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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 9827
[Archaeology]
Date Posted:
5/5/2004
7:37:26 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 6,743
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Comments: 3
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Mayan Discovery Points To Sophisticated Society
Author: CNN Source: CNN
Title: MAYAN DISCOVERY POINTS TO SOPHISTICATED SOCIETY
Excavations at a little-known Mayan ruin in Guatemala indicate it was once one of the largest and most sophisticated cities in the preclassic Mayan world.
Archaeologist Francisco Estrada-Belli of Vanderbilt University and colleagues have been conducting research excavations at the site, called Cival, since 2000, with support from the National Geographic Society.
They said the city thrived from about 500 B.C. to 100 A.D., when it was apparently sacked by invaders and then abandoned.
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Community Thoughts: There are 3 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| OK, Bred... But Don't Eat Green Tubers... | May 6th. at 3:03:38 am EDT |
by Robert Thralls (Memphis, TN) - wc_xemail
Bred is a better term than engineered, if you think breeding any less than slowly engineering a product. Today, the fast engineering of product usually includes the haphazard insertion of genetic elements into a plant's genome. Breeding eliminates that problem. So, if the breeding took thousands of years, then it is reasonable to assume that it was no less than a conspiracy of thousands of botanists and farmers over thousands of years in a concerted effort to figure out what works best in current growing conditions and keeping that which is strong for freak, temporary conditions... hmmm, hard to deny that common farmers wouldn't know what was going on with the crops they plant, especially when they are empowered to give feedback on product. Engineering does imply science without spirituality (that is specifically why I chose the word - allowing one to deny the corn god altogether, and simply state that it may be a sign for the local Mayan department of agriculture) . Breeding is less philosophical, in that it has a wholeness that sustains a sprituality that uses and combines with science (in this case knowledge of botany of thousands of years) . However, the sprituality does not reside in a corn god, nor do I believe that a culture such as Mayan would allow such difference in education levels. Today, Belize actually represents a middle Mayan culture, with a literacy rate of 94% in English, almost 70% also speak spanish (50% natively, 20% secondary) . Functional literacy for Creole is better than 75%. Better than half the population is Mayan decent, 44.1% Mayan/European, 9% Mayan. The most amazing thing is that a high literacy rate is shown in modern times with the average income far below poverty, and they farm at an average of less than one person per four hectares!!!! 809, 000 hectares of farmland, but a population of only 216, 000 Total (that is everybody) . If 60% are capable of working in farming, then that is 1 person for every 64206 square meters. Farming in Belize is considered extremely efficient when compared to the US: 1:809371.28 square meters of heavy mechanized industrial agriculture (the energy consumed by the US in agriculture with mechanization and chemical application is outrageous, and the energy yeild is very little, thus inefficient) . Doesn't sound like the Mayan were ever third world to me. As a matter of fact, it still sounds like they know a little more about crops than we do...
It is also interesting to note that estimates are between 20-40% functionally illiterate for the US. We have taken great strides to become the reductionalist society of scientists. However, it is interesting that high illiteracy rates lead to distorted belief systems. Not that we need to get into that here, but what the heck... The formation of splinter groups from the main is primarily the basis of shifting power. Divide and conquer, so to speak, but the looser or stricter interpretations of religious aspects oft end in splintering from within. Usually, the case of one faction more open to ideas (and generally better educated) than a steadfast group. Illiteracy breeds resistance to change. It is the systemic disease that kills development of society from within.
PS: Don't eat a green tuber of a potato or the sprouts, or any part of a potato that is Green. It *may* Kill you - it is still extremely toxic. Likewise, tomatos' leaves and stems are poisonous, which varies according to the variety. It is interesting that many places in Europe still consider the Tomato a poisonous plant, and will not be served as food (particularly Northern Europeans) . Sure, the beginings were quite different plants, but they did start off quite poisonous, and they remain to this day, still quite poisonous. They did have to figure out how to 'breed' the poison out of the tuber and berry of the nightshade family.
No, they didn't say why now the Mayan civilization was any greater than the last time they said it was great. I was expecting to see the something like proof of the origin of pyramids, technology transfers, and/or the return of a mayan king in a spacecraft.... (he, he) .
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| No Headline | May 5th. at 9:33:52 pm EDT |
by epona (Vancouver, BC, Canada) - wc_xemail
The Mayans never engineered a plant. Ever. They definitely BRED plants, taking species that would be unfamiliar to us today and creating many new varieties and even new species that would be more familiar to us (over hundreds and even thousands of years) . Maize = what we call corn, yes, it is of the Podaceae family. Yes, potatoes and tomatoes are in the Solanaceae family, the same as Deadly Nightshade. That doesn't mean they used to be poisonous and by some genetic engineering feat, or even feat of plant breeding, Mayans made a poisonous plant non-poisonous. The Solanaceae family is very large, and there are several taxonomic degrees of seperation between a potato and nightshade, perhaps it was a narrower gap, but they were never the same plant. Corn is technically an older english term for what we call wheat, not just any grain, that came to end up on maize due to it's similar position in american societies as a staple grain.
To say that they didn't have a corn god because they "engineered" it is terribly off-mark, because chances are that the people doing the worshipping had no idea at all how their ancestors had bred the maize they were eating over millenia (not to mention the fact that they never engineered the maize) , and how they were continuing to do so. Most civilizations did not realise to what extent their actions were influencing the evolution of their crop plants, and to them it probably seemed quite magical that they had such a good crop. Even if they did know to what extend their actions had bred the maize to its then-current form, there is no reason to suggest they wouldn't still worship a corn god for teaching them how to grow it, or for discovering the merits of its ancestor.
End note: hadn't they decided decades ago that the Mayans were advanced? This article didn't seem to elaborate on why this discovery makes them 'more' advanced.
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| Corn Deity???? | May 5th. at 12:50:28 pm EDT |
by Robert Thralls (Memphis, TN) - wc_xemail
"Among the items of interest uncovered so far are two large stucco masks associated with the Mayan corn deity."
Idiots! The Mayans engineered maize from Podacae Grass. (Corn is a european term to generalize any type of grain crop) . Maize is a term applied to any type of large hard grain, not just Podacae grass. Maize is the Mayan gift to the world because it is directly linked to the population boom the world over. Most likely, the Mayans would offer this life giving grass to the gods as a token, much the same way we offer food and wine to the dead.
They would also ask that the crops be watched over, and integrated into nature by giving an agricultural god the gift of life. By giving it to the god, they would ensure its integration back into nature and that nature would accept the new plant as its own.
It would have been the ultimate food for a leader to take with him on his journey in the afterlife. It would have been offered to gods as their most prized possession.
Until the Potato was invented. Then the sweet potato, peanut, tomato, etc, etc, etc. even the Pineapple! Not to mention beans and squash!!! How did the rest of the world eat before 1492??? The most amaizing thing is that the tomato, the eggplant, and the POTATO is engineered from Bella-Donna (Solanaceae) , otherwise known as "Nightshade, " perhaps the most deadly plant on earth. Yes, they were a most advanced race and I don't think they would make up a god for something they created themselves!
Yes, folks, all these plants were engineered by a people who vanished long before the europeans came along.... or did they? There is also evidence that the Entire Continent of South America was farmed and vast canals moved product effeciently to the East to feed larger populations of Europe, Middle East, and Africa. Let us not forget the Atlantians who fed the world when both the fertile lands of Iraq and Egypt began to dry out and turn to sand. The food did not come from a small Greek island, but that island was a safe harbor to use as a distribution point.
I don't think it right that we attribute the appearance of maize on a totem to indicate that there ever was a Maize God -- especially since they knew where this plant came from! This only serves to diminish the Mayan intellect and cheapens their and our own belief system.
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