE DEAD, ANOTHER IN HOSPITAL AFTER SWEAT LODGE RITUAL
  A purification ritual borrowed from Native Americans has left a 37-year-old Victorian man dead and another man, 30, in hospital at Port Augusta, South Australia.
Both are believed to have suffered severe dehydration after taking part in a sweat lodge ritual in which participants inside a teepee-like structure pour water over hot rocks, lifting the temperature to up to 60C.
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Community Thoughts: There are 13 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Oops. | Nov 5th. at 10:38:43 am EST |
by C. McKeown (Lafayette, LA) - wc_xemail
I didn't realize I could not refer to another poster by name. The link I mentioned is the one under the comment entitled "Another Reason, " and by "WTG" I meant to congratulate that poster for putting up the link, which I had been about to add myself.
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| Cultural Misappropriation... | Nov 5th. at 8:26:35 am EST |
by Tyrsson (Texas) - wc_xemail
...is not only wrong--it's dangerous!
Someone earlier emphasized news coverage that the individual running this "sweat" was highly qualified. Clearly, this wasn't the case as the disasterous results so sadly show. :- (
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| WTG !!! | Nov 5th. at 7:10:47 am EST |
by C. McKeown (Lafayette, LA) - wc_xemail
People, please read the link provided. And think about it. Whether you like it or not, this declaration was written by the people for whom the inipi ceremony is a sacred tradition.
No matter how cool we think it is, we do not have the right to perform it.
Imagine how annoyed you may have been at those who misunderstand your own tradition. Maybe you're a Wiccan and you're sick of young people demanding spells to change their eye color, or people telling you you worship Satan. Remember how hurtful that feels, and how angry it makes you?
Now imagine these same people slaughtered your ancestors, took away your land, language and culture, and stole your children. Imagine a few of you have just managed to reclaim a few of these things, that your old sacred ways are at last gathering strength again because a few of the old people remember them and a few of the young people are finally interested. And now imagine the people who spat on it earlier want your religion for themselves because for the last 30 years or so it's been one of many "flavors of the month."
Wouldn't you too respond with a resounding, "This is mine, you can't have it"?
The Creator gave different people different ways for good reasons. These aren't the first fake-sweatlodge deaths, and they won't be the last. There are many good Pagan traditions to choose from that are not stolen. They are just as effective in connecting people with the spirits of the land.
Think about it. If you're up to this kind of wannabe-Indian foolishness and don't become ashamed of yourself, well, think some more.
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| From A Medical Perspective.... | Nov 5th. at 6:06:11 am EST |
by Chen (NZ) - wc_xemail
And before we end up descending and start digging ourselves into very unscientific territory.
The above alternative therapy method has nothing really mystical or so strange about it ( though everything is magical, even taking a pill is magical ) . From a medical perspective we see patients engaging in this activity regularly, which in more popular language is a concept called sauna, and even more popular language is called hot bath or shower.
Basically most people like engaging in this activity because certain level of wet heat can cause the human body to secrete short burst of endorphines. Endorphines are basically opiate molecules which has the same effect as taking morphine....it relaxes you, it relieves you off your pain etc..
Engaging in these kind of activities for a healthy individual with normal hydration status for short periods of time ( ie:- less than half an hour ) is relatively harmless and can have analgesic effects. HOWEVER, many people take this one step further.....many assumes that because the body feels comfortable over half an hour, it must feel comfortable over four hours, five hours, even six hours.
Some people in fact even come up with strange theories such as toxins being sweated out. This concept by the way is totally and wholly debunked by modern science.
Anyway, back to the topic. What happens after one to two hours even up to three hours under such situation especially if the people are not drinking water is that they start getting dehydrated. Given that they continously sweat to get rid of the excess heat their body are receiving there is little in the way of choice for their body but to sweat. Either sweat or risk boiling your core to 42 degree celcius.
When you dehydrate, a few things happen. First, your blood becomes thicker as your ECF volume declines. This means for your heart you have to beat faster to keep the same blood pressure. As for your veins, especially in your legs, if you are not moving them your blood starts pooling along with becoming thicker. This predisposes it to developing clots and subsequently DVT. This process can be accelerated were you to have already compromised valves, varicose veins or have a hypercoagulable disorder such as Protein C Protein S deficiency.
Along with your blood becoming thicker, your body starts hanging on to sodium. Once you do this long enough your other electrolytes such as potassium etc.. starts having a hard time regulating. Given that every electrolyte in your body is linked you start having trouble with your pH mantainence etc..
After a certain point you start feeling whoozy, uncomfortable, you will feel thirsty. If you continue to ignore your bodies call you are needless to say in big trouble.
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| Another Reason | Nov 5th. at 2:22:19 am EST |
by Brian (Mission Viejo, CA) - wc_xemail
why culture-specific religious practices should not be appropriated by those who fail to understand them. Find More info -- HERE
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| Re: Inipi Ceremony (Sweat Lodge) | Nov 5th. at 2:20:02 am EST |
by Open Heart Of The Eagle (Melbourne, Australia) - wc_xemail
I agree with the comments made by the sisters & brothers who participate in the Inipi ceremony.I have participated in Inipi ceremonies on & off for the last 10 yrs though I'm not a "Pourer", the ceremony should be carried out by Pipe-Carriers who have been trained by Native American Elders (Medicine Persons of either gender) as they are the recipient of this most Sacred Ceremony.
I've been taught that the Inipi, once created becomes Sacred Space & the energy comes alive through the manifestation of the Creator, Great Mystery, the GrandMothers & GrandFathers (Ancestors who reside in the Spirit World) .
Intention & Respect plays a big part in the ceremony, as some of the sisters & brothers have stipulated in their comments it's not about "stamina" or "ego" for that matter, but listening to your body as it is the best thermometer to let you know when you have had enough "Medicine".
A "Brother" has crossed to the Ancestral Home (the SummerLands) and another "Brother" is being cared for in Hospital, let us take some time & offer prayers.
Aho Mitake Oyasin
To All My Relations
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| Sweatlodge | Nov 5th. at 1:16:52 am EST |
by Nateseia (Canada) - wc_xemail
The wonderful thing about reading this site, whether the comments or queries, it always brings about a sense of having learned a little more.
I have participated in a few sweats, led by those of the First Nations people, here in Canada. The attention to detail of the ritual, and care of particpants showed nothing less, then the practice of ritual responsibility. ...a practice that we should all be aware of, not only to ourselves and the Gods, but the physical , and I might add, the emotional well being of those in circle
While I don't know the circumstance surrounding the events or participants of this terrible situation, as a nurse, I know first hand the effects of dehydration...a condition that creeps up so easly on the unsuspecting, especially if the particpant has existing medical conditions that affect the hydration of the body.
My prayers go out to the family.
Blessings
Nateseia
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| An Ps... | Nov 4th. at 10:39:53 pm EST |
by Rai (Queensland, Australia) - wc_xemail
Me again,
Just been reading the other comments.
The Australian media's been stressing that the victim was well practiced in the procedure. The media also stressed that those in the "sweat lodge" had been fasting before hand & was only taking water & "Gator-aide" (a sports drink) . I found interesting was the fact "they" pointed out that the "internet add" stressed dehydration being a problem
I think the only reason the Oz media took it up was that the Property (Oz equilivant to a "Ranch") owners did not know anything about the campers or ritual until there was a "knock on the door" asking for help.
So this could have been a tragic accident, miscalculation _OR_ as I previously suggested some unforeseen hiccup because of the Oz location.
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| Latest... | Nov 4th. at 9:46:05 pm EST |
by Rai (Queensland Australia) - wc_xemail
MM All,
Interesting this version came from NZ & not Oz.
Just thought I'd add a "latest update". Last theory was that the problem was chemicals coming from the bore water used on the stones. Another tragic lesson that the Australia landscape is dangerous in many ways.
& an interesting PS - _SO FAR_ there's not been any notable anti "New Age" backlash from the media. They are still raving on about a National Radio "Mouth" slagging off against the "Queer Guy" celeb at the Melbourne Cup...
R
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| Hmm... | Nov 4th. at 9:21:48 pm EST |
by X Pagan Tearz X (Lawson, MO) - wc_xemail
Being native american things such as that are common to me...but not the dying and dehydration.....we understand that sometimes sweats aren't for everyone and that it takes lots of experiance or knowledge on the part of the pourers to keep from injouring someone....considering i've been around this type of stuff my whole life...I agree it deserves a "Darwin Award" because that was just tragic fate and dumb luck....
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| Sweats Are Not Saunas | Nov 4th. at 8:51:27 pm EST |
by David Aquarius (Renton, WA USA) - wc_xemail
As a participant in dozens of sweats, first thing I must ask is: Was there a qualified pourer on site or was it someone who fancied themselves a pourer?
Pouring is not just dumping water onto the rocks, it involves directing the energy and the timing of the session or round so that the lodge can bring about healing they are looking for.
NO sweat should be attempted unless at least one person is qualified to pour. Period. End of Story.
I've been in sweats that lasted 3 hours and some that lasted 40 min. It all depends on the stone people and how they direct the ceremony.
Another point of order: A sweat lodge is not a place to prove your stamina. If the stone people tell you to leave the lodge, you go. They know when you've had enough, to ignore them is to court disaster.
This news is sad. Sad because those in charge didn't take the time to do it the right way. I assume they read about it on the web or saw a movie, regardless.
Ignorance kills.
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| Darwin Award | Nov 4th. at 7:28:14 pm EST |
by Willow (In front of my computer) - wc_xemail
Sorry to sound mean, but people who only read about these things in books or hear about these things from a friend of a friend of a friend are so clueless about what to expect and how to make a proper sweatlodge. We had some people here in California die because they completely sealed off the thing with plastic and they suffocated. Honestly. *rolls eyes*
If I didn't know what I was doing, I wouldn't attempt it, just as I wouldn't wander out into the desert and take peyote "because it sounds like a neat experience" or do a fasting wilderness vision quest for days. Hello? These people obviously had zero clue what they were doing.
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| If They Were Careful About It | Nov 4th. at 6:57:15 pm EST |
by Artemis (Missouri) - wc_xemail
We build a sweat lodge every once in a while by throwing tarps over a low structure of sticks stuck in the ground. However, aside from the creek water we pour on the hot rocks in the middle, we also bring drinking water, and we make sure it gets passed around periodically. No one that I know has ever been injured or severely dehydrated because of our sweat lodge. People just need to be more careful.
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