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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20307
[Legal]
Date Posted:
1/8/2009
6:19:47 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 2,591
RSS: 10,645
Comments: 10
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Fundamentalist Sect Leaders In Canada Charged With Polygamy
Author: AFP Source: Google
Title: FUNDAMENTALIST SECT LEADERS IN CANADA CHARGED WITH POLYGAMY
Prosecutors charged two leaders of a fundamentalist religious sect with polygamy in Canada's westernmost British Columbia province.
Winston Blackmore and James Marion Oler were each charged with "practicing polygamy," an offense under Canada's criminal code.
"Two charges have been laid, one count against each person," British Columbia Attorney General Wally Oppal told reporters at a news conference here.
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Community Thoughts: There are 10 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Ministers Of Spiritual Irreligion | Jan 11th. at 9:31:18 pm EST
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
I wonder if certain ordained companion animals, would be able to officiate, in a sniffing of bride and groom.
"Pennsylvania law empowers "clergy of any regularly established church or congregation" to perform marriages."
My elder brother was wedded before an ordained out of state uncle, who first had to clear with Connecticut Law but, what's a good standard for this?
"York County Judge Maria Musti Cook found that the Universal Life minister in the case before her held no regular meetings and had no place of worship."
This approaches on a reasonable razor.
"Thirty-six couples in the county decided to remarry, according to Reilly, who said her office had received inquiries about marriages involving such groups as Wiccans and the "Church of the Wineskins."
Bindings should be legitimate, as long as the Coven meets on a regular basis but, Church of Wineskins sounds like an assembly, who practice inebriations. It could also be a church, which places a new religion not in an old wineskin. Either way, the above sound rather more legitimate than they'd credit. "You mean that wedding in Tahiti stuck?" Yes, so would the one on Jewel of the Nile.
"The Philadelphia test case involves lawyers Peter Goldberger and Anna Durbin, who were married in 1976 by a Roman Catholic priest who then worked as a law clerk and had neither a church nor a congregation."
I'd expect that priest belonged to the local congregation of the Roman Catholic Church, even though his major ministry was Temporal.
"One lawyer thought we should just go and get remarried. ... But at some point, it came down to principle for us," said O'Neill, a UPS marketing manager. "Who's to say that one person's place of worship or beliefs is OK while another's is not? Certainly not someone on a county government level."
Well, let's look at some basic definitions...
Wedding, a solemnization of vows before a community, normally such solemnization for vows of Matrimony. Has Matrimony got something to do, with the treasury of Motherhood?
Religion, a Roman Legalism, describing the brotherhood of a Superstition, or Over Standing, to liberate a youth from the Ties Of Birth, or Racial Ob-Ligation, in favor of New Ties, or Re-Ligion.
Spiritualism, Belief in the Psyche, as distinct from this Must Believe Universe.
Minister, one who puts his hands to something, Some "Christians" believe that this refers to the lecturor, at the head of a steepled meeting hall, but Quakers would meditate on whether such Hypocrisy, or Acting, would be a legitimate ministry, and I wouldn't be surprised if they debated this.
Christian, this is a conflict of terms, meaning either, those who follow in a brotherhood of understanding the Overstanding Jesus, and who train amongst this brotherhood, by attendance unto the Cast-Outs and Shut-Ins, as well as attending to their brotherhood, figuratively, an Oak, or Church, or it could refer to those who worship an Overstanding Jesus, nephew and brother of the Overstanding Solomon Davidson, at the instigation of an actual Christian.
Quaker Liscenses make a bit of sense, since a clerk can handle the paperwork, attendant to the legal obligations of such vows, while the Bride and Groom should be free to solemnize their Matrimonial Vows in a way acceptable to the witnessing congregation.
It is of interest, to the County, that the T is crossed, rather than the Eyes.
If I were doing it, the Congregation would recognize the relationships between bride and groom, as they shifted through future incarnations. The relationship of Marriage is only 'til death doeth thou Dust, for a reason, but the relationship of Spirit is not so limited.
Arawn Graalrd
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| Awful Situation... | Jan 11th. at 1:22:42 pm EST
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AmazonKat (Edmonton, Alberta) - Email Me
These men have done terrible things and abhorrent that these girls are forced into these marriages. A 14-year old shouldn't be able to enter into a marriage (and her parents shouldn't be able to give their consent to such a marriage) .
That said, I'm also disturbed that Canada legally mandates monogamy for all. The article mentioned that Section 293 of the Criminal Code is a Victorian relic and was bound to be challenged soon. It should be, but I'd hoped that this sect would not have been the ones leading the charge.
Under the very same rules, my two, consenting, fully aware partners and I could be looking at up to 5 years in prison for our relationship. A relationship devoid of brainwashing, not based on religious fundamentalism and certainly not involving children.
I wonder if a different law could be passed to protect these girls?
In case you're interested in checking it out, go to the link below and select "214 ... 378" from the "Sections and Schedules" drop down menu near the top of the page: [Web LINK]
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| The More I See These Things.... | Jan 11th. at 11:37:52 am EST
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Ariel Moonshadow (Park City, Illinois) - Email Me
...the more disgusted I am with the people who do this. I odn't know if the Mann Act is still in existence or applies to US/Canadian cross-border transport; it used to forbid the transportation of women/girls across US state lines for the purpose of having sex with them, as a means of preventing onwers of brothels from moving women across state lines to avoid the law. The article does say at the end that women and girls are routinely moved back and forth across the US/Canada border. That may be done to confuse them about where they are.
I do have to say that if you are brought up in this environment, you don't think there is anything wrong with it if it is accepted as "normal" by everyone around you. However, I grew up with a father whose common practice was to needle his children into an explosive disagreement at the dinner table, and a mother who sat at her end of the table and did the "everything is just fine" bit, and I had not the slightest idea that this was anything but normal until I dropped out of college and left home for three years, with occasional brief visits, and then returned home to finish school and had to live with my parents again. It was then that I realized that my parents were a pair of complete looney-tunes.
So, unless you get away from this kind of environment, you will believe it is "normal", because you don't know anything else. What we see from the outside is a culture that we find repellent, partly because we dislike fundamentalism and the use of fundamentalism as an excuse for committing what amounts to pedophilia by a bunch of horny middle-aged men; and partly because the exposure of these practices violates our sensibilities which tell us that 12 year old girls should not be having sex or pregnancies, period. This kind of perverted behavior goes back much further than the 19th century. We see these things from the outside. It would be nice to have more insiders leave and tell us all what really happened.
I think that we would probably all agree that these sects have less to do with religious beliefs than with weak, self-centered men (sorry, I'm not doing male-bashing here, but all the perps are men) who get some sense of power by acquiring a following that wants something more "fundamental", and leading those people to believe that this perverted behavior is OK, when in fact, it is not.
The images of Jim Jones at Jonestown, Guyana, and David Koresh in Waco, Texas, stay with me to this day.
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| Official Mormon Story | Jan 9th. at 7:02:38 pm EST
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Lune Argentee (Hayward, California) - Email Me
I'm sorry to disagree, but the story the Mormons state about polygamy resulting from widows on the frontier is a lie. Joseph Smith started the practice. He is estimated to have married anywhere from 47 to 49 women, some of them for only a few days. He developed church dogma to support his sluttish and self-serving behavior. Also, Brigham Young had over 50 wives. There were simply not enough widows to support this type of multiple marriage.
There is a drive among many humans towards multiple partners, both in men and women, although it seems to occur more commonly in men. I've known people in live-in relationships with multiple partners. Personally, if all parties are consenting adults and happy with the arrangement, then it's not my business.
The problem with religious polygamy, of any kind, is that the women are pushed into unhappy relationships, often while still children, and given no choice in the matter, taught that it is their religious obligation to consent. So many bad things happen in these groups that it would take pages to list them.
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| Grrr... | Jan 9th. at 4:17:49 pm EST
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Silver Faery (Hays, Kansas) - Email Me
I grew up in the Mormon church and know why and how come the church did start the multiple marriages, and yes it was to support widows or single women in a time they were not allowed to have much on their own. No they were not normally young girls and yes it was banned by the church in the late 1800's!
Funny my own parents have talked about if polygamy was to ever be reactivated in the church, how would it go. Here is my mom's decision. If my dad found someone else, and she did not approve of it, then there would be no second wife...period! Neither are against it, both have been happily married for almost 31 years now and it wouldn't change the fact that my parents love each other any less. Go figure.
Please don't judge a person for having more then one partner, but I DO NOT agree with men old enough to be a girls father marrying that child. No 12 to 16 year old girl has any idea what marriage really means, and the men are BREAKING the LAW! I am glad these "prophets and leaders" are finally being caught and something being done. Maybe then the women and children and even young men would have a better chance.
Personally I would love to see the Church of Jesus Christ step up and help these families from the Fund Church and help them readapt to society, or provide support. Because honostly they adhere to similar teachings and would be able to help them more then other churches could. I know I walked away from the church at 19, but it doesn't mean it's all bad. It can't be, both my parents are still members themselves, even with disagreements on certain things.
Silver Faery
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| I Hate To See Religions Perverted | Jan 9th. at 3:40:18 pm EST
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Shadowbear (Hillsboro, Oregon) - Email Me
Why does a perfectly sensible rule enacted when there were many more women in the frontier - yes, the mormons developed plural marriage to provide "official" married status to many widows and unmarried women out there in Utah back when it was a wild frontier and before women could vote and, in many places even own property. Having a husband was a necessity to make a woman respectable and to ensure her support when women could not just go out and get a job so they provided a husband for all the women. Not always young or attractive women either - and definitely not the choice of the man. Your bishop told you you could support another wife and, for the most part told you who it would be. The women often did not have sexual relations with their husbands and were known to ask for a divorce upon occasion. At least one of Brigham Young's wives asked for, and got, a divorce without any trouble.
Now, it is used as a "permission" to have sexual relations with young girls and to abuse them and older women as well into a submission that would not have been tolerated by either the women or the men of the original mormon church - they were much more independent than the subdued women of the current polygamist groups.
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| And Yet We Get The Bad Rep! | Jan 9th. at 3:02:31 am EST
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RowanHawk (Scottsburg, Indiana) - Email Me
All this stuff is going on, the Catholic Church has its problems with child abuse, there is the famous televangelist of one of those megachurches sending people to speak to their state representatives to encourage the US to go to war with everyone in the middle East so Jesus can come back. The Mormons are babtizing long dead people of other faiths and yet we are labeled the "ODD" religion? I see these things and I thank the Gods that they found me!
Love to all,
Tom
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| Sounds Like A Lost Cause To Me... | Jan 9th. at 12:12:35 am EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
and just how many wives are actually required to reach heaven?
And what would a girl of twelve know about marriage in the first place?
Actually the reason children are often chosen, is because they are easier to manipulate into acceptance. That is the trouble with this kind of arrangement. It is a possible hot bed of abuse, especially since their partners are old enough to be their fathers-or grandfathers.
These forced marriages also keep the young boys on the string as well, since they can't choose a girl friend from women already married.
In such situations women and children always get short shrift and wind up in a situation that is often akin to slavery as they have no recourse when abuses happen.
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| Y'Know... | Jan 8th. at 8:04:59 pm EST
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
...maybe law enforcement should concern itself less with "practicing polygamy" and worry more about multiple counts of spousal abuse, practicing forced marriages with parties unable to give consent due to a lifetime of being groomed through abusive practices, and practicing forced marriages and nonconsensual intercourse with periadolescent children.
Polygamy really isn't the problem here. The problem here is that spousal abuse and child abuse (possibly systemic) end up being downplayed, sometimes ignored, and even condoned while those responsible for protecting the people rush about prosecuting what should be, absent all those crimes against women and children (and therefore humanity, at least imo) , a valid lifestyle choice for **consenting adults**.
Who wants to bet it's going to be YFZ all over again, even culminating in victims being further victimized before they're returned to their (now seemingly validated) abusers, all because some bunch of reactionary sots didn't think things through before they went after "them abominations what ain't like us"???
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| THE MORE THE FUNDIES CHANGE.... | Jan 8th. at 6:36:51 pm EST
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
the more they stay the same, huh?
+sheesh*
Love to all
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