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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19827
[Pagan]
Date Posted:
7/9/2008
6:31:37 pm EDT
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Views: 6,863
RSS: 11,882
Comments: 18
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Pagan Images Neither Graffiti Nor A Sign
Author: The Register's Editorial Source: The Des Moines Register (IA)
Title: PAGAN IMAGES NEITHER GRAFFITI NOR A SIGN
Give Ryle MacPebbles credit for standing up to local officials in defense of his right of religious expression. But, also give the city of Des Moines credit for rethinking its graffiti ordinance and avoiding an unnecessary First Amendment battle.
Acting on a neighbor's complaint, the city ordered MacPebbles to remove symbols he had painted on a fence bordering his yard on Des Moines' south side. The city declared them to be graffiti, in violation of a city ordinance, and said they had to go.
MacPebbles protested the order, contending the images on his fence were symbols of his pagan religion, and as such not only did not fit the definition of graffiti but are protected by the First Amendment.
The city, upon reflection, conceded the point and dropped the removal order.
Too bad the story didn't end there.
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Community Thoughts: There are 18 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Ugh. | Jul 12th. at 4:54:50 pm EDT
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Elistra (Lexington, Kentucky) - Email Me
Frankly, I think this guy is one of those tiresome, immature people who uses paganism as a vehicle to piss people off, give the finger to society, and "stick it to the man" than as an honest religious expression.
Ask yourself this:
1) If those symbols are meant for his own edification, or perhaps meant to denote the backyard as sacred space, then why are they facing outwards, rather than being painted on *his own* side of the fence?
2) If he means to show respect for the gods in such a manner, why are the symbols painted in such a tacky, ameteurish, and unsightly way? Random gang symbols scrawled on inner city walls are high art, by comparison. It's just sad.
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| I Have To Agree With Another Poster Here... | Jul 11th. at 6:58:58 pm EDT
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Batman (Madison, Wisconsin) - Email Me
...that what ever happened to TASTE? It most certainly is within this gentleman's right to look like total white trash if he so chooses, but he shouldn't expect anyone to come to his rescue if he cries a river when he begins to drown. Sorry. You should've realized the repercussions of your own actions. Don't we as Pagans say whatever we sent out comes back times 3? At the very least, make it look presentable. Have some style for cripes sake. I mean, even the Celts decorated their stuff, they didn't just scrawl something, they made it look like artful, and yes I know that this is relative, but for those that've seen the pictures, let's face it - it looks like hell. If he's willing to fork out the $35, then go to a professional sign maker and do his symbols justice.
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| Tolerance | Jul 11th. at 6:36:37 pm EDT
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Nyxie (Marietta, Georgia) - Email Me
If you read the other article on this site about how this feud started, you'd find out that the only reason MacPebbles started doing this is because he thought his neighbor was peeking through her curtains at him.
She didn't harass him. She didn't go through his mail. She didn't leave nasty messages. I'm pretty sure if she'd done any of that, he would have said something about it.
She was peeking through her curtains at him. That was it. It didn't even sound as if she were being malicious, it sounds as if anything, she was just really curious. The TRULY nosy and malicious do a hell of a lot more than peek through curtains, trust you me.
Am I saying she was right? No, peeking through curtains at neighbors is pretty freakin' rude, regardless of intention. I had it done to me for a few years and it was exasperating. Did it make me go out and spend almost a grand on surveillance equipment so I could spy on them instead? Heck no. If this were two pagans, or two xians, anyone would find this guy to be going way too far. But instead we're applauding him as if his harassing someone is doing something great.
Tolerance, man. Be the bigger person. If more people did that the world would be a better place. Stop the hate, I've seen way too many Pagans be as nastily fundie as the evangelical xians, and that's just not where we need to go.
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| Ok Call Me Bias | Jul 11th. at 2:44:55 pm EDT
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Victor (Batesville, Arkansas) - Email Me
Maybe because I lived in the Bario as a child...and as a white child at that...I look at his fence and I don't see graffiti. It doesn't have the form of it. Graffiti is used to mark terriotory or send out warnings (usually death threats) . Thus, three well placed and balanced sigils to me do not look like the graffiti I grew up with. Also, if his neighbor doesn't like it...tear tear?! Seriously, I think painted houses 90% of the time look tacky..but I'm not going to try and conform my neighbors who want that on their houses.
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| Is Being Tasteful Out Of The Question? | Jul 11th. at 1:47:50 pm EDT
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Morgan (Phoenix, Arizona) - Email Me
Did everyone take a look at his fence? It DOES look like graffiti.
I would understand if he had taken some time and made his symbols look nice, but instead he spray painted them onto his fence in haste.
If he were MY neighbor, I would be annoyed that his fence looked so trashy.
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| What's Wrong With This Picture? | Jul 11th. at 1:36:45 pm EDT
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Nyxie (Marietta, Georgia) - Email Me
This guy is behaving terribly and is acting completely against the ethics of most neo-pagan paths. Since when is it ok to keep a camera focused on your neighbor's driveway just to spite and aggravate them? And that ridiculous fence... I'm not even going to get into that.
Since when does law trump basic decency and respect? We talk about wanting to be treated with respect and consideration, but guess what: sometimes you have to give BETTER than you receive. Just because some lonely old lady keeps peeking through her curtains isn't a free ticket to act as foolishly and as spitefully as you want.
Whatever happened to sympathy and understanding? Even if he didn't like this lady, all he had to do was put up his fence and leave it at that.
As for the community... I'm glad there are some that have pointed out that this guy has crossed many lines, and disheartened by the comments others leave applauding him. Please guys... don't get so caught up in the "Pagan" lable in this story that you ignore what REALLY matters, and that's how we act towards, love and respect our fellow man, despite our flaws and foibles.
I feel sorry for this guy. All that anger and spitefulness is not coming from a happy, balanced or well-adjusted place, and I hope somehow he finds a measure of peace.
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| Will All Religous Symbols Be Treated Equally | Jul 11th. at 7:31:18 am EDT
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tom p douglas (grundy center, Iowa) - Email Me
Des Moines charges a sign fee for a petagram. Will it do the same for other reigion's symbols?
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| Manners & Free Speech | Jul 10th. at 5:59:19 pm EDT
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Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
I want to start by saying I think the guy has every right to be as obnoxious and rude back to his neighbor as he wants. He certainly has the right to plaster his fence, house, or whatever with anything he wants as long as it meets the muster of law and he didn't sign any agreements for his community when he moved in. This isn't a gray area. Free speech is free speech.
His manners are as bad as his neighbor. I don't care how bad a neighbor she is, he didn't help the situation. Let's follow this out to its logical conclusion. What if she puts up a taller fence and covers it with Christian messages, passages from the bible like "not suffering a witch to live," and nasty, tacky crosses? How would we feel about that? How would we feel about it if this story was about some poor Pagan complaining about a neighbor putting up a fence facing his house with a bunch of that crap on it? I think the reactions would have been different.
I don't know anything about this woman or man. What little I do know about them makes me feel somewhat unimpressed by both. They sound like they both have bad manners, are bad neighbors, and managed to drag Pagans into their personal fight. I think it sets a bad precedent and is likely to inspire the worst kind of Christians to do exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. It would, after all, be perfectly legal.
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| ?????????? | Jul 10th. at 5:37:37 pm EDT
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Ardeith Carter (Zephyrhills, Florida) - Email Me
How did he paint the outside of the fence, in the first place? If it was on the property line, he must have had to stand on the neighbor's property to apply the paint.......wonder if he had the neighbor's permission to do that.
Or maybe he painted the boards, then put them up?
Just wondering....
Ardy
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| (none) | Jul 10th. at 12:40:02 pm EDT
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Llunmere (Germantown Hills, Illinois) - Email Me
Furthermore, if the neighbors didn't like it, they could erect a fence on their property, plant a bush or shrub, to conceal the "offending mark".
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| (none) | Jul 10th. at 12:37:56 pm EDT
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Llunmere (Germantown Hills, Illinois) - Email Me
Bottom line is that the fence is his property. It isn't vandalism unless he's destroying someone else's property. It isn't obscene or profane, so the city should kindly f*ck off.
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| Well Now, Children... | Jul 10th. at 11:54:28 am EDT
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
Well, I'm glad that the city seems to have removed itself from the schoolyard spat between neighbors. Because, IMO anyway, this is more about a neighbor vendetta than about religion, expression, or the First Amendment.
It's really too bad that city gov't has to waste its time on neighborly nose-thumbing contests. But, in a way anyway, I guess that's what city gov't is for-- making people get along when they can't, or won't, figure out how to do it themselves.
That's sad.
But every cloud has a silver lining.
"[The city's enforcement officers] say they will now have to make the call on a case-by-case basis, and will retain the option of enforcing the anti-graffiti ordinance against gang symbols, regardless of whether they contain religious symbols."
If that's the best thing that comes out of this mess, that's enough. Treating almost any crime or potential crime on a case-by-case basis is, agian IMO, what should be done everywhere and all the time.
If only gov'ts and law enforcement weren't generally too flippin' busy (we won't get started on too effing corrupt) to do that consistently and well.
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| An Old Proverb... | Jul 9th. at 11:57:24 pm EDT
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Keyra (Plano, Texas) - Email Me
There is an old proverb that states, "Good fences make good neighbors"; however, there is a certain line that shouldn't be crossed.
McPebbles, I feel, crossed that line.
My father, while living in Pennsylvania, had a neighbor that was anything but enjoyable. After a single time of my father offering to be a good neighbor and mowing the lawn that separates the two properties, so as to ensure that the lawn remained at an equal height (this is, after all, what good neighbors do in other parts of the country, of which my father was from) , that neighbor came over and angrily showed my father where his property was and my father's began.
So, my father didn't mow there anymore. But it didn't stop there. The neighbor began a crusade against my father. The trees along the property line were suddenly "encrouching" (sic) upon his land. Suddenly there was a lawsuit filed. My father won it as there was not a current survey between the two properties. But the neighbor still pressed the issue. He began cutting the trees back on "his" side, to the point that two of the trees died. He installed video cameras looking directly onto my father's property. This time, it was my father who filed suit.
He won.
So, the neighbor strung first a rope, with "No Trespassing" signs on it facing toward my father's property, and later a cable...barely above ground height. This became a safety hazard and he was ordered to remove it.
Once a proper surveying of the land was finally accomplished, it was learned that the trees were directly on the property line. The neighbor then proceeded to cut them all down and put up more cameras and flood lights on top of that.
Well, my father had had enough. He obtained a permit to erect a fence. While it was being built, the neighbor called the police, demanding that it be halted. Fortune didn't favor the foolish - my father was a dispatcher for the police department ("oops" number one) , and the fence was clearly on my father's property, and he had the proper permits.
So, in this instance, I can side with McPebbles...but the painting of the symbols on the opposite side was not simply a matter of ensuring that no negative energies would emanate from a nosy neighbor. They were clearly out of spite. If he had truly wanted to ensure that no negativity would transpire, he would have simply marked it ethereally, buried a Witch bottle, traced the boundaries, or any of a dozen other means, as I did with my father's fence, invoking Bast and Anubis to protect my father's pets and tracing the boundaries with my sword on the waning moon.
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| Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind..... | Jul 9th. at 11:58:20 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
well, it is something of a victory, but one can bet it won't be encouraged by the City anytime soon.
If the fence was firmly on his property and not straddling the property line at any point, then his neighbor can do nothing about his fence except complain about the lack of aesthetics, and since they are on there with his permission and approval, the city can't come in either, since it poses no real threat or verbal abuse toward those who view it.
My advice to the griping neighbor? Plant something in her yard that blocks her view of the offending fence in a tasteful fashion. If it's in her yard, he can't complain either. In fact, I doubt he would.
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| What's Fair Is Fair | Jul 9th. at 8:37:36 pm EDT
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Dana Corby (Anderson Island, Washington) - Email Me
Since MacPebbles had to spend the money to erect a fence on his side of the line, it's only fair that his neighbor can spend the money to plant big bushes on her side so she doesn't have to look at the runes.
But its still a shame that he couldn't resist making a fence into a 'spite fence.' Both of them need to grow up.
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