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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20622
[Religious]
Date Posted:
5/9/2009
1:33:12 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 7,055
RSS: 24,863
Comments: 19
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Saudi Police Launch Campaign Against Witchcraft
Author: SPA Source: Times of India
Title: SAUDI POLICE LAUNCH CAMPAIGN AGAINST WITCHCRAFT
Saudi Arabia's morality police are launching a programme to combat witchcraft and sorcery, the official SPA news agency reported on Saturday.
The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, also known as the muttawa, will create teams especially trained to eradicate the practices, deputy commission president Ibrahim al-Hoiml told SPA.
"The plan is aimed at developing people to work in the field on cases of witchcraft and sorcery to protect the society and raise public awareness," he said.
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Community Thoughts: There are 19 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Tolerance Only Need Go So Far | May 12th. at 9:55:09 am EDT
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Dan Holzman-Tweed (New York CIty, New York) - Email Me
There is no inconsistency between saying that there is no one right way and that there is a wrong way.
There is no inconsistency between saying that there is no one right way and that someone, such as the State religion of Saudi Arabia, is engaged in wrong action.
Tolerance does not obligate us to support and arm those who announce they intend our eradication.
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| One Caution | May 11th. at 8:39:37 am EDT
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Carousel Maker (Onaway, Michigan) - Email Me
Just remember that the Saudi offical brand of islam teaches that it is not a sin to kill one who is not a follower of that practice. Wren had that article up a few months back so
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| Oh Well... | May 11th. at 12:37:06 am EDT
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Roy Linford Adams (Buxton, Maine) - Email Me
It's saudi arabia. I don't care if they ban breathing. This only effects the 1 pagan living there. And if they pretend for a week to be catholic, can get a free ticket out of there through the catholic charities of Maine. They'll be given an apartment in Portland and even a job to start off with. Once here with a green card, they can toss out the bible, take the cross off, and go on practicing the Old Ways happily.
Hell, that's what the muslims are doing to get here.
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| Wrong, Wrong, Wrong | May 10th. at 10:07:56 pm EDT
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Ander s. Drake (hays, Kansas) - Email Me
I have understanding and tolerance for almost any thing except, those who are intolerant. No government or religion has any right to dictate what people think, believe, or practice. I have no compassion for those people who persecute others in the name of conformity. Saudi Arabia has a record of the worst human rights violations in the world. We are not being bias by exposing and condemning the violations they commit. Many people from the big 3 mainstream religions are tolerant people but many more are not at all tolerant. In fact intolerance seems to be build into the big three religions, regardless of whither these people simply misinterpret their religious sources or are twisted to severe someone's political agenda they are making a choice to hurt people. I don't care if some people thinks I'm being bias back or being negative. Being a Pagan\Wicca doesn't mean you have to be totally passive and blind to those ideologies that are malicious in nature. I will not apologize for telling the truth or being who I am.
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| The Thing Everyone Needs To Understand | May 10th. at 3:44:57 pm EDT
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Hindustaniwarrior (Kansas City, Missouri) - Email Me
is that it's not a foreign power doing this to another country, it's a government doing this to both expatriot workers (Primarily Indian, hence the times of India's interest, Indian workers do the majority of the dirty jobs in the middle east, much like Hispanics do in North America, or Turkish and North African nationals do in Europe) and minority non-Muslim Arabs. While "Witchcraft" as we know it is generally not practiced in the Arab Peninsula, Sufism is, as is Hinduism. Both of which have practices which would fall under witchcraft under these types of laws. Sufism, BTW, is an offshoot of Islam.
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| Power Play | May 10th. at 2:06:48 pm EDT
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Maeven (Los Angeles, California) - Email Me
Whenever there is a sweep of power take over, one of the first targets is usually the sages, shamans and mystical leaders of that community. If you study virtually every continent where indigenous peoples are overtaken by an oppressive force, the spiritual leaders, who are the back bone of the community and their link to the spiritual forces protecting them, and any others who are able to tip the playing field in the underdog's favor despite facing military and economic strength, get targeted and removed asap, usually before the main troops arrive in the case of foreign invaders. Then the culture goes through a propaganda phase where they are made to fear such spiritual power and report and turn in anyone they think may have it with witch scares. Then after it's stamped out they get conditioned to believe it was all mumbo jumbo and that scientific theory is the only real truth.
Meanwhile, the oppressor often attempts to capture that spiritual power denied to the masses and harness it in for themselves wrapped under secrecy. Power is power, after all. If any old ways continue to exist despite these efforts, it usually gets sanitized so it doesn't carry any real force or power and is essentially harmless/powerless, along with the culture's pressure that it's not real.
For example, with astrology, most of the kings and queens have had seers that they relied quite heavily on, but at the same time astrology went through a sanitization, which is evident if you compare renaissance and modern astrology. You can also see the same effect in today's magic and spell books as compared to ancient tomes. They've been made less powerful, misleading, less dangerous and more fluffy. Modern day practitioners in our country are taught to fear using anything that can harm or manipulate, which truly does weaken any practitioner. People fear anyone who has an advantage over them wheich they can do nothing about. The problem is, what happens when something really bad occurs and the witch is left powerless to do anything about it? Bindings don't always work and aren't always enough. If your power can't save you in the worst of times, what good is it really?
Throughout magical history, people turned to occult practitioners when they had no other hope of overcoming a problem. Many times the problems are matters of life and death, or enslavement, starvation, and the death of loved ones. It was a way for the poor and disadvantaged to tip the playing field back into their favor and have a chance again.
This article is about targeting any and all occult practitioners in Saudi Arabia. Some were quoted as doing healing work, and yet they are still being targeted regardless of proving real results or not, positive worker or not. The real truth is that there are good and bad witches, just like every other group of people. This is a systematic genocide of EVERY occult practitioner, regardless of authenticity or ethics, and that is a political matter.
My heart goes out to them. "To know, to will, to dare, and to be silent." May they be cloaked in shadows and concealed from their executioners, and may that country's people not lose such a valuable spiritual resource and part of their soul.
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| Ok, Calm Down Ppl.......... | May 10th. at 10:24:20 am EDT
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Jedi Gordy (Edinboro, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
The witchcraft the the saudis, the world, and the scientific community are talking about is MUCH different than what you guys define it. Read something antropological sometime and you will see. "witchcraft" is the act of casting harmful spells on another person, not "casting spells in general". Love spells, not witchcraft. Evil eye, witchcraft. Just because some of us dont believe harmful spells dont exist, doesnt mean they dont exist. I can believe that the earth is flat. Guess what? it isnt. And please, not all Muslims are bad, it is some of the cultures, and a small minority in those cultures that give the bad rap for all of them, same with Jews, and Christians, etc.
Although, out of every religion i have seen, Neopagans tend to be the most hateful and fundimental. Thus, i hang my head in shame at my sisters and brethren.
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| Incentives And Moving Lines In The Sand | May 10th. at 10:22:08 am EDT
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karrie9 (Kenosha, Wisconsin) - Email Me - Web
Saudi Arabia has dealt with witchcraft before with charges, arrests, and even death sentences.
But now there is a drive to develop **guidelines.**
"A study of this project was carried out by the Center for Research and Study which is affiliated to the CPVPV and which put a number of legal opinions on the table including; a definition of magic, witchcraft, divination, fortune-telling and other similar practices, a scientific definition to magical practices, and a model in order to help uncover such practices.
The study, also clarified the signs and symbols that can be used in the practice of magic, as well as the tools used to control magic, while also advising that a system of cooperation be initiated between the various authorities involved in this fight against such practices and those who perform them."
How many parallels to The Malleus Maleficarum (Latin for “The Hammer of Witches")
of Heinrich Kramer and James Sprenger [1487]. That was about laying down the guidelines too. I don't know how well they defined tools but I'd bet they have some wiggle room as to what tools of magic are. It's so typical to have laxitudes in the middle of such an organized (dogma) definition-driven focus on cracking down on witchcraft.
"The joint-taskforce comprising the CPVPV and the appropriate security agencies was adopted in order to combat what the CPVPV leadership called "the manifestations of this problem, and to define the responsibilities of the parties involved in order to reduce the spread [of magic]" while also recommending that incentives be given to the security agencies that combat magic and witchcraft."
Incentives. Just like when they seized the belongings or estates of those accused of witchcraft during the european witchhunts.
Included are measures to control telecommunications and Internet via service providers (that kind of rings a bell...) . Where are the lines drawn exactly? I guess people will find out when in court. Perhaps fighting for their lives.
Oh, but it's all defined. practical, and scientific. Aren't organized witchhunts always that? Heh.
The CPVPV study seeks "to fill the vacuum by making legal and regulatory determinations, as well as clarify the burden of evidence for magic and witchcraft cases as being scientific and practical, while also increasing the number of those involved in combating such cases, from the security agents on the ground, including the men of the CPVPV, to investigators, and judges."
By fill in the vacuum and clarify...I'd bet they mean greatly broaden the government's wiggle room as to what tools of magic and other evidence "are." The definitions aren't scientific, practical and precise, they're driven by dogma and a lust for power and fortune!
Nothing like throwing incentives into that mix while increasing the ranks of agents, men of the CPVPV, investigators, and judges.
Can you say holy crap, boys and girls?
Funny this comes at a time when a world hunger for oil may no longer be the case, decreasing wealth and power for this nation. So they go cannibalistic, devouring/destroying their own to pave new broadened paths to power and wealth collecting? Yeah, that always works (sarcasm) .
Find More info -- HERE
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| This Is War At Work!!! | May 10th. at 8:17:42 am EDT
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Draco (Wichita, Kansas) - Email Me
I my self would like to go places in the middle-east some day and visit the old places some day. Babylon, etc.
I should be able to visit and we can't, being deamed that of which we are Pagan's and Proud Pagan's at that I am proud of who I am and what I Believe in.
I was in the U.S Army and if I was still in over fighting to protect people like this, I would be ashamed to be there, knowing I could be killed for who or what I am. And me still do my duty as a us army pagan.
These people need to open there eye's and see that I,WE will not and shall not lie down and just die, just for them.
No jew, islam, or christian, and cathlic, Etc. will Ilie down for never, WE where hear before them and will be long after them.
I do not speak in hatered to any one, but we must have a breaking point some wear, and soon.
Draco
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| ... | May 10th. at 4:56:44 am EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
It's time once again to post one of my favorite quotes when dealing with a society that wants to see every last one of us killed as per its vile book:
"Culture carries no priviledge to exist. Cultures do not have value simply because they are. Some cultures, the world is better off without. I submit, for your consideration, the Imperial Order." - Kahlan Amnell, Terry Goodkind's "Soul of the Fire"
Let's face facts: The world would be better off without xian theocracies, the "nation" of Israel, and the 47 islamic states. Matter of fact, the world would be better off if every church, synagogue, and mosque were nothing more than crumbling and condemned façades.
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| This Is Starting To Work Against Them | May 10th. at 3:52:44 am EDT
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Ian Edwards (Portsmouth, England) - Email Me - Web
Because of the economic downturn sales of oil are dropping off and most of the Middle East is trying the old 'invest in property' standby with big developments in Dubai and other emirates and countries. I was doing my regular wage job for my city council under fives safety in the home effort and got talking to the husband at one house about property investment and he mentioned this to me.
“Property in Dubai very good investment” He said “Nice country, many Europeans moving there and making lots of money” (This was literarily a week before the news of that property bubble bursting reached the financial press)
“Yes” I replied “But the spiritual path I follow isn’t welcome there”
“No problem” He replied “Many Christians out there, all types of churches”
“Yes, but I’m not a Christian” I said, fishing out my haematite pentagram from under my work shirt and showing it to him. “Which is a pity because I have been to Dubai and really enjoyed the people, museums, the weather and the markets.”
This pretty much mugged the conversation on that subject but the guy was still very hospitable, as people are in the Arab homes I visit as part of that particular job. I did see him looking at me a bit askance in some of the reflective surfaces around the house when he thoughtI wasn’t looking at him. He was probably trying to square what he had been told about Witches with my concern for his children’s’ safety, his and his wife’s safety, and even my concern for his pet fishes happiness and safety.
It’s a particularly close community in the areas I work and I still get calls to Arab households so he can’t have thought too badly of a Witch fitting his safety stuff
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| Have You All Forgotten.... | May 10th. at 1:53:42 am EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
There is something I have noticed about these kind of articles. Here in the U.S.A., "we" enjoy a certain freedom of religion -- we are free to worship how we want to (within reason) , free to not attend "church", etc -- and fight with all of "our" energy to retain that freedom.
What "we" tend to forget is that YOUR religious views are not those of everyone else. Yes, we all want to be free to worship as we choose, and it is good that y'all are wiling to fight for that freedom, that Right. But there is a danger in declaring that "we" have that Right while condemning others for exercising that Right.
That danger is this: You become the Hypocrite you condemn.
While it is not right that people are persecuted for being "controversial", regarding certain religious norms, Islam is the State Religion in Saudi Arabia, and according to Islam witchcraft and sorcery are not to be tolerated at all.
If you don't agree with the State Religion of Saudi Arabia, you have two main choices as to how to show you disagree with it: don't live there -- or use Reason and Logic to educate people as to why they should not follow Islam.
Declaring that the Saudis are part of a "backward, primitive culture" and should not be allowed to have Modern technology doesn't do anything constructive. All it does is say that only "your" way can possibly be the "right" way -- something the regulars here at WitchVox have always condemned certain others for doing. "Religious Tolerance" means tolerance for ALL religious views -- not just the ones you happen to agree with.
--nasionnaich
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| Perhaps The Enlightenment Will Arrive Soon? | May 10th. at 12:17:05 am EDT
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Just A Wolf (Seward, Michigan) - Email Me
Perhaps the Saudi anti-vice squad could borrow our 50s films on conformity and awkward hygiene?
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| ... | May 9th. at 8:21:28 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
Does anyone remember the Prime Directive from the "Star Trek" series? One of the things most mentioned is NOT LETTING PRIMITIVE CULTURES (like a certain Middle Eastern cult that still lives in the Dark Ages) ACCESS TO MODERN TECHNOLOGY AND RESOURCES.
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| Interesting That The Article Was In Indian News | May 9th. at 7:14:06 pm EDT
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