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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19934
[Religious]
Date Posted:
8/19/2008
4:17:59 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 6,431
RSS: 10,893
Comments: 27
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Judge Not!
Author: Steve deClaissé-Walford Source: The Citizen (GA)
Title: JUDGE NOT!
Almost since its inception, much of Christianity has had a callous disregard for the principles Jesus taught. While there have been many true adherents who seemed to have grasped the moral principles Jesus illustrated, too many supposed Christians have read into the faith too much of their own prejudices. History is full of acts of the “faithful” far removed from the teachings of the New Testament.
Space does not allow a detailed reiteration here of the atrocities executed in the name of Christianity, but who is not familiar with the Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, or the religious persecutions of the Protestant revolution? All were performed under laws intended to legislate “righteousness” as understood by the various powers, which judged from their own religious perspective who and what was wrong and right.
It is fascinating to me how many Christians condemn these historical acts while promoting “legislated Christianity” today.
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Community Thoughts: There are 27 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Disturbing | Aug 21st. at 5:44:48 pm EDT
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Armida (Hull, Quebec) - Email Me
I find the hate-speech this article has generated to be very disturbing. Most of my family is Christian, as are many of my friends. I attend worship services with Christians every Sunday (yes, they know I`m a witch) , and I have even been to a Full Moon drum Circle with--you guessed it--Christians. The automatic vitriol launched against all Christians on this site is very bigotted and upsetting. I wonder if the same nastiness would have been unleashed had the article about judgement been authored by a Buddhist monk instead of a Christian minister. Somehow I think not. Shame.
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| A Simple But Adamant Statement | Aug 21st. at 1:58:18 am EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
As long as texts such as the Bible, Torah, Koran, etc. receive credit and more respect than any other works of fiction, we will continue to live in the dark ages of humanity and face the constant threat of a nuclear apocalypse from these groups who view this life as being nothing more than a test for where one spends eternity. As long as the "real life" of a believer begins on the "other side", we will all be forced to live with the very real possiblity that all life as we know it could be wiped out by our fellow humans. This is why, even though it's heartening to see a pastor embrace the goodness of Christianity and throw out the evil, it's still not enough. As long as when someone holds up the Bible as being the rational for why he believes complete nonsense and even we nonbelievers are expected to give that respect, we will continue the march towards our own doom. I hope that I'm wrong, but you all know that I'm not. Shalom.
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| Nobody's Perfect... | Aug 20th. at 4:43:32 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Frankly, I think the churches are wasting their time if the people who go to it don't really get the message. And a huge number do not. Moreover there are a number that deliberately mislead the people in thinking that what they are doing is right when they teach hateful things in the guise of "love".
They are a great many who go to church several times a week, but if they find someone or something that doesn't quite "fit", then they can be the most disparaging people one could ever meet.
These are the ones who need to discover what those messages they've been hearing really mean.
People always need to question their church leaders for their true motives-and themselves for following and why. And it's not just the churches alone. So much good has gone down the drain because of hatemongers of every stripe. It's nice to know that its not merely Pagans that are pointing that out. Some Christians are too.....
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| Hat's Off To Him | Aug 20th. at 3:33:37 pm EDT
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
Here is a Christian who actually knows what he is talking about. Now if only there were more people like him discussing Christianity instead of hatemongers like Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps and to a lesser extent the pastors of Channel 4's 'Make Me a Christian' (I was horrified by the lack of respect Rev George showed towards the participants and towards other religions)
I agree that if the aforementioned put half their energy into trying to end real social problems like poverty, homelessness and the gradual slip of the education system into an interlectual abyss then they might actually contribute something to society other than their own egos.
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| Good Column | Aug 20th. at 3:21:13 pm EDT
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foreverknightfan (Dardanelle, Arkansas) - Email Me
Actually that was a good column and was relevant for us at Witchvox. After all one of our concerns IS the self-righteousness judging certain Christians have on us and people different from them.
While I am no Bible scholar I do find what he said about Paul springing a trap on certain arrogant congregants to be something I've never heard before. I do remember the verse that says in essence do not judge for as you judge you will be judged.
And yes there are some Christians around who are not intolerant of us. Some of us, yo be honest, condemn all Christians for what the legalistic Dominionist self-righteous ones say and do. We rarely, if ever, hear any Christian stand up and disagree with folks like Dobson and their ilk. Anfd forget anything resembling tolerance on the radio talk shows.
The fact is Jesus did teach compassion, love and tolerance ( for his day) . After all he accepted women and Gentiles while his Jewish brethrin derided both. And show me one quote BY Jesus Christ against gays.
As I've said before if more Christians actually based their lives on what Jesus taught instead of finding verses to support their judging others, this would would be a much better place and they would be more persuasive to us " ungodly" people.
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| Equality.............. | Aug 20th. at 2:07:56 pm EDT
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Thorin (Newaygo, Michigan) - Email Me
While I feel that this new-site should be mostly for Pagan-related things, I do enjoy seeing this sort of article. For those who don't want to read it.....don't, and move on. Only know that when you put negativity out.....making nasty comments about "Xtians", all you do is give those who would an excuse to pick and poke at people who are not the same. We are not the BORG of Star Trek......humans have always had the choice to choose what form of the DIVINE we worship........some have just forgotten that.
Thorin
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| I Rest My Case | Aug 20th. at 12:26:23 pm EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
Fixation, obsession, and psychosis are all demonstrated in equal measure throughout various responses. We see this time and time again with any news article that comes on the nest. There is never anything but glittering generalities and vague statements when it comes to witche, Wiccans, Pagans, and/or Heathens, but if the topic is Christianity or Christians... you could fill books with the opinions and rhetoric. Pathetic.
What Christians believe and what they think of us is irrelevant. It has no bearing on our own personal searches for truth and spirituality. The lurid (and I do mean lurid) fascination so many of you have for a faith you claim not to venerate is unhealthy and belies the faiths you proclaim. The day I hear some of you talk about what you do believe in MORE than the Christianity you don't... I might be impressed. It is like listening to a broken record of hate and fear.
Even though I have no interest in this article, I'll address it. It comes as NO SHOCK. The fact that MOST Christians are not raving lunatics is well-known to anyone with critical thinking skills and a measure of sanity. If most Christians fit the "horror" description given here, we would not live in a country with free speech and exercise of religion. We would not have this Forum. We would not exist. The very fact that we do and haven't had to fight for it as blacks did just to be considered people, proves that religious tolerance among the majority faith here is alive and well. Most of the Christians I know share the same beliefs given in this article. They don't approve of other faiths but that is not the same as discrimiantion or persecution. This makes them tolerant.
This article isn't worthy (in m y not-so-humble opinion) of being here because:
1. It has nothing to do with witches, Wicca, Pagans, and/or Heathens.
2. It isn't news. The vast majority fo Christians I've met believe these things and I've seen these kind of sermons in print and person before. It isn't new so it isn't news.
3. Putting the article here panders to our persecution complex (undeserved) by pretending it is new and most Christians are the opposite.
I feel disgusted even being drawn into talking about Christians. I don't have any interest in them. But in truth, I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about our sick obsession with them. Recognize it is a fixation.
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| Believe As You Will | Aug 20th. at 11:21:17 am EDT
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Piano Tm (Miami, Florida) - Email Me
but dealing with the good must ultimately mean dealing with evil. If we ignore it, then we condone it. That is why we must never ignore anything, especially Christianity, which poses the greatest threat to us and to freedom.
Do not dismiss the Bible thumpers with the wave of a hand. The vicious fiend God who would have sinners devour the flesh of thier children is not dispelled so easily. This why we must read. This why we must remain in Sunday School. Know thy enemy.
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
And yes, while there are tolerant Christians, the intolerant ones are the ones in political control and we must view them as they view us: the enemy. If not, our revival, if you will, will not be long for this world.
The man in the article is a force for good and should rightly draw the attention of non-Christians.
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| Ahhh, Time To Cherry Pick With Pastor Steve | Aug 20th. at 3:12:07 am EDT
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Jenna (Cary, North Carolina) - Email Me
While I am extremely happy to see a Christian choosing the "nicer" verses in the Bible as his bedrock of philosophy, someone has to mention that Jesus wasn't all "sunshine and unicorms". He, if we are to believe the quotes attributed to him, also said that he came not to bring peace but the sword, that if a man did not love him more than his family he could not enter the kingdom of heaven, that divorce could only be granted in the cases of an adulterous woman (women had no right to EVER seek divorce under Biblical law, even if their spouse were to beat them and abuse the kids every night) , that if looking at someone made you lust after them you must pluck out your own eye, cursed trees for not bearing fruit in their off season, sent demons into herds of pigs when he could had simply made the vanish, to not be considered about money since God would provide all (tough luck for the banks,huh?) , etc. Shall I go on? Jesus wasn't the nice little hippie preach that we seems to picture today. His philosophy was as cruel and exclusionary as any crackpot preacher or iman's today.
So what needs to be done? We need, as a society, do away with the natural "carte blanche" faith has had in terms of presenting their "holy books" as evidence for their beliefs and as being the handbook by which we should all live. It's time to stop refering to their leaders as "Reverend", it's time to not allow them to introduce or to block laws based on something that some freak in the desert thought up a couple thousand years ago, and it's time to stop treating leaders of faith as if they have more of a voice and more insight into any issue more than we give the local garbage collector. Time to get real, people! Look for Bill Maher's new film "Religiulous" at a cinema near you! Stand together for reason!
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| ... | Aug 19th. at 10:16:06 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
Once again, I feel compelled to post this quote:
"Culture carries no priviledge to exist. Cultures do not have value simply because they are. Some cultures, the world is better off without. I submit, for your consideration, the Imperial Order." - Kahlan Amnell, Terry Goodkind's "Soul of the Fire"
But, hey, apparently my bad experiences with the apparently "all-wise xianists" don't mean a damn thing when it comes to flaky "New-New Agers" who want to open themselves up to a tried-and-true evil.
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| I Am Disturbed Too | Aug 19th. at 8:24:29 pm EDT
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Piano Tm (Miami, Florida) - Email Me
Invariably, you will find people that think that they should be carefully sheltered from worldviews that in direct line with their own in each community. Ultimately, we are in the world and we are going to have to deal with other people. Ignoring the views and opinions of others is a fool's errand of the most grievious kind.
People who shut themselves out from the world around them are employing the tried formula of fundamentalism and bigotry. To ignore the wisdom of others likewise demonstrates a lack of spiritual growth. One should read from every book of wisdom that that crosses his or her path. One that refuses to do so deliberately closes his or her mind to wisdom and enlightenment.
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| Well Maybe | Aug 19th. at 8:10:55 pm EDT
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Dennis Deal (Nazareth, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
This could be a step towards pagans and christians being able to have a dialog in a civilized professional manner.
Though this pastor will have a long road ahead of him to prove that he can get any of his parshioners let alone any other christian.
However if he can do this proves to be a shift in how christian actually treat their neighbors. Maybe we can start working together on issues that confront all of us.
I wish him well and luck.. He is going to need it.
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| ... | Aug 19th. at 7:03:22 pm EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
If the xianists would actually live by the phrases "judge not" and "thou shalt not kill," they might actually be somewhat reasonable.
But I'll first wait on my personal space rocket that's powered by happy thoughts and unicorn farts.
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| I Am Distubed | Aug 19th. at 6:37:10 pm EDT
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Silverfang (St. Clair Shores, Michigan) - Email Me
that some of the opinions posted here have so casual a disreagard for this man's opinions. Some even go towards saying that non-Pagan news shouldn't be posted on WitchVox. Yet we say that we should be given respect and that people should listen to us as Pagans. If we show no respect towards anyone else's religions we deserve none in return.
Thanks for posting the article, it's always good to hear something well written and thoughtful. Maybe people should look at that instead of jumping to conclusions just because it focuses more on Christianity than Paganism. All religions are important, not just the ones we, as individuals, practice. Being well informed on matters outside your religion is a good thing. Just think, this gives us examples to use when people begin to judge us.
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| WHEN WAS.... | Aug 19th. at 6:32:06 pm EDT
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
the last time the xtian "gawd" FOLLOWED EVEN ONE OF HIS OWN RULES???? I think he should heed his own advice:
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED.
I've heard it said that it's EASY to pass judgement on someone else when it doesn't affect YOU personally.
I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I hope some day the Threefold Law up and bites the christian "god" right in the buttside. Maybe if there was a little less "judging" and a little more COMPASSION, things would be a lot better....
Love to all
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