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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20268
[Civil]
Date Posted:
12/14/2008
9:56:56 am EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,760
RSS: 16,012
Comments: 11
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Religion In Schools To Go God-Free
Author: Michael Bachelard Source: The Age (AU)
Title: RELIGION IN SCHOOLS TO GO GOD-FREE
Victorian state primary school students will soon have an alternative — religious education lessons taught by people who do not believe in God and say there is "no evidence of any supernatural power".
The Humanist Society of Victoria has developed a curriculum, which the State Government accreditation body says it intends to approve, to deliver 30-minute lessons each week of "humanist applied ethics" to primary pupils.
Accredited volunteers will be able to teach their philosophy in the class time designated for religious instruction. As with lessons delivered by faith groups, parents will be able to request that their children do not participate.
Victorian Humanist Society president Stephen Stuart said: "Atheistical parents will be pleased to hear that humanistic courses of ethics will soon be available in some state schools."
But the body that accredits Victoria's 3500 Christian religious instruction volunteers, Access Ministries, says humanism is not a religion and so should not be taught in religious education time.
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Community Thoughts: There are 11 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Great If | Dec 16th. at 11:14:03 am EST
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Madrona (Huntington, West Virginia) - Email Me
The headline to this news article is purposely misleading and shows a bias against humanists from the getgo. However I have to say that I like the idea of religions, as opposed to religion, being taught in schools. I know this is about Australia, but as an american I know we are one of the most ignorant nations when it comes to religious beliefs. I watched a video where a british news anchor asked random U.S. citizens what a mosque was. He also asked what religion buddhist monks practiced giving them the answer in the question. All he got was blank stares. That's sad. Children need to be taught at least the history and tennets of other religions and even nonreligions to have a broader understanding of the world. Religion often ties so much into culture. There's no reason this can't be incorporated into general social studies. As long as this is taught by credible people who are knowledgable but lack a conversion agenda it would be great.
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| Just Another Note To Sign | Dec 15th. at 8:30:56 pm EST
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Silkin (Werribee, Victoria) - Email Me
As a Parent in Victoria Australia I see it as just another note to sign to say my children are exempt from the class. Same as I have been doing for RE lessons that our school has since they started.
I would prefer to know the people who are teaching my kids about any belief system & what they are learning so I can discuss it with them if they have questions.
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| You Guys Must Get Very Different RE | Dec 15th. at 4:58:46 am EST
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Errapel (Lowestoft, England) - Email Me
When I was a kid we had brilliant RE classes. It wasn't religious instruction, it was simply teachng us about the different religions out there. So one week we'd be studying Islam and we'd learn about what Muslims believed, where they prayed and how they lived their religious lives. The next week we'd be studying the Sikhs, maybe having a prominent member of the local Sikh comunity come in and tell us all about what he believed. I learnt so much about the world through my RE class.
As to the actual topic of the article (the previous was simply a responce to the comments) I don't really know. I supose if you broaden the definition of religious education you can include Humanism.
I think my stance on RE is this: If it's teaching children what some people believe so that they can understand other people's religions great. If it's teachng children to believe and practise a certain religion then no, I don't agree with it.
I hope all that made sense.
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| Bad Idea | Dec 14th. at 7:16:00 pm EST
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Aritimi Morgana (RotterdamJct/Schdy/Scotia, New York) - Email Me
this is just a really bad idea. Far as I see things, religion has no place WHATSOEVER in school. Faith is personal, private and should be practiced at home. I can understand having pride in one's faith and wearing the religious symbol of one's choice around one's neck, but having it in school is just a bad idea. Teachers have better things to do than instruct their students in religious doctrine. Such as being able to read. If kids need religious education, they should go to Sunday school or whatever variations thereof.
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| Pluralism Vs. Faith-Based Majoritarianism | Dec 14th. at 6:55:48 pm EST
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karrie9 (Kenosha, Wisconsin) - Email Me - Web
That's the anchoring/major false dichotomy (dualism) from which monotheistic religious triumphalists operate, be they in Australia or the U.S.A. (notice the metapatterns) -- it's the one from which they appeal to tyranny of the majority, something potentially extremely tragic when it involves religion. [Web LINK] [Web LINK]
Also, although not as broad, "Humanism" is also an umbrella term. Check it out. [Web LINK] (Again, the ** whole ** of humanism is not aligned with atheism or scientism and doesn't necessarily support the underlying dualism. Again, the humanist-atheist vs. religion dichotomy is a false one.)
This article seems to suggest another false dichotomy -- that of religion vs. spirituality, something I brought up in response to another recent article on WV. [Web LINK] I started off my comment to this other article with:
"Framed within a false dilemma (either religion or spirituality) , this article doesn’t sufficiently differentiate orthodoxy (correct belief) from orthopraxy (correct practice) , dogma from tenets, tenets within orthodoxy vs. tenets within orthopraxy (some are definitely dogma, others not) , or the gamut of organized religions built on rigid hierarchy vs. those in which there is some fluid hierarchy that plays a lesser role (how Christianity was for some time after Christ’s death) ."
If they start exploring some of the above then the scope is truly getting widened enough, else the same old Pluralism vs. Faith-Based Religion frame of reality is used and abused, people's scope never broadened enough to sufficiently challenge it.
By the way, I thoroughly read the article that mentioned Jamaica Bay [Web LINK] and this one (notice I mentioned Australia in my last comment here) and most of my comments have been ** very** on the mark, when it comes to religion and social-political patterns.
That I grew up in New York state and didn't know that Jamaica Bay was in New York, oh well. That means I'm not perfect or a geography expert. It doesn't make me flakey an ignorant. I reject the 100% correct vs. flakey dichotomy -- it's just more dualism all too frequently not representative of any individual or community and it certainly doesn't put an eye on the scope or gist of things.
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| Not Directly Related To This Article, But... | Dec 14th. at 4:53:00 pm EST
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Keyra (Plano, Texas) - Email Me
The first comment brought the Constitution of the United States of America and the issue of separation of church and state to bear. While this is indeed the case in this country, the article in question is in regards to what is happening in Australia.
A few articles ago, there was an issue of mutilated animals and litter corresponding to religious ritual scattered across a beach in Jamaica Plains. Several of the comments wondered what a New York newspaper was doing commenting on what was happening in another country (Jamaica) . Yet Jamaica Plains is a city in New York.
This is becoming an increasing problem, and not just here on the Vox. People are skimming the article in question, then shooting from the hip with their comments. What this is doing, in turn, is making the Pagan community out to be a bunch of flakes (even more than the media paints us out to be around October through January) when other people read these comments on news web sites.
So, if for nothing more than to be certain that one has all of the facts straight, and also to perhaps bring to the forefront the fact that we, as Pagans, are concerned about what happens in our world, please read through the articles prior to commenting upon them.
And before you feel that I'm being judgmental, I'm not. I've been just as guilty as anyone else.
Thank you, and blessings!
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| Pluralistic Vs. Faith-Based | Dec 14th. at 2:00:32 pm EST
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karrie9 (Kenosha, Wisconsin) - Email Me - Web
First of all, Humanism does not have to be and often isn't separate from religion -- it doesn't have to be atheism based (it also doesn't have to get into scientism) . Some people take it there, but it doesn't have to be.
So much for those distinct lines people like to draw in the sand, some Humanists included.
Too bad, because the idea of virtues, ethics, and other great stuff being taught in non-proprietary ways sounds appealing. [Web LINK]
"If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism?"
Well, that's throwing in all "witchcraft" (nothing like being entirely too vague with what one doesn't understand/respect, heh) with a religion modeled on orthodoxy, albeit it be it in the oppositional view of it. It's okay to denigrate what one doesn't like or know about?
What was the point of religious education down under, supposedly?
"Ms Stokes said...Religious instruction in state schools should be Christian because 'basically we are a Christian nation', she said."
Bingo! Trimphalism. Crypto-theocracy creep. Tyranny of the majority.
Yet another expert is quoted as saying "...a greater realization that Australia's...a multi-faith society...expanded to include all kinds of spiritualities and associated world views, including atheist and humanist world views."
That sounds better but I get a feeling that they'll continue to refer to all systems as systems of belief, more fitting for orthodoxies (and those modeled in their oppositional image) than it is for orthopraxis and other paths, and, well, you know what they say -- if you don't challenge the definitions or frames of reality then such will dominate and create directional force (an arrow goes where it's pointed) .
Just my opinion, but if they present different religions and haven't yet burst certain reality bubbles regarding the basic types of religion, various dualism laden views/logic, and definitions of such words as "Deity," "Divine," or "Worship" then they haven't even really scratched the surface.
"...Access Ministries chief executive Evonne Paddison said...she did not think humanism fell under 'the relevant legislation to be classified as a faith-based religion in religious instruction in the way that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism' did."
...And I think she only threw in Buddhism and Hinduism with the big boy monotheistic orthodoxies because these are big enough (might/size makes right, which is odd, considering how small Christianity started out) . She still expects Christianity to remain top dog of the religion pile and doesn't want that upset.
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| Please To Explain | Dec 14th. at 12:28:27 pm EST
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Ananta Androscoggin (Greene, Maine) - Email Me
just what does the U.S. Constitution have to do with school curriculum in Australia?
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| Let Us Clarify... | Dec 14th. at 12:17:47 pm EST
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Lorca (Longview, Washington) - Email Me
that the course being taught by the humanist volunteers is most certainly NOT "religion". It includes religious history, as must any scholarly examination of the subject of "ethics", but there is a broad gulf between that and advancing a particular religion. I, for one, am pleased to see the atheist community stepping up and filling a void created by the polarizing effects of religious zealots insisting that their chosen brand of faith be including in school curricula.
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| Not Even Then. | Dec 14th. at 11:38:17 am EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Unless it is an elective course, all belief systems should take a back seat to school cirriculum.
Until a child gets out of high school and into college, such things should be be left out till then. Then it should be an elective and not integrated into regular classwork. By then the student should be able to make up his or her own mind about whether or not to be interested in the subject taught.
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| Parents Should Teach The Family Beliefs. | Dec 14th. at 10:36:50 am EST
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Gargoyle0134 (Palm Coast, Florida) - Email Me
Frankly, it is my belief that the seperation between church and state does prohibit all schools from teaching anything religious, accordiong to the US Constitution.
Something as sacred as the religious or spiritual beliefs of any one family should be taught only by the child's parents or the church/community they associate with. It is too intimate a subject to be taught the school system.
The schools are majorly stepping on the toes and rights of families when they overstep their bounds and teach religion. (Unless the parents know in advance and have specifically placed thier child in a religious school environment.) Religion belongs in the home and church. I feel the constitution and those that govern the constitution shuld FINE severly any person in a government public school that teaches religion in a public school. Public schools are government endorsed environments and subsidized by our taxes. Religions ideas and religious philosophy should not belong..and by law does NOT, in public schools.
Notice that the majority of schools would allow CHRISTIAN philosophy groups and course s in theri schools. How many would allow Wiccan , or for that matter, even Jewish, Bhuddist, Hinduist or Shintoist ideas to be taught here in the USA? (A few..but you could count them on one hand.)
Only the family, parents and those at church have the right to pass down the family's spiritual heritage and beliefs and the schools need to follow the seperation between church and state and stay out of family business, or be fined. If churches encourage this behaviour and do not wish longer to honor the seperation between church and state, then they can PAY TAXES on the buildings and land, like everyone else does.
..Just my opinion.
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