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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 12801
[Religious]
Date Posted:
4/29/2005
8:25:26 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 21,169
RSS: 9,267
Comments: 31
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Saudis Arrest 40 Christians In Raid On Secret Church
Author: AP Source: Chicago Sun Times (IL)
Title: SAUDIS ARREST 40 CHRISTIANS IN RAID ON SECRET CHURCH
  Forty foreign Christians, children included, were arrested for proselytizing when police raided a clandestine church in suburban Riyadh. Convictions could result in harsh prison sentences, followed by deportation.
Lt. Col. Saad al-Rashud, who heads a wide-ranging security campaign in the capital, said the believers' meeting place, which displayed crosses, was run by a Pakistani who led prayers, heard confessions, distributed Communion and claimed to heal the sick.
Although the Prophet Muhammad tolerated Christian churches in his realm, modern Saudi Arabia has made it illegal to promote any religion other than Islam and outlaws churches.
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Community Thoughts: There are 31 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| A Warning... | Apr 30th. at 2:45:47 pm EDT
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William (Pictou Landing, Nova Scotia) - Email Me
I hate intolerance where ever it rears it's ugly head... however, we must remember that the rights and freedoms we enjoy here ( specifically Canada and the US) are not enjoyed everywhere. These people should have knew the law of the land and respected it...period. People have to learn when to keep their mouths shut or suffer the consequences... so while I wish them well and hope for their safety, I cannot feel sorry for them.
I think we would do well right here in the west to keep a close watch on the right-wing fundies who would like to take away the rights we have and create the same type of 'conform or be cast out' situation.
This is an example of what happens when one group has complete religious dominance. If you see your rights being watered down, get loud and get mean and don't allow yourselves to end up in this same type of situation... because it CAN and WILL happen if you remain passive and silent.
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| Well Der... | Apr 30th. at 12:09:18 pm EDT
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Nathan (London - Uxbridge, England) - Email Me
Well it's there own fault, I mean you can argue it as discrimination blah blah blah, but when it comes down to it they broke the countries law, and they must accept the conciquences of their actions. Like the article said they can practice their religion in their own home, but not as a group. I mean it's like me going into a church and prancing around on the alter doing pagan blessings. It's just not done. And like I said you can argue the point of discrimination. But most laws discriminate against some kind of person. So if you want to tople this law, then topple all of them and see where society ends up. If your brake the law, you've got to be punished. end of story, I'd expect the same thing for anyone, regardless of their religion.
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| They Accepted The Risks. | Apr 30th. at 12:44:31 am EDT
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Winddragon (anderson, South Carolina) - Email Me
They knew the risks and accepted them. I don't agree with religious persecution but there is more to it. Xians undermine their enemies politically . Xians fund such actions with the tons of money they bilk from idiots here in the states. Japan discovered their tricks and beheaded them and forbid foreigners from entering the country for many years. Everywhere they go they spread their doctrinal virus. Such promises of heaven and treasures, the threats of a burning Hell, and yes...AIR CONDITIONERS! I'd praise Jesus to get out of the literal furnace for awhile. Not really. Only if it got me laid. But, they have killed those whom they could not convert. For now, at least in America, they only kill the freedoms of those not party to their cause. That tide is turning. Those people would be lucky not to be killed as spies. Different rules over there.
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| Air Conditioning!!! | Apr 29th. at 8:31:06 pm EDT
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
What better excuse have we, to organize the Christians into upgrades of foreign gaols?
Arawn
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| Let's Not Have This Here. | Apr 29th. at 6:58:05 pm EDT
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Mitarth (Harrisburg, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
If the christians that are trying to topel the Constitution in favor of the bible get there way, we will have to watch out in our own country for just this problem. I beleive I just read an article posted today about that very thing.
Blessing for the future,
Mitarth
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| Have We Really Come This Far Down? | Apr 29th. at 6:09:40 pm EDT
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Enai Jalar (Jacksonville, Alabama) - Email Me
I don't normally post on here, but I'm a little annoyed.
I've been a Wiccan on and off for well over half my life, and one thing I've learned in all my years is tolerance.
Even when people show you none.
We shouldn't be happy about this, we should be appauled. Granted Christians have persecuted us for years, and we've done it to them, but we should always be mindful that perscution is not ok.
I feel pity for these people, because of what's probably going to happen to them. The same thing that's been happening to the pagan community for centuries.
Ok. I just wanted to rant.
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| Law Of The Land In Saudi | Apr 29th. at 6:06:06 pm EDT
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Jill Medicine Heart (Blue Creek, Ohio) - Email Me
... states that Muslim is the national religion and any other religion is illegal. Regardless if they are christian, pagan, jew and etc.. it is ILLEGAL to practice a different fatih in that country! If pagans got together in Saudi and were caught, the blame should be placed on them as well as any one else who isn't practicing Islam.
Why in Hades name would ANY take that stupid chance of getting caught of practicing a faith that is illegal in that country? Are people idiots? Whoever it is, they deserve the punishment that they receive since they are under Saudi law.
Hence, the adage, when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Jill Medicine Heart
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| Oh Well | Apr 29th. at 5:17:29 pm EDT
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William (Pictou Landing, Nova Scotia) - Email Me
They should have respected the law.
I find this strange;
"Members of other religions generally are allowed to practice their beliefs within private homes but may not seek converts or hold organized religious gatherings"
I bet this is not a far cry from what many fanatical Christians in our neck of the woods would adopt if given the chance. But watch them hiss and whine over it happening to their own.
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| I'm In Awe... | Apr 29th. at 5:15:42 pm EDT
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Thora Rolandsdottir (Norman, Oklahoma) - Email Me
When it's a Pagan that's experiencing religious persecution (real OR percieved) , people can't scream loud enough to condemn the perpetrators. But when it's a Christian, there are thinly-veiled expressions of "oh well, sux for them, but they deserve it for being Christian".
Anyone who takes even a grain of pleasure in this kind of story should be ashamed of themselves. Those poor people were just trying to practice their religion, in secret, thanks to Muslim religious fanaticism, and now they're going to face prison & probably torture for getting caught. If anyone takes any delight in that, he/she is a horrible person.
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| What Goes Around... | Apr 29th. at 3:10:07 pm EDT
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Arondelle (Milford, New Hampshire) - Email Me
... Does not necessarily come around.
American Evangelicals (AKA, the Dominionists, the ones who are trying to take over the government) are likely to weep and moan about the Saudis persecuting their co-religionists and then say: "Look at how evil those Muslims are: We should retaliate by rounding up all Muslims and throwing them out of the country."
It's all about an eye for an eye, not taking the plank out of one's own eye before criticizing the speck in the eye of another.
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| The Broom Closet For Christians | Apr 29th. at 12:52:45 pm EDT
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Fred Lawrence (Kansas City, Kansas) - Email Me
Maybe the best things for Christians living in Saudi Arabia would be the "broom closet." Somehow, this idea tickles me.
Given that there are a lot of foreigners in that kingdom, I wonder how Wiccans working there cope with matters....
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| The Way Things Are Going These Days | Apr 29th. at 12:05:22 pm EDT
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medusa (seattle, Washington) - Email Me
I can foresee a day when our government is making raids on non-christian groups in this country. We all underestimate the tenet of many christian churches that says that their salvation depends on everyone in the community or country to be on the same page religion-wise. And we do so at our peril
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| Proselytizers Not Welcome. | Apr 29th. at 11:33:02 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
The religion of Islam was brought by the sword and torch of the Raider. And although they do show some tolerance of people of other faiths, they will not tolerate any faith but the one they brought and imposed with their conquests in those early years, and segregate those 'others' as much as they can. Apostasy is a capital crime in those lands, and Proselytizers are swiftly and summarily dealt with when and if they appear.
The different sects within that faith don't always agree with each other either, so they have a constant conflict in those lands. Foreigners that appear should well understand where they are and know the rules. If they don't, they have no business being there. And those that go to actively proselytize, are taking a huge risk by going. The Saudis don't play games, especially in enforcing their religious and other laws. Hopefully, those people won't come to any harm, but if they knew what it was going to be when they stepped in, then they should know the consequences as well.
Sheep that willingly, knowingly, step into a den full of lions shouldn't complain if they are eaten. After all, it's THEIR den.
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| Jumping To Conclusions | Apr 29th. at 10:53:27 am EDT
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Airmid (Oshkosh, Wisconsin) - Email Me
I think that our experiences in the U.S. with the ultra-fundie, crazed, proselytyzing Christians is perhaps leading people to jump to conclusions about these people's motives.
Yes, they are foreigners, but let's not assume that they're missionaries. There are a lot of reasons to move to Saudi Arabia that have nothing to do with a desire to convert the masses. It's one of the most prosperous countries in that region, with lots of development and, hence, lots of jobs. Think of the number of Westerners whose jobs take them there! Also, compared to parts of Pakistan or other countries, it's relatively stable. You're somewhat less likely to be blown to bits while grocery shopping.
Also, people are assuming that these people were Christians before they moved there. Perhaps their change of heart came after they had moved. I would think that everyone visiting this site could understand the feeling that comes when you find the spiritual path that is right for you. It can be a powerful feeling. People living in the Bible Belt who decide that paganism is right for them, or pagans who move there, shouldn't remain in the Christian church just because it would make their lives easier. Neither should these people have to deny their faith.
Ultimately, the unsympathetic comments posted on this issue are a symptom of the animosity that most of us (myself included, generally) feel toward the rabid Christians in our own country. But I think that when we find ourselves defending the actions of a cruel, repressive theocracy such as Saudi Arabia, we need to step back and realize that perhaps we're letting our feelings about *some* Christians cloud our judgement.
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| Let's Look At Some Apparent Facts | Apr 29th. at 10:48:51 am EDT
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Aidan Odinson (Collingdale, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
If they were there to convert others, there should have been some Saudis among those arrested. Apparently, this was a group of foreigners who came together to worship in their own way.
Ironic in some ways, and perhaps a violation of the Koran. After all, Christians and Jews are "People of the Book" and according to Islamic tradition are to be accorded respect.
Descriptions of religious activities by journalists I consider suspect, but if the Pakistani leader of the group was distributing communion and hearing confessions, he probably was either an ordained priest or he was a deacon or layman licesed by some authority as an "extraordinary minister".
Let us not forget that Pope John Paul II took the name of at least one Cardinal to his grave because the man would have been in danger in his country had he been named publicly. I cannot say that the "secret Cardinal" was a Saudi, but he could have been.
This is a case to watch, and a case to call the Christians to task about. Their own scripture says "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In this case, I would ask if this is what we would face if the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell gained the level of power which they seem to want.
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