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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 21178
[Religious]
Date Posted:
9/21/2009
4:45:10 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,162
RSS: 20,571
Comments: 15
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Satanists Recruit New Members In Small Ads
Author: Sunday Mail Source: Saunday Mail (UK)
Title: SATANISTS RECRUIT NEW MEMBERS IN SMALL ADS
Satanists are recruiting members in Scotland through an online classifieds site.
The devil worshippers, who preach from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible, hold regular meetings involving ritualistic sacrifice.
Their advert on Gumtree, which is accompanied by a picture of a goat with the devil's head, reads: "We are leaderless and nondenominational. We get together for discussion, food, drink, and ritual."
Kevin Carlyon, the High Priest of the White Witches, who practice positive thoughts and earth magic, warned members of the public to steer clear.
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Community Thoughts: There are 15 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Oh Good Grief | Sep 23rd. at 10:55:08 am EDT
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
They're asking 'King' Kevin Carlyon. What the heck does he know of Satanism? In fact what does he know of anything other than to get his face in the press and make the rest of us look like idiots.
As far as I'm aware this is essentially a non-story. Let's face it, the only people who are going actually pay much attention to these ads are either people who already want to be Satanists or fundamentalist Christians who are looking for something to whine about. (Fundies are very good at whining but not really good at anything else.)
Now I don't necessarily agree with Lavey's ideas of putting oneself as the being most worthy of one's attention. After all doesn't a person have to actually show why they are so great in order to justify their self image? (ISuch as I am great because...) There are times in one's life when somebody else's needs will come before one's own. (Parenthood is one of these times, at work is another.)
However they do have the right to their beliefs and I believe a right to fair and factual coverage in the press if they come up at all. (Of course the purpose of many British papers these days isn't to spread news but to get a reaction from their readership.)
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| Social Darwinism | Sep 23rd. at 9:32:12 am EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
I'm not being "hard" on Anton LeVay or his followers. The philosophy is, if anything, even more harsh than my brief summary. Anton LeVay engaged in countless interviews (he loved attention and the press) and I suggest a complete read of his book followed by watching his interviews. There is nothing I (or anyone else) can say about his philosophy that frames it better than the source. It is aggressive, self serving, vicious, and entirely proud to be so. The entire point is to take pride in these behaviors. That is the whole point of taking the mythical Satan as an archetype. This character personifies every attribute a follower of Anton LeVay's Satanism values.
Intellectually, I don't have a problem with the philosophy. I understand the logic of it and can find little fault. People who apply the philosophy as a lifestyle should, by in large, get ahead. Of course, what is good for the individual isn't always good for the family or society on the whole. I keep thinking of that movie "Wallstreet" with the famous line, "greed is good." That is what Satanists champion. I'm not putting words in their mouth. These are tenets of their faith/philosophy. I merely point out that the attitude and outlook of a Satanist (who applies Anton's philosophy fully) is the exact opposite of Wiccans and a rather large majority of those calling themselves Neo-Pagans. I am not a Wiccan myself, and many of my own beliefs and practices would horrify them, but at least I take the time to learn and fully undestand another faith/philosophy before choosing to endorse, befriend, or even attack it.
There are tenets that old Anton's philosophy has in common with mine. I don't turn the other cheek either. I'm big on the notion of vengence. I make no apologies for it. Where his Satanism diverges from my beliefs is the notion of doing unto others before they do unto me. It is the Satanist credo that the world is your oyster. You should take it. The weak get what they deserve. It champions individual freedom over all else and by any means, never once considering that this freedom can never be enjoyed by any but a select few. In other words, my freedom is more important than your freedom. If I prove stronger I have a divine right to it. And yet, the Satanists I know howl and complain when others (stronger than them) take something from them. Shouldn't they be complimenting this "other" force for being clever or stronger? This is the only fault I find in the philosophy. It cannot sustain. Human beings are products of evolution, but one must understand that "society" is part of that evolution. If it was against our nature, the world would not be dominated by them. Clearly there is a place for those attributes Satanists consider defects.
Going back to the original article, modern Satanists have only Anton LeVay to blame for the stigma and unfair myths about their philosophy. Their progenitor loved (as I said before) attention and the press. He could have called his philosophy anything and written it up exactly as he did. He could have chosen an archetype with all the same characteristics as the mythical Satan (there are lots of them) . He chose Satan because he knew it would get him attention. He called his book the Satanic Bible because he knew that would sell tomes. He knew (and banked on) that choosing such terms would come with baggage. He didn't care that later followers of his philosophy would pay the price of his choice. That too is part of his ideology. In this, LeVay and Gardner had a lot in common. Gardner was also shameless in his self promotion. He also chose the word "witch" and "witchcraft" for maximum effect. I think caveat emptor (an idea that Satanists like ironically) should be applied to any philosophy and faith. I think if the idiot White Witch had laid out an honest argument and discussed the Satanists beliefs and contrasted them with his/her own a sound argument of warning could have been made. Instead, as always, the Satanists got some free publicity out of some moron's incorrect statements.
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| I Don't Know . . . | Sep 22nd. at 11:24:27 pm EDT
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R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
I think you're being a bit hard on old Anton and some of his followers. The plain fact is that many neo-pagans ARE fools, perhaps no more or less than any other type of people on this planet. Dominance games and multiple forms of manipulation and people generally trying to get some advantage as opposed to none ARE commonplace human behaviors. Ever had a boss or a supervisor? A troublesome relationship? Come on now. I have little or no problem with most of LaVey's people. Two can tango, and they all know that. If they want to live in peace, they won't disturb me any more than I wish to disturb them. If I try and *** someone over, I've pretty much got it coming don't I? They pretty much believe in the golden rule too, which Jesus didn't invent by the way! At the end of the day, I think Satanists and all LHP types add an interesting color and texture to the world, and they are of course not Christians, which usually scores brownie points in my book. Like them I prefer strength over weakness, and correct thinking and ritual over religion. We all live in the real world most of the time, which in the most obvious ways imaginable is typically 'Darwinian.'
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| Truth In Advertising | Sep 22nd. at 1:46:20 pm EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
There are plenty of reasons for a self-styled "White Witch" to dislike the philosophy of Anton LeVay and the Satanists who follow and preach it. This particular version of Satanism is the purest form of Social Darwinism. It can best be summarized by saying it is a dog-eat-dog world and it is your job to be the top dog. It goes far beyond vengence. The credo is to do unto others before they do unto you. People are aggressve, selfish animals and that is how nature intends us to be. We should go with our natural impulses and take advantage of others because they will most certainly do that to us if we don't.
Unfortunately, this so-called White Witch wasn't honest (or perhaps he is just ignorant) and explain the philosophical differences between Wicca (and most Neo-Pagans) and Anton LeVay's Satanism. Instead, this man made a fool of himself and spewed up some inaccruate myths. It is an object lesson in and of itself that it was one of our peers under the pagan umbrella that spouted this nonsense. It demonstrates all too clearly that we (as a group) are certainly no different (or better) than any other group or grouping of faiths.
Anton LeVay's Satanism is not pagan. It isn't even a faith so much as a philosophy. It is humerous to note that old Anton himself views Christian Evangelists as "good" Satanists because they had power and control. That is what his Satanism is about, personal freedom and power that you "take" from others. I personally find LeVay's philosophy to be pessemistic , self serving and vile. Old Anton would agree with me and not see that as a problem. The irony is that many pagans think simply that because Satanists aren't liked by Christians either that they are our friends or allies. This isn't true. A rather large number of Satanists think Neo-Pagans are fools and easily manipulated. Go to a couple of their forums if you doubt it.
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| The Only Thing Worse . . . | Sep 22nd. at 1:43:18 pm EDT
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R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
. . . than contemplating the horrifically misguided reasoning of this great 'White Witch' is seeing it openly circulated in the Sunday Mail without retort. Nice job, journalists. No insight or filtration whatsoever, just wild talk for entertainment, right? But this will cause much trouble, and ALL of my sympathies go for these networking Satanists who in no way have been proven to be any threat to the community beyond the dark side of a tequila bottle. When I hear of horse mutilations and such I think of angry neighbors, or sociopathic teenagers and lager louts and such. Of course some very unsavory people are sometimes attracted to what THEY think Satanism is or SHOULD be about, and that's equally true of Wicca or even Christianity, for instance. So I will be the first to apologize if I'm wrong about these Scottish Laveyesque types, but I have actually read some of Lavey's writings and while he was of course intentionallyy controversial and obviously contrarian to the general drift of society, he was also spot-on in many of his criticisms, and also thoughtful, interesting, and philosophically sound. And very ethical! The only time I EVER worry about 'human sacrifice' is if the local DOC decides to farm psychopaths out on work release, or if gang initiations are underway. Or perhaps I should worry about some time machine that might force me back into key points of European history, or remote regions of the South Pacific in days of old. The Donner party?
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| Sacrifice? | Sep 22nd. at 12:36:52 pm EDT
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Rev Jorinx (Sioux City, Iowa) - Email Me - Web
I can zacrifice cheezburgr?
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| So-maybe They Should Use A Large Ad? | Sep 22nd. at 11:14:40 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Having read the satanic bible, it does not advocate sacrificing animals or people. however, when being attacked, It preaches self defense over forgiveness in certain conditions.
The problem with many "avowed" christian types, is that they believe that- asking forgiveness- after doing something wrong will exonerate them somehow, just like little kids, and that they can do whatever they want most of the time -and expect to be forgiven for it, even when they actively hurt other people and hurl invectives at other lifestyles and religions, and they are quick to condemn those others when they react to what was done to them in return.
I may not have followed their religion, but I still thank them for the courage to stand up for myself when I was first seeking my own path long ago.
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| Vengeance Over Turning The Other Cheek | Sep 22nd. at 10:31:59 am EDT
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stalkingwolf (Bullhead City, Arizona) - Email Me
There is something to be said for that. When every time you turn the other cheek you get kicked in the A++.
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| Never Heard Of This "Carlyon" Person Before... | Sep 22nd. at 6:51:50 am EDT
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Laura C. (Weston, Florida) - Email Me
but he sounds like a complete idiot.
And I really love the lies about Satanists practicing human sacrifice. I could have sworn that was all proven to be bunk after the SRA scare in the early 90's. I know I've certainly never heard any accusations of human sacrifice--against anyone--from sane people of any affiliation.
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| Advert For Satanists | Sep 22nd. at 2:37:15 am EDT
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Fiat Knox (Wrexham, Wales) - Email Me
Did they provide a URL? "No, Mister Addams, we don't know where they live."
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| Kevin Karlyon | Sep 22nd. at 12:40:50 am EDT
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Michael Thornton (Mesa, Arizona) - Email Me
Getting Kevin Karlyon to comment on your article adds instant credibility to any story... As long as you don't show him walking around in his stupid red bathrobe.
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| Ugh | Sep 21st. at 10:25:01 pm EDT
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TheStormofWar (Salt Lake City, Utah) - Email Me
Yonni must be blackmailing someone to remain in the press. I hate when people make blanket statements.
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| UGH! | Sep 21st. at 10:12:56 pm EDT
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Eric Redbear (Madison, Wisconsin) - Email Me
In ANY other news story the phrase "self-proclaimed" would be sprinkled liberally. If any time this phrase were more appropriate it is when Kevin Carlyon is brought into the conversation, yet it is conspicuously absent! How many of his predictions have failed to bear fruit, yet he still continues making them [remember that whole D.C. Sniper prediction that Malvo, whose name we did not yet know, would stop at 13 victims & be caught on Oct. 31st]? He lays low for awhile after he's proved wrong, yet again, then pops up long enough to embarrass the Pagan community over and over.
When will the madness stop?!?!
Maybe we can get Kevin & Fred Phelps into a Celebrity Death Match!
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| Exclusive! | Sep 21st. at 9:14:35 pm EDT
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Friday Scott (Middleton, Wisconsin) - Email Me
This just in:
Someone put an ad in the paper.
'Experts' fear badness.
And Kevin Karlyon opened his mouth!
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| ... | Sep 21st. at 7:39:31 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
Anything for that pushover Carlyon to gain more free press.
I lost what little respect I had for him when he willingly gave up his athame which he fought tooth and nail in the British courts to keep.
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