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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20201
[Civil]
Date Posted:
11/14/2008
12:14:14 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 4,196
RSS: 13,093
Comments: 15
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Area Religion Class Nets Suit
Author: Rebecca S. Green Source: The Journal Gazette (IN)
Title: AREA RELIGION CLASS NETS SUIT
The parent of a Huntington elementary school student sued the school district in federal court because of a religious education program the parent wants shut down.
Filed Wednesday by attorneys with the American Civil Liberties Union in Indiana on behalf of an unnamed parent and her child, the lawsuit accuses the Huntington County Community School Corp. of violating their constitutional rights.
The woman, identified only as “H.S.,” is the mother of an 8-year-old, identified as “J.S.,” a student at Horace Mann Elementary School in Huntington. The elementary school offers third- and fourth-grade students a “release time” program for “By the Book Weekday Religious Instruction” through the Associated Churches of Huntington, according to court documents.
H.S. is asking a U.S. District Court judge in Fort Wayne to prohibit the Huntington schools from allowing the program to continue on school grounds during school hours and from providing the program with any assistance, such as the use of school utilities.
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Community Thoughts: There are 15 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Here Is An Idea | Nov 17th. at 8:29:13 pm EST
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Feathercloak (Grand Junction, Colorado) - Email Me
GO TO SUNDAY SCHOOL, TEACH IN
YOUR HOMES, HAVE BBQ's IN THE PARK.
STOP having the schools teach what you should be teaching at home if you want your child to have those values.
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| I Hope They Win The Lawsuit... | Nov 17th. at 12:54:44 pm EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
No matter how it is preached, it's still an infringement of school time to have a private bible studies class outside of the school during those hours. I still say that this violates separation of church and state. There are enough times and places that don't interfere with school time. Sneaky tactics seem to be some fundies' forte.
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| Teacher Productivity | Nov 17th. at 10:34:20 am EST
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GreeneDragon (Palmdale, California) - Email Me
Here is a question: If school budgets are so tight that teachers are being forced to have overloaded classrooms of 30+ students, then how can ANY school justify the salary for having a teacher supervise a class of 4 students so a private organization can make money using the other kids that the public teacher is being paid to work with ?
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| I Wonder... | Nov 16th. at 5:33:47 am EST
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
... what the kids who don't have permission to participate are given to do during this time. You can't exactly expect 8-10 year olds to sit around for an hour and not be bored. Chances are they might be wondering what goes on in that trailer and why their parents won't let them participate. These kids might be feeling left out.
My theory is that this is Bible propaganda and church propaganda masquerading as education. The kids feel left out so they will ask students who do go to the 'By the Book' classes what it's all about which will ultimately turn a lot of kids into a bunch of miniature preachers. Nothing like a preaching nine year old in the classroom, is there? This could be to get children from non-Christian families thinking about Christianity. Subtle propaganda.
As for the legal side if there is separation of Church and State then this class should not be during school hours or on school property. These Bible classes should be after school hours and treated as extra-curricular, not as part of the school curriculum.
I remember my Upper (later Secondary) school allowing religious meetings before and after lessons as well as during break and lunch time. However there were multiple meetings for students of different religious backgrounds. (ie: there were meetings for Muslims and Hindus as well as meetings for Christians. Although since there were more Muslims there were more meetings for Muslims.) These meetings, however were not put at the expense of lessons or during lesson time.
And if parents are that desperate to give their kids a religious education, send them to Sunday school or they should give them a religious education themselves.
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| ... | Nov 15th. at 8:46:07 pm EST
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
They should teach the buy-bull in school..."Today class, we're going to teach you how to pass off a work of plagiarism as an original thought. Today's lesson: The Buy-Bull."
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| Ugh! | Nov 15th. at 1:39:53 pm EST
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Windraven (Huntington, West Virginia) - Email Me
I live in Huntington, and I see this kind of thing way too much in this state. If you want your kids to have a religous education alongside their regular education, there are many fine parochial schools in the area. Home is where I beleive kids should get their education, not in the public schools. I really hope this lawsuit wins.
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| Hope The Lawsuit Wins | Nov 15th. at 10:55:18 am EST
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Rowan Foxfyre (Indianapolis, Indiana) - Email Me
Next plan of substance would be to have Local Pagans offer to teach in the same way. If they are refused in ANY way, shut down the thumpermobile.
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| Hmm | Nov 15th. at 10:52:57 am EST
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Ravenowl (Amboy, Illinois) - Email Me
I have absolutely no problem with using school time for religious study as long as its not at the grammar school level. If a grown adult wants to study various religious themes at a university level then by all means go for it. On the other hand, if the person is at a very impressionable age, then the problem is that it will promote one religion over the next. Thats the problem right there.
As another person has posted it singles out the people that aren't interested. Now this goes into the sheep effect. Humanity has got to where its at by following other people. Now while this makes people rather boring, it does serve a function. Now to use peoples natural desire to belong to promote a religion is well just absolutely wrong.
Another problem I have with this is that the class instruction itself. What are the odds that the children are actually getting a level of instruction where they can use the time to actually get to understand their religion? What are the odds that the religion being studies is there own? How many children that you know actually picked their own religion? What are the chances that they are mature enough to actually do this?
You see there are a myriad of problems when one does this at that level of education. Then again thats exactly how the church has been doing it for over a thousand years. How can we expect them to do it in any other way. Trying to get the children while they are young. Think about it like this.. ask any or all your christian friends how they got into their religion. The odds of them telling you that they were raised in it are astronomical. How many do you think actually studies and shopped around as it were? Shopping around as is other religions not various forms of the same basic religion.
Im sure that there are even more little problems, that I havent actually addressed in this comment, but that right there is the problem. Its not a matter of should the children be taught religious studies in a public school setting, rather its more to the point to say if they can without influencing the children one way or the other.
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| RELIGIOUS INSTRUCTION... | Nov 15th. at 5:15:05 am EST
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
Does NOT belong in a public school, period!
Love to all
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| No Child Left Behind??? | Nov 15th. at 1:13:55 am EST
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Avren (Desert, Oregon) - Email Me
All I can say is, the teacher leaves 4 children in a hall way, while the "normal" kids (which I am assuming makes up the other 98% of the class) get escorted to their bible study class? Does anyone else feel down right sick? How is this NOT an infringement on the separation of church and state? If I'm paying the wage of a teacher, and the time that teacher spends with my child, she is going to STAY with my child! I would be so angry! These students are just elementary age! They won't have any concept as to why they are being treated like red headed step-children! (Sorry to offend and red headed step-children!) I hope this mom wins! This propaganda is one of the reasons I couls never stomach Christianity, it seemed too much like a real life infomercial!
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| Bumper Sticker | Nov 14th. at 8:53:29 pm EST
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Keyra (Plano, Texas) - Email Me
I remember seeing a bumper sticker many years ago that read, "If you don't pray in my school, I won't think in your church." Now while that may seem a bit (!!!) biased, it does make a point. That point is this: school (ESPECIALLY elementary school, or what used to be known as "grammar school") is for learning about the things that you need to learn in order to function in today's society. These things are mathematics, language studies (specifically spelling, grammar and sentence structure...though lately these have seen a rapid decline, judging by the posts from numerous teenage-to-young adult posters populating the myriad forums on the Internet these days - part of this we can well thank text messaging for - things like "U R guna luv ths!" and whatnot) , history, science, biology, etc.
Does religion have its place? Perhaps through a social studies network that encompasses as well "alternative" studies, but to focus upon solely that of Christianity is to blatantly fly in the face of the whole separation of church and state understanding.
Yes, there will be many, many people who immediately decry the ACLU as being "atheist" because they've stepped in; however, they are well within their right to do so in this particular instance. This is not a parochial school, so why are Biblical studies being conducted during school hours on school property?
In High School, I was living in Utah at the time. Yes, there were Mormon studies being conducted during school hours; however, these were across the street, off of school property, and they were an elective course, everything being funded by the LDS church. Something like this is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Students were not forced to take the class, nor did they suffer any backlash if they chose not to do so. But here again, we are talking HIGH School, where students had more of a grasp of individuality and overall understanding. What this school here is doing is to children who do not yet understand these principles.
To this I must again revert to my earlier post on another topic concerning the Christian Right grasping at straws to stay afloat in an age where people are looking away from the politicking, corruption, intolerance and scandals that have peppered the news media over these past few years.
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| Commentary | Nov 14th. at 8:34:08 pm EST
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NOVA (New Brunswick, New Jersey) - Email Me
Let's hear it for H.S. for having the courage to challenge the church and their sneaky ways.
If it were us doing this, you could be sure the church would be up in arms about it. Now they are getting some of their own medicine.
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| I Agree With The Parents. | Nov 14th. at 4:28:13 pm EST
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
All programming not directly tied to the school should not use school time facilities or property unless it is part of the school cirriculum, which this is clearly not.
Why should bible time be more important than what the school is supposed to be teaching, and why should students not participating be forced to stay on grounds while the others go to "bible studies" during school time. True, while this is voluntary it still impugns on the time that students should be learning other things.
There is plenty of time to learn about the bible outside of school grounds.
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| Argggh! | Nov 14th. at 3:00:45 pm EST
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Ravan Asteris (San Jose, California) - Email Me
Why in the heck does this stuff have to happen on school time, much less on or near school property? Good grief, that's what after school and weekends are for! It's called "Sunday School" for a reason!
5 days a week of religious instruction? Or just one? Either way, school time is for learning basics, like reading, writing, math, history and civics. A student's home time is for learning their religion. If the parents want their religion interwoven with regular schooling, they should send their kids to parochial school.
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| For Once, I Agree | Nov 14th. at 2:57:53 pm EST
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Okami Myrrhibis (Woodbridge, Virginia) - Email Me
having it during school hours is a clear "preference" for a particular religion.
As much as I *really* dislike having religious-affiliated services/programs/etc on public school grounds at any time, after hours well - sadly, that is becoming the norm, even here in suburb of Wash, DC.
No utilities - if the Church sponsoring the program pays, then it's the same as any other group using the school after-hours. They pay for the HVAC & electricity.
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