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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20237
[Civil]
Date Posted:
12/4/2008
10:48:42 am EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,191
RSS: 17,512
Comments: 9
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Decorations Beyond The Tree
Author: Daily Vidette Editorial Board Source: Daily Vidette (U. of Illinois)
Title: DECORATIONS BEYOND THE TREE
"Away in a manger no crib for a bed, the little lord Jesus laid down his sweet head."
Unfortunately for the little lord Jesus, his manger was placed in the Illinois Capitol, where it could draw criticism on many fronts.
On the one hand, protests and demonstrations are allowed at the Capitol. Displays such as this, which use freedom of expression, are clearly allowed within the grounds of the capitol building.
On the other hand, the Constitution states that the governments of the United States will be separated from religious connections.
Putting a nativity scene inside of a government building runs completely against that idea. In fact, it is a blatant attempt at mixing religion and government.
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Community Thoughts: There are 9 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Important Questions | Dec 5th. at 4:33:49 pm EST
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Terry (Irvington, Virginia) - Email Me
This article raises some important questions, that could invite far more expansive consideration, as to the consequences of de facto discrimination or other conflicts once any public forum is opened in this type of public space.
The major paradox of accommodating some religions by having a permit based shared space is that many religions or religious people don't belief in public pandering of religion in the first place, including Christians who actually honor their bibles, many Native Americans, et al. This type of forum cannot give equal treatment to individuals or small groups lacking the resources to do paperwork trails on top of making exhibitions, if they'd even choose to do so. There also tends to be strong censorship of skyclad practices, and sex-positive religions, especially ones like Kali worship by FemDom BDSM practices based Service of Mankind Church, found at www.darkside-goddess.org
Another set of issues this article skips is whether once religious "strict scrutiny" test entitled speech is allowed, does that invite the parallel as to 1st Amendment issues realms of political speech, including calls for impeachment or defense against domestic enemies Constitutional extermination of select political figures? How about calls to refuse and resist military recruitment and illegal wars, especially if timed to coincide with veterans' events? How about art, politics, or religion based criticism of abusive churches or their practices?
If only locally popular speech is present, it raises serious questions of Constitutional circumvention, whether by procedural means or other biased standards or practices. Once dominant lens approved strict scrutiny entitled private speech is hosted in public places, that also requires speech equivalent to Paul Robert Cohen's infamous Nam era jacket in the LA courthouse, in flavor du jour of "Fvck All This Sh!t !", directed at politics, religion, or other positions some visitors hold dear.
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| What I Get From The Article | Dec 5th. at 11:08:16 am EST
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Ursyl (Murrysville, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
is that some group jumped through the necessary hoops in order to be allowed to express their thoughts in this manner.
Nothing is stopping some other group, a Pagan one for instance, from doing the same and displaying what symbol they would deem appropriate for the season. An atheist organization could do so as well.
The problem I can see perhaps occurring would be if the other groups' requests were denied.
At that point, the government there would have crossed the line into endorsement of one religion by denying equality to others or just free speech in general. THAT would be the problem.
I hope some local groups step up and exercise their rights.
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| ... | Dec 5th. at 9:48:39 am EST
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
To clarify, it's about both the letter and the spirit of the law. Either include EVERY religious display on public land or none at all. Public funds used to support displays of xian mythology on public land constitutes an illegal government endorsement of bizarro-world xian mythology.
But hey, at least the government doesn't send tanks after us if we speak out against its often-illegal practices.
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| It Is Always Surprising... | Dec 5th. at 8:14:46 am EST
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MariaElena (Beijing, China) - Email Me
to me how many people seem to be affected by Christian symbols. As far as I know Christmas is a Christian holiday... hence the name. Being annoyed to see a nativity scene on Christmas is like being annoyed to hear French in Paris.
I didn't read that there was a sign attached to the nativity scene that stated "no pentagrams"...
America grants us all to celebrate in our own way. Pagans should do ourselves a favor and instead of being irritated by non-pagan symbols we should embrace our own idea of what the holidays mean to us.
There's no sense in getting angry over peoples freedoms.
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| Why... | Dec 4th. at 9:13:14 pm EST
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Kate (Athens, Georgia) - Email Me
Here we go again - some xian group just has to pour their beliefs down everyone else's throat. There are more xian churches in the US than any other places of worship. Why can't these people keep their religious symbols on their own property? It's not about majority vs minority. It's about ego. Ego and bad manners. What a great combination!
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| ... | Dec 4th. at 8:23:02 pm EST
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
All or none. The US is NOT a xian nation. The First Amendment implies it, the Barbary Treaties (Article 11) verifies it. Either let all religions display their emblems or none of them get to do so.
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| Surprise, Surprise... | Dec 4th. at 6:23:39 pm EST
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Bunny Mazonas (Folkestone, England) - Email Me
"The Capitol has held other religious icons before, including a Jewish menorah. So the building is not explicitly trying to push Christianity on to people.
That being said, it's difficult to imagine a pentagram displayed in support of Pagans or Wiccans or any sort of satanic-supporting religious symbol on display."
Satanic-supporting. Nice. The entire article is silly, anyway. A large amount of the "controversy" surrounding the use of religious symbols in public is contrived, anyway.
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| Here We Go Again... | Dec 4th. at 5:30:00 pm EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
The best way to get that nativity ouy of there- or to equalize everything, is to demand that a pentacle accompany it, it its own niche, of course. Followed by a menorah, et al.
Don't demand that it come down, demand that other things go up next to it. After all, This particular holiday does not mean the same thing to everyone despite its current appellation....
Of course, there are more important things to think about besides someone's decorations. One thing is certain, after the 25th, no one is going to care.
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| Why Is It That... | Dec 4th. at 3:24:19 pm EST
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Aethelbera (St. Johns, Newfoundland) - Email Me
people just love to bicker about the petty unimportant things when there are more important things at hand?
Who cares who puts what up where?
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