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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20837
[Civil]
Date Posted:
6/25/2009
10:45:05 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 10,015
RSS: 18,905
Comments: 10
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Calif. County Ordered To Let Church Use Library
Author: The Associated Press, Source: First Amendment Center Online
Title: CALIF. COUNTY ORDERED TO LET CHURCH USE LIBRARY
A federal judge has ordered a Contra Costa County library to open its doors to a religious group.
County officials had barred the Faith Center Church Evangelistic Ministries from meeting in the library’s Antioch branch because they said the group violated the library’s ban on religious services in its meetings rooms.
[U.S. District Judge Jeffrey] White found that the policy put library managers into an unconstitutional position of deciding what constitutes religious services when considering applications to use its meeting rooms, which are open to public use.
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Community Thoughts: There are 10 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Interesting. . . | Jun 26th. at 7:31:44 pm EDT
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Dynnys Derwydd (Lubbock, Texas) - Email Me
. . .yet lacking details. This should be considered a good sign though. How many Pagan groups, or even Pagan Pride Days, take place in city, county, state or federal parklands? Quite a few, and such a decision by a federal court would make it harder for municipalities & state governments to discriminate against Pagans who wish to use public property for meetings and celebrations.
Come on. . .doncha love it when Christians actually do something that benefits more than just themselves?
Gnothi Seauton
honi soit qui mal y pense,
Dynnys Derwydd
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| Disappointing, Yet Entertaining | Jun 25th. at 11:26:59 pm EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
I was hoping to read about **how** the "church" was denied use of the library meeting room. So disappointing to find no actual details on that.
The First Amendment Center is supposed to be dedicated to reporting on actual First Amendment violations on the part of GOVERNMENT. Yet here is an article -- a blurb, really -- which merely outlines the fact that a religious organization was denied use of a Public Library for its own private meetings, meetings which (given that the church is an "evangelical" church) in all likelihood would become rather noisy halleluia-fests. "Evangelical" churches are, after all, very well known for their rambunctiously emotional meetings.
Organizations such as the Sierra Club, Narcotics Anonymous are not the type of organizations whose meetings are known to devolve into the afore-mentioned halleluia-fests. And the noise levels at auditions for TV shows such as "American Idol" can be kept to a dull roar, since only ONE person at a time is allowed to sing (without musical accompaniment) -- not everyone at the same time as in a "church meeting".
So, where is the actual violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America? It looks to me like U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White is somewhat biased in favor of the evangelical church group, since he is the only one to have ruled in its favor. Note that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the church, and the U.S. Supreme refused to even consider the case.
But, as has been pointed out by others here already, this does open the door for Pagan and Wiccan groups to use Public Facilities such as library meeting rooms for their own "religious meetings". Now we all get to sit back and watch the drama unfold when U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White learns that he is responsible for it all, as well as when the Evangelical Christians find out that a bunch of "Satan worshippers" are allowed to conduct religious meetings in free-of-charge Public meeting rooms .
Say, could someone please pass the popcorn?
--nasionnaich
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| Easy Solution | Jun 25th. at 3:58:39 pm EDT
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Dana Corby (Anderson Island, Washington) - Email Me
In essence it is correct and JUST that if the library has a policy of allowing its meeting rooms to be used by any non-library groups, either for free or rental, then they have to allow equal access to ALL non-library groups who apply for the space and agree to follow the rules. This (inadvertently, but who cares?) opens the door for Pagan groups to have access to library meeting rooms where (like in Tacoma, WA) they've previously been discriminated against.
But as another poster here said, an evangelical service is by nature a noisy affair. They may be able to keep it down once or twice but I seriously doubt they could sustain it for long.
The library's policy about noise and other rules violations should be applied to church groups to exactly the same extent it is to other groups. Including Pagans. A library room, although an inexpensive and convenient place to meet, is not the right venue for every group.
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| Well, On A Positive Note, | Jun 25th. at 2:57:34 pm EDT
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Avagdu (Independence, Missouri) - Email Me
It does set a precedent for all religions, including the various Pagan religions.
Sometimes Christians, while seeking to serve their own needs, open the door for everyone. They may not have considered it but it does us all a favor.
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| Where To Put The Razor? | Jun 25th. at 2:02:41 pm EDT
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Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
"White found that the policy put library managers into an unconstitutional position of deciding what constitutes religious services when considering applications to use its meeting rooms, which are open to public use."
Any ministry would qualify as a religious service, if you read Musashi, certainly to include the custodial ministry of memorable voices, as in those temples known as Libraries.
If they can't remembrance such Pagan Gods as Jesus, how about Bucky Fuller, Helen Keller or George Washington?
It's not an unconstitutional authority, on the part of the librarians, but unconstitutionally vague. The religious practice of exclusive brotherhood might be prohibited, in a public venue, or the securing of a consecrated circle, but not the remembrance of Jesus as opposed to Santa Claus. Is someone going to use the facility for the religious celebration of Barack Obama, or Adolf Hitler; can such a distinction be made on Religious Ground?
Arawn Graalrd
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| Ridiculous Decision | Jun 25th. at 12:49:57 pm EDT
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John the Alchemist (Francestown, New Hampshire) - Email Me
The article is a bit lacking in detail but states that the situation "...put library managers into an unconstitutional position of deciding what constitutes religious services."
If it's unconstitutional for library managers to decide what constitutes a religious service on their premises, then, by extension, any public official would presumably not be able to decide any similar question in any other context. This would make church/state separation functionally impossible. Public officials would be unable to exclude any kind of religious observance from any public sphere because it would be 'unconstitutional' for them to make that decision. Only judges would be able to make the call after the appropriate lawsuit had been filed.
This would seem to have the effect of muzzling public officials and giving organised religion permission to ride roughshod over the constituion.
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| I Hope.. | Jun 25th. at 11:52:13 am EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
that library patrons can bring both ear plugs and enough Ibuprofin on those nights the church decides to proselyt-- I mean -have their meetings in the library.
I'm not as worried about libraries being bullied as I am about patrons being bullied and hounded should they be found in the wrong shelf areas.
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| Public Money For Private Use? | Jun 25th. at 11:50:35 am EDT
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AurRiaDa (Joshua Tree, California) - Email Me
Greetings!
As we all know, "Churches" are really private companies who don`t have to follow anti-discrimination laws, just like the "boy scouts" and other private organisations.
Some "Churches" are good, some not so much, and some really stink of bigotry, discrimination, and a habit of using community resources without compunction.
They should get their own place...not take resources away from others.
/!\
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| The First Amendment Works In All Directions. | Jun 25th. at 11:37:34 am EDT
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Ypsiroselee (Ann Arbor, Michigan) - Email Me
It's a very untenable place for that library to be.
I would hope that the church in question would honor noise regulations, and more importantly, avoid proselytizing the rest of the library's patrons.I also hope they (the church) know that they have no say in whether pagan groups can use the facilities. I also would hope they know that the library doesn't have to change any policies regarding assigning rooms. I am concerned that churches might try to bully the local libraries after this decision.
Is there some reason why this group cannot use another church's facilities?
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| ... | Jun 25th. at 11:09:20 am EDT
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Ellen (East Hartford, Connecticut) - Email Me
That means that we will be able to use the libraries and other public use buildings too! I just doubt if the evangelicals can comply with the noise restrictions.
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