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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 13369
[Religious]
Date Posted:
7/5/2005
10:25:28 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 7,740
RSS: 8,860
Comments: 22
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Ontario MP, Wife Denied Communion
Author: Canadian Press Source: Canada.com
Title: ONTARIO MP, WIFE DENIED COMMUNION
Charlie Angus and Celina Symmonds had their lives turned upside down when they were told by their parish priests that they could no longer take communion because their stands on social issues conflicted with church teachings.
Angus, a New Democrat MP who represents a northern Ontario riding, ran afoul of the Roman Catholic church over his support for the federal government's controversial same-sex marriage bill.
"It's quite disturbing,'' said Angus, pointing to what he called "the rising militancy of language within the church. I went to Ottawa feeling that I would be speaking as someone rooted in a faith tradition and rooted in a justice tradition.
"Then your involvement in the sacraments becomes a political pressure point. It was unacceptable.''
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Community Thoughts: There are 22 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| To Relent Is To Lose Power.... | Jul 6th. at 9:55:23 pm EDT
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Richard Brownbear (North Wilkesboro, North Carolina) - Email Me
The Catholic Church along with many Christian denominations have to keep to the hard line of conservatism, otherwise they lose what power they have over the people.
Think about Catholic doctrine, or for most Christian doctrines......they are designed to enslave their followers and make more of them....
1. NO CONTRACEPTIVES!---- This leads to more births and consequently MORE Catholics!
2. NO ABORTIONS!----Same result.
3. NO GAY RIGHTS, AT ALL-- Because the Good Book says its a sin! To give in on this would cast doubt on the whole religion.
4. Preists must not marry, because then their loyalties would be divided...same with nuns- I mean what mom or dad doesn't put their kids before everything else including the church?
Can't have that...must have absolute authority over followers.
On and on......
The church cannot allow dissention, because they KNOW it will lead to the destruction of their power base.
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| Yes - Spiritual Blackmail And More! | Jul 6th. at 9:30:53 pm EDT
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Aidan Odinson (Collingdale, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
If a Roman Catholic has an abortion, it is my considered opinion that the church would have room to say something about that person's conduct. If a Roman Catholic marries someone of the same gender, I would also agree that the church would have the right to say something. But that is not the case here.
The basic question is: does a church get to force its members to force their beliefs on others who might believe otherwise? Or does a church look at the individual's conduct and let them follow their conscience in whether or not others must follow the same dictates.
That's the real issue here. Those who oppose abortion should not be forced into having one. Those who oppose same-sex marriages should not be prohibited from marrying someone of the other sex. It's that simple.
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| Oh Dear | Jul 6th. at 1:53:21 pm EDT
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Amtehuti (Queens, Florida) - Email Me
I'm Catholic and my Church is actually rather liberal. The priest knows I'm on birth control pills, that I've had sex before marriage, and that I'm interested in Wicca. He still lets me take communion because he says Jesus loved everyone.
See, real Christians wouldn't do that. That's why so many of us are leaving the Church. The great leaders, like Pope John Paul II, are gone now, and Jesus' message is being destroyed.
I can just say that, judging from the several churches and youth groups I've been to, Pagans and Wiccans better make room for a large new generation of converts.
A lot of us are packing up and leaving.
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| Spiritual Blackmail | Jul 6th. at 1:23:37 pm EDT
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NightLad (Toronto, Ontario) - Email Me
The MPs are voted for by the PEOPLE – not the Vatican. You can tell how scared the freeckin’ RCC is getting when it has to exert spiritual blackmail over its own members to try and influence Secular Governments around the world.
This MP ran with a support of Same-Sex Marriage as part of his election platform. He was elected by the People. He represents ALL the People.
Shame on the Vatican for getting their politics and their theology in a twist. They can’t force me to be Catholic, so they try to infect my Secular Laws with Catholic theology.
Big applause for MP Charlie Angus and his wife Celina Symmonds. If you’d like to write to them to express your feelings, please do so at;
Charlie Angus MP
247 Algonquin Ave. West
Timmins, Ontario, P4N 2R8
705-268-6464
Charlie Angus MP
54 Government Road W.
Kirkland Lake Ontario
705-567-2747
angus.c@parl.gc.ca
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| I Know How They Feel... | Jul 6th. at 11:32:33 am EDT
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Celtic Lullaby (Jefferson, Maryland) - Email Me
I tried to return to the catholic church after being away for many years and hit a brick wall because I have been divorced (from an abusive man, no less - one of the situations in which the catholic church is supposed to support an action of divorce) .
It turned out that if I wanted to receive the sacraments I'd have to get an annulment, and my husband would have to have his first marriage annuled as well. The church sees the bond between first spouses as undissolved unless the church annuls it, even when a civil divorce has been finalized.
They encourage a divorce in situations of abuse, neglect and infidelity, but if you actually get one they punish you by cutting you off from the sacraments, which is the same as cutting you off from God. You have to go before the tribunal and have hearings - it's a lot like testifying in court, and even then the decision is up to the tribunal, so after spending $900 ($450 each for me and my current husband) , my case may still have been denied.
Since I was only trying to embrace christianity under pressure from my family and have no belief in it anyway, it hardly seemed worth all the effort and expense to relive the worst time of my life on the chance that I MAY have been allowed to return.
The church is VERY rigid about their theology. And VERY VERY hypocritical.
Like another person who posted earlier, I'm much happier with my pagan world view.
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| Looks Like The Church... | Jul 6th. at 10:04:52 am EDT
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Ixacacau (Moore, Oklahoma) - Email Me
inadvertently taught Celina Symmonds something very Pagan: that trappings and the approval of others is not necessary for one to have a connection with the Divine.
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| In England... | Jul 6th. at 9:46:13 am EDT
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ForestWolf (Cheshire, England) - Email Me
...if a Catholic marries a C-of-E in some Catholic chuches they'll refuse to ring the bells. If you pester them and ask them really nicely they'll play a tape-recording of the bells being rung!
But that's nothing compared to denying communion based on political beliefs. Wasn't Jesus's message "love to all" heard at all? Reminds me of "The Life of Brian", where no one listened to what he actually said, they just followed him blindly.
crowd -"Oh master, tell us what to do?"
Brian -"F*** OFF!"
crowd -"But how shall we f**** off, oh lord?"
---
Brian - (runs off, loses shoe)
crowd member 1 -Look! It's a sign! The holy shoe!
Brian - (running, throws guord at them)
crowd member 2 -No, follow the holy guord!
Oh well, it's not all bad! At least daft occurrences like this are still rare enough that they makes the news!
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| Shameful Behaviour From The Catholic Church | Jul 6th. at 9:09:30 am EDT
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Ben Gruagach (Oakville, Minnesota) - Email Me
Do they refuse to give communion to people who have been divorced? How about gay priests? People who use contraception (birth control pills, condoms, ANYTHING other than the "rhythm method" approved by the Vatican?)
Do they refuse to give communion to police officers or soldiers who have taken another's life in the course of their work? After all, killing is forbidden in one of the Ten Commandments.
What would Jesus do?
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| Past History | Jul 6th. at 6:36:05 am EDT
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Brunhilde52 (Stafford, Virginia) - Email Me
I was denied communion in the Catholic church 30 years ago, because I married a man who had been divorced. They haven't changed. At least they are consistent. Many Christian denominations not only deny communion, but entirely shun folks who don't conform. I'm much happier with my pagan worldview now.
How can anyone remain a member of an organization when they do not hold the core beliefs anymore? Churchs aren't just social centers.
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| We Saw This Coming... | Jul 6th. at 12:56:10 am EDT
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Lilewyn (Indianapolis, Indiana) - Email Me
When Pope Palpatine over in the Vatican mentioned that he was willing to sacrifice (hm, possibly the wrong word there) some of the people who profess Catholicism in order to have a more 'accurate' church body, he was essentially saying the same thing.
Catholic clergy don't see the church as a popularity contest... if you don't beleive the same way they do, they'd rather you not try to join. I'm not sure I'd consider this as much a political battle as I would suggest that perhaps the MP isn't really Catholic if he beleives against the doctorines of that church. There's certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing with the Catholics, it just makes it difficult to be one if you do.
My opinion is that both sides are "right" in that they're standing up for what they beleive... it's just sad that they had to butt heads to find out that they disagree.
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| This Is A Group That Needs Shrinking | Jul 6th. at 12:24:27 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
that was pretty rotten and uncalled for on the part of the preacher. it also points out that every rightist wants to play politics these days. his problems were not for a preacher's edification, but between him and his deity. i hope he makes it in the next election. as for the preacher-- may his flock take note -- and leave. after all-- they could be next.
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| Forgiveness? | Jul 5th. at 11:59:02 pm EDT
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Lady GoldenRaven (New Castle, Michigan) - Email Me
Whatever happened to forgiveness? If I remember my Xtianity right---ddin't the Lord say------I can forgive all sins? If he can forgive someone who has beaten tortured, raped, child moleted, etc. I am quite sure he would forgive someone whose only "sin" was signing a paper stating beliefs towards same sex marraiges. So who the he$$ are they (the Church) to deny ANYONE?
I would have walked out of the church with a couple of nasty hand gestures!
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| I Am Glad They Realized | Jul 5th. at 11:49:19 pm EDT
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Silver Faery (Hays, Kansas) - Email Me
"I just learned that (the Lord) was here whether or not I went into the Catholic Church. I know what I believe and I believe in it strong enough. I feel like I'm at peace with that now.''
That is the one thing that got to me as a Christian, you don't need a Church. The ones I know that I count as a true Christian, don't go to church...most don't feel comfortable in church...it is not required!
I am sorry this happened to them, but I hope they find a church that suits their personal beliefs even better then the one that kicked them out.
Silver Faery
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| It's Really Amazing ... | Jul 5th. at 11:31:46 pm EDT
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Rev Jorinx (Sioux City, Iowa) - Email Me - Web
... how fast they react when it comes to acceptance of same-sex marriage and just how badly they drag their feet when it's a matter of investigating widespread sexual abuse in the RC church.
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| Church No Longer Rules The World | Jul 5th. at 10:51:48 pm EDT
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Stormsinger (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) - Email Me
The Catholic Church may win a few brownie points with their more fundamentalist fringe, but overall I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. These folks are going to walk out that door and not come back. Like the one woman mentioned, they will find other avenues to their God, ones that don't come with a whip and blinders.
The days when "Paris is worth a mass, " and excommunicated kings crawled on their hands and knees from the gates of Vatican City for forgiveness are long since gone. Like the MP said -- he's got to serve ALL his constituency, and he's smart enough to recognize that it includes a lot of non-Catholics. He is a secular leader in a secular age. He'll live without the Pope's blessing on his every word and deed. May he find a less dogmatic, more Christian community, and may he prosper.
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