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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 6496
[Pagan]
Date Posted:
3/12/2003
9:58:47 am EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 9,172
RSS: 0
Comments: 17
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Satanism: Pagans Spell It Out
Author: Bryan Porter Source: News 24
Title: SATANISM: PAGANS SPELL IT OUT
The South African pagan community has hit back after reports earlier this week that a "witches Mecca" was operating on the Gauteng West Rand, with hundreds of school pupils involved in Satanism.
The report quoted self-professed occult expert Dr Kobus Jonker, who said there were an estimated 62 000 Satanists in South Africa, 80% of whom were under 18.
South African Pagan Federation president the Rev Norman Geldenhuys responded: "The figure of 62 000 is ludicrous.
"The Christian definition of Satanism is loaded, in that it classifies all other practicing religious groups (with the possible exception of Jews and Muslims) as Satanists.
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Community Thoughts: There are 17 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| A Question... | Mar 13th. at 8:27:29 am EST |
by blackberry amethyst (England) - wc_xemail
I know that this is a little bit like threadjacking, but I wanted to ask a question about the people who wrote this article, and others like it: why is wicca so often associated with satanism? We worship different Gods in different places, many pagans have never even done a spell, and those who are wiccans will know that the types of spells we do are very different from those satanists do (or at least, the one I know.) We have virtually nothing in common, and what wed o is hardly enough to base an opinion of our religions combined upon. It would be like syaing, Hindu's pray to a God and so do Christians so they must both be the same!
It's sad though, that article...
-ammy-
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| Here You Go Epona | Mar 13th. at 6:38:29 am EST |
by Aquila ka Hecate (Johannesburg) - wc_xemail - Web
Hosea Ch13v16:
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
..and that's just one out of a googleplex.
You know, the PFSA gets on my nerves also, but it's not polite to say so internationally, so I shan't.
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| Not With The Satanists Again | Mar 13th. at 3:01:00 am EST |
by Epona (Vancouver, Canada) - wc_xemail
I always wonder what the satanists have to say about these articles? www.churchofsatan.com. Now, these people call themselves satanists, they seem reasonably intelligent, in most cases incredibly successful people, and are simply committed to an orgy of life. The impression I got was that they were unlikely to hurt anyone unless they were attacked first, and they are quite explicit about not ever hurting animals or children. They consider animals and children the supreme innocents, and seem to actually revere them. I suppose that there must be thousands of groups that call themselves satanists, and who probably do practice sacrifice, just as I'm sure there are people out there calling themselves witches and wiccan etc., doing things that are not acceptable to the majority of the neo-pagan movement.
Why this preoccupation by these fundies with the evil sacrifice anyway? Maybe they should play a game called find the references to sacrifice performed by good Christians in the Bible. I believe there is a passage about dashing out the brains of the unbelievers infants against rocks in there somewhere...but of course I can't find it right now to back myself up... does anyone else know which passage/book I'm thinking of?
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| Is Anybody Else Sick Of This Geldenhuys Guy? | Mar 12th. at 8:41:29 pm EST |
by Saradia (Campbellsport, WI) - wc_xemail
I don't know what it is, but he seems to have little clue of what Paganism is beyond Wicca.
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| Stop, STOP | Mar 12th. at 5:59:07 pm EST |
by FreeSeeker (Cape Town, RSA) - wc_xemail
Thanks everyone who sent copies of the article. No more please.
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| Ooooohhhh Boy... | Mar 12th. at 4:51:21 pm EST |
by Jesse (Indiana) - wc_xemail
You know what? Since many of us pagans are known to help out in the communities we live in and help charitites, why don't we start an organization dedicated to helping fundamentalist christians and the sef proclaimed occult experts? Now, before any of you scoff, hear me out. You see, this organization I have in mind would NOT help them misinform people. To be honest they need no help with that. But what it would help them do is get LIVES. So, what do you all say?
On a more serious note, I find it odd that fundamentalists and the so-called "experts" always seem to go after the wrong people when dealing with satanism. In all the cases I've seen, they almost never accuse the actual satanists. Most of the time it's pagans they point the finger at for everything. It also irks me that in the particular case in South Africa, not only are they mixing pagans and satanists up in one bag, they are pointing the finger at teens. Good Gods, as if teens don't get enough flack from adults the way it is. People like Jonker really do need to get lives.
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| Help - Can't Read Article | Mar 12th. at 3:47:35 pm EST |
by FreeSeeker (Cape Town, RSA) - wc_xemail
Everyone else seems to be able to read the article except me. I get a message 'Sorry - Access is exclusive to MWeb members'. I think MWeb discerns from my IP address that I am in South Africa and wants me to sign up for their ISP service (including free access to the Encyclopedia Brittanica worth R49.99 per month) .
Wren - Could you mail me the article, or would there a copyright issue in doing that?
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| Read The Rest Of The Stories | Mar 12th. at 3:47:02 pm EST |
by Lynette (VA) - wc_xemail
Go to the [Read Full Story] link then Search the site for "Satan". There are multiple stories about this case, each more illogical and appalling than the last. Satanic Panic run riot!
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| HMMMM................... | Mar 12th. at 3:28:12 pm EST |
by Lonegnome (Oregon) - wc_xemail
It sounds like Jonker needs to rethink being a self proclaimed expert. I find that most self proclaimed experts are experts on hot air. I'm sure that some of them do know what they're talking about, but Jonker? Hmmmmmmm, I just don't know, I'm not a Jonker expert.
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| Silvertree, I Wonder... | Mar 12th. at 2:07:04 pm EST |
by Sibylle (R.I., USA) - wc_xemail
Yes, I had a look at that article too and they state there: "Jonker said new recruits had to swear a blood oath and then had to take part in sex orgies - where rape was a common occurrence. The new members then had to attend a weekly worshipping ceremony." I wonder where do they get those information??? Had any of them ever paticipated in a ritual at all??? I realy realy doubt that... what a sad world we live in.
Farewell
Sibylle
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| Just Another "expert" | Mar 12th. at 11:34:34 am EST |
by Starwind (Sundre, Canada) - wc_xemail
Does Kerr Cuhulain have anything on this Jonker guy? He sounds just like all the rest of the Satanic Panic people.
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| I Wish | Mar 12th. at 11:20:53 am EST |
by VaporImage (Michigan) - wc_xemail - Web
The way all those "investigators" report things my life should be way more fun. All I want to know is where is my sex orgy? If my life were as interesting as these so called occult researchers say it should be then I would be able to write an exciting book about my life.
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| Related Article | Mar 12th. at 10:54:31 am EST |
by Silvertree (Newcastle, UK) - wc_xemail
This is the article I replied to in regards to the use of the word 'Satanist', it's obvious to me here that in *this* case they are talking about Devil worshippers and not in fact Satanists.
Teen Satanist cell found:
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0, 6119, 2-7-1442_1331728, 00.html
Dr Kobus Jonker was the 'expert' who was consulted for this article.
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| Now I'm Confused | Mar 12th. at 10:45:19 am EST |
by Old Gray Mouse (Sturbridge MA) - wc_xemail
We know that Satan personified was an invention of the Christian church. The ancient Jews had a satan (small s) but it was defined as a roadblock, an obstacle (the first speed bump?) . It was the Christians who put a face on Satan. Doesn't that mean that Satanists are really Christian? Why yes, mouse, it does mean that. Thank you for pointing that out. Then tell me why these Christians are saying everyone else is a Satanist? I don't know, mouse, I can't answer your question.
one confused mouse
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| Rick Ross | Mar 12th. at 10:43:15 am EST |
by Seshen (Texas) - wc_xemail
http://www.rickross.com
Rick Ross is an occult investigator who is much more well-rounded and informed; check out his site. Find More info -- HERE
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