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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 10992
[Schools/Ed]
Date Posted:
9/13/2004
2:42:33 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 13,991
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Comments: 36
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Teacher In Trouble For Ripping Bible
Author: AP Source: The Denver Channel
Title: TEACHER IN TROUBLE FOR RIPPING BIBLE
  An Idaho English teacher is in trouble for ripping up a Bible in class.
Burley High's Karen Christenson said she was trying to illustrate a point about censorship, as her sophomore students read Ray Bradbury's novel "Fahrenheit 451," which is set in a future society that commands all literature be burned.
Christenson was disciplined but officials would not say what action was being taken against her.
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Community Thoughts: There are 36 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| This Is Blown Way Out Of Proportion | Sep 15th. at 7:32:14 pm EDT |
by Loveable Goddess (Jax, FL) - wc_xemail
Lets think...If she ripped up a witch's bible everyone would officially fall in love with her.But if we do something to offended them Christians oh my goddess its so wrong!Give me a break please.She was trying to teach a class.This was probally a christian blowing it up to seem bigger then it is.
Please leave this lady alone.She has done nothing but rip the bible of Christian religion.its just a bunch of crudd.Half of the bible was written by man anyways!
So what the deaL?
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| Missing The Point | Sep 15th. at 11:25:37 am EDT |
by AngelWind (Idaho) - wc_xemail
Like it's been repeated on here, those who cry out foul on the book she used... with all due respect, really need to get a life.
If she had used any other book, the students would have yawned. I know I would have. Here in Mormon country (Idaho is a real good substitute for Utah...Mountain Home where I'm from was basically 95% mormon...we also had a seminary across from the high school) it is really hard to do anything that makes the kids think because they're comfortable that at least most of the people they meet will be of the same mindset they are. Same minds make for dull thinkers.
To be that daring took guts to make her point, and hopefully some of those kids will think about what her point was and do some thinking for themselves for once.
Heck, we complain at least daily on here on how much we hate that some people in the government are trying to adopt Christian values for the US populous. Roy Moore, for example. I'm sure they consider the removeal of the 10 commandments and crosses and whatnot a form of censorship. IMO, it is, but we only conclude that it's "right" because of the interpretations of the first amendment. It's especially important when it's a "just us and no one else attitude" in response of what the "majority" wants.
Maybe this class will (in the hope of the future) make at least one kid think the next time they see that a religion or something they don't agree with is being blocked by the "moral majority" and think, "Gee, I know I would hate for that to happen to me. I better speak up and help protect those who are being censored on their beliefs only so that maybe one day those same people can protect me as well." We have to look out for each other, not be against ourselves.
If she had done this in a junior high or grade school, I would've had a problem with it. But this was a high school (and sophomores) , with minds supposedly getting ready for college or the real world. If they can't handle or prepare for this kind of extreme thought now, they're going to have real problems in the real world where they won't have anywhere to complain if someone does more than just rip the bible.
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| Censorship & Punishment | Sep 14th. at 2:32:35 pm EDT |
by DragonRider (NW US) - wc_xemail
Yes, a teacher has guidelines as was previously mentioned. However, many schools allow great lattitude in what instruments a teacher may use...colored chalk, powerpoint, slides, etc. If her lesson was all ready on censorship, then all she did was use a prop - regardless of what book it was specifically.
The statement about the separation of church & state is irrelevant in this instance. The teacher did NOT proselytize nor attempt to bring a religious discussion into the fray. She simply tore a book. This, in itself, is NOT a violation of church and state. If she had done it as a statement of her religious beliefs then that would be a violation. But it was done a demonstration of censorship - not religion.
Whether or not it offended someone, based on the particular book is a different and separate issue. Based on the recent passage of the "Expanded Protection for Religion" in Florida earlier, this can become rather interesting.
Finally, unless there are written guidelines the school has regarding the use of props/teaching accessories, the teacher may have a legitimate complaint if she is punished for using a bible vs another book.
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| Hooray For Mrs. Christenson!!!! | Sep 14th. at 2:32:25 pm EDT |
by Red maeve (The Wilds of New Mexico) - wc_xemail
I went to Burley High School fifteen years ago, and I can tell you that if that had happened then she would have been burned at the stake. However....
The only reason she tore up a Bible is because I guarantee at least 3/4 of the kids in class were Mormon (so is Mrs. Christenson. My Mom knows her) . If she had used the Book of Mormon, she would been fired on the spot. Only Mormon children study the Bible. By the time you're in high school, you're supposed to be studying the Book of Mormon. Mormons won't admit it publicly, but the BOM is MUCH more important and sacred to them than the Bible is, which is why some people don't consider them true Christians.
This incident probably won't bring attention to fact that the schools there violate the constitution daily, but it should. The schools there have a Mormon seminary on the property, and the Mormon kids go to seminary as an elective. They don't get a grade for it, but non-Mormon kids like me had to take another class that gave grades (Which means you could flunk, and you had to have more credits to graduate than they did) . It is very unfair and very unconstitutional!!!!
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| Point Will Be Illustrated | Sep 14th. at 1:37:08 pm EDT |
by Starlight Bunnybutt (FL, USA) - wc_xemail - Web
No doubt this teacher's point about censorship will be well illustrated later as she gets severely punished for exercising her rights to freedom of expression. It's only a shame that the students in her class will probably not learn any lessons from it.
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| She Does Not Have The Right | Sep 14th. at 12:54:32 pm EDT |
by Aleada Aine (St. Petersburg, Florida) - wc_xemail - Web
As a teacher she has guidelines from her school and district. She cannot teach whatever she wishes or however she wants. If she is a public school teacher she has an obligation to keep Church and State separated. The fact that she desecrated a religious object that many hold sacred makes this an objectionable act and one which would make it allowable to fire her for. I don't condone firing her but just because it is not an illegal act does not make it allowable. As with a corporation an Educational Institution has guidelines to follow set up by the board. Drinking is legal unless you drive or are drunk or disorderly in public but a corporation or school can fire you for this if you show up to work after obviously drinking or even with alcohol on your breath, there are guidelines in business and expectations, she clearly was disrespectful of many of her students and should be reprimanded. Aleada
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| Teachers Should Be Smarter . . . | Sep 14th. at 12:32:09 pm EDT |
by Tim (The desert) - wc_xemail
This was, to many, equal to flag burning. One does not just destroy what another claims as sacred without expecting repercussions. This teacher is being given a painful reality check that will hopefully teach her not to tread on other's faith and emotions.
And for those of you who continue to tout the constitution as being supportive of this kind of thing, think again. I'm sure you'd find the authors of that document shocked to know that a teacher would go over the line to destroy what many of them considered to be an inspiration of the highest order.
Like us all, this teacher has been bruised, but not beaten by this little life experience. Let's hope it enhances her career.
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| One Down... | Sep 14th. at 11:21:50 am EDT |
by Carla (u.s.) - wc_xemail
How many more to go?
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| Hello... | Sep 14th. at 11:14:03 am EDT |
by Susan (Northern Arizona) - wc_xemail
It's WORDS ON PAPER!!! Nothing more, nothing less--if the Christians' God's word ETERNAL then it shouldn't matter a tinkers dam if it gets torn up!
Some people's kids...
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| Get A Grip!! | Sep 14th. at 11:10:15 am EDT |
by DragonRider (NW US) - wc_xemail
If it was HER bible - who gives a damn what she does with it. It is hers. If it was a students, who did not consent, then it is a different issue.
If you don't like to destroy a book, that is your choice - obviously not hers.
The teacher made a point - get over it!!!
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| A Deeper Issue | Sep 14th. at 11:08:31 am EDT |
by Stark Raven (Nashville, TN) - wc_xemail
I think that there is an aspect of this incident that you are all missing. Some have said that there is no law against destroying a bible and that's true. Some have said that she should have torn up a Harry Potter book or something equally as "tame" and non-controversial and that, in my opinion, is just bull. Think about it this way: Public schools are government facilities. They are supposed to be religiously neutral in all respects as dictated by the First Amendment. So, it follows that in the context of this woman's actions, it should not have mattered at all if she tore up a bible or torched a copy of Harry Potter. No law was broken and the fact that it was a religious text shouldn't matter one bit in the eyes of the administration. *They have to be neutral in regards to religion or lack thereof.* The fact that they chose to persecute this teacher based solely on the book she used in her demonstration of censorship shows that, while she broke no law, they most certainly did. They violated their oaths as public officials to uphold the US Constitution. That is the real issue here, not whether or not you or anyone else is offended at seeing any group's holy text destroyed. The First Amendment was not put into place to protect your or my frail sensibilities, but to insure all of our freedom of religion and expression. As long as no law is broken, they can be as offended as they want, but they do not have the right to take any adverse action what-so-ever against this teacher. Period. Not unless they would have taken the same action if it had been a secular book and we all know that they would not have. That is the part that bothers me the most, because with people like that in power, it could very well come to pass that there *will* be laws against destoying a bible. It could also follow that there could be laws requiring the destuction of anything, or maybe even anyone, that the bible says is wrong. Think about that before you get the tar and feathers ready for this poor woman that was only doing her job and, in my opinion, doing it well.
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| Why Not Kerosene | Sep 14th. at 1:49:45 am EDT |
by Terry (VA (where bibles are technically obscene)) - wc_xemail
Given the context, including a bible makes a lot of sense. It's too bad this teacher didn't arrange a kerosene fire, even if that required arranging use of a science lab or outdoor space. Had she done so, she could have more easily made an example of how a variety of works would be censored from existence at once. Adding that incitement to bloody violence, the Declaration of Independence, and a cum glued porn mag to the fire might have done better getting the point across.
Just like with controversial art in galleries, the point is that material gets censored because some people are engaging in cowardly hate speech by oppressing ideas valuable to others. The point would have been missed had this teacher not reached students with that emotion. It's too bad their parents are too clueless or irresponsible to reinforce the lesson to their children, rather than having hissy fits complaining about such an important life lesson.
I wonder what it would take for these kids to grasp how perverse and obscene that bible was, by standards of their own morality predator preachers, where such predators above the "honesty of a crack whore" (w/ tribute to Trey Parker & South Park) . OTOH, can they show equal concern when historic cliff sized statues of Buddha are demolished by the Taliban?
It's far more likely Rocky Racoon will run around passing out more Giddeon's Bibles, than for those statues to grow back.
.
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| She Did Nothing Wrong | Sep 14th. at 12:38:40 am EDT |
by Nicole (Mass) - wc_xemail
She was not trying to be offensive. She was not spitting on anyone's beliefs. She was trying to get her students to think. The idea that she could've accomplished this using a fictional (albeit popular) novel such as Harry Potter, or the sacred text of a religion few to none of her students adhere to such as the Koran or the Satanic Bible, is ridiculous. It would never have had the same effect; people read Harry Potter for entertainment value but don't have the same sort of attachment for it, and the Koran or Satanic Bible may have no meaning to them at all.
Personally I don't think books should ever be destroyed. Not even the Bible, but not because I think its any better a book than Harry Potter is and deserving of some sort of special treatment; when you get right down to it the Bible is just a book like any other book, it has no inherient value except that which other people attach to it. (before anyone accuses this is not some anti-Christian bias, I would say the same of any Pagan book as well) .
But whatever I think aside, I understand why she did this. And I think it was brilliant, she couldn't have illustrated her point better. If she could get her students thinking and talking about this as much as she has the non-Christians here, she shouldn't be fired she should be commended.
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| Point Well-made... | Sep 14th. at 12:08:23 am EDT |
by Guido Paganos (Pennsylvania, USA) - wc_xemail
...pass me a copy of Broomstick or a Buckland's big blue book.
The point, my fickle friends and fellow pagans is that she wanted to illustrate the real evils that are present in a climate where censorship of ideas would otherwise prevent and keep from us those wonderful passages, ideas, lessons, and knowledge contained in the censored materials.
So, I do NOT have one iota of a problem with this woman doing what she did as a practical and real point to be made to her students to bring to utter reality what censorship can really look like in a base form.
Mind you, I don't have any intention of ripping up my pagan book library or my Kincade big Bible but really what if the powers that be on any side of some issue or national policy was aimed at doing just what this woman did to ALL bibles, or pagan books of study.
I think you all missed the point of it and those who are glad she got reprimanded need to grow a set and stop being so damn PC about stirring up peoples' sensitivities or "sacred cows" from time to time.
If you let something so "precious" be left untouched and held from such usage from time to time, then why that object or book is important and "precious" becomes less to people over time. Especially those who are callous about such texts already.
It is NOT the people who support our position or lack of censorship that we need to be aware of and their motivation, but those who would want it turned under and forgotten entirely for all time.
Idaho may be nearly a solid George W. locked state but they still come through and have some sense now and then in their citizens, like this teacher.
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| I'm Sure | Sep 14th. at 12:06:02 am EDT |
by Celesta Rain (MN) - wc_xemail
her intenetions were...good, but I just get the willies thinking about someone tearing up a sacred book. I mean I don't care if it's the Bible, the Koran, The Pentatuch or a Satanic Bible; it's disrespectful. I mean there are people out there who find that every Bible out there no matter how old or new it is, is the sacred word of God written within, and even though the teachers' point was about censorship, and lordie know's we DO have a problem with it these days, man, it's just not right. I agree with the concept of ripping up a Harry Potter book; although it's a waste of a perfectly good book, the series has a HISTORY of being Censored and all that. So yea, I think Harry Potter would be a better illustration, but like I said, I don't like the idea of any books being torn up; it's a waste of a perfectly good book.
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