| 
|
Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
| Total Views: 4,941,771
|
Article: 21188
[Schools/Ed]
Date Posted:
9/22/2009
4:07:00 pm EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 3,577
RSS: 21,722
Comments: 24
|
Ky. Parent Upset Over Anti-Islam Film
Author: Associated Press Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
Title: KY. PARENT UPSET OVER ANTI-ISLAM FILM
A Kentucky girl needed counseling after her class at Pulaski County High School watched a short film that showed images of violence allegedly committed by Muslims, the student's father said.
Bill Cruey said his daughter has been pulled from the class after seeing images of beheadings, children being injured and dead bodies interspersed with readings from the Quran.
Cruey told WYMT-TV in Hazard that the film "Fitna" blamed the Islam religion for the 9-11 terrorist attacks on the United States. The film was shown to the class on Sept. 11.
The film was made by Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders, who campaigns on an anti-immigration and anti-Islam platform.
| Options: [Read Full Story] [Comments Locked]
[Email to a Friend]
|
|
Community Thoughts: There are 24 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Right Idea, Flawed Execution. | Sep 24th. at 10:30:15 am EDT
|
TheStormofWar (Salt Lake City, Utah) - Email Me
I tend to agree that discussion of a religious extremism in any form is a very, very relevant topic that needs to be addressed, and it's within the scope of the public education system to talk about it. Particularly in a leadership class.
However, showing a film with beheadings and verses from the Quran is bad form, no matter how you slice it or justify it. That's like showing the Faces of Death to a pre-med class on how to deal with trauma, or the Anarchists' Cookbook to a poli-sci class to show about political extremism.
I often complain and note about how much we protect our kids as of late (as in the 2000's) from the world, when they should be more aware about what they are coming into, but this is just down right wrong.
Very bad form.
|
| Fanatics | Sep 24th. at 7:48:20 am EDT
|
Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
I could give you lots of examples of fanatics throughout history who believe just as strongly as hardline Muslims and who wrought just as bad (if not worse) horrors on people. That isn't the point. This isn't the place for the discussion either. The very tone and content of some of the posts on this subject indicate a fanatical point of view which makes attempting rational discussion on the subject impossible.
I am not a fan of fanatics or terrorists of any stripe. That, as I said before, is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what this teacher was "trying" to do. It doesn't matter whether we think this girl has led a sheltered life. All that matters is the film was graphic and violent. It was inappropriate in the setting it was shown. The politics of it (and I think there was a political/religious statement being made too) are another can of worms. Since the film could not get past the first hurdle, we don't even need to get into that one.
I have gotten a number of emails since I posted a comment on this article. This surprised me as I was (for me) brief and to the point. A simple majority thanked me for pointing out that the real issue had nothing to do with the political content and everything to do with the venue and graphic nature. A minority of the emails exploded on me with fanatical fury, angry or unbelieving that I would dare question the portrayal of radical Islam. The passion displayed in these emails only reinforces to me that this issue is not one for school. High School (even leadership classes) are about learning the basics. They have more than enough to do making sure our children can read, write, work math problems, and learn to interact with each other.
Lessons about what political system is correct, which religions are monstrous, discussions of graphic violence and snuff films, and countless other things are the purview of parents. Some parents will rise to the occassions. Some will not. For some College awaits and there (as adults) they will get a large helping of horrors if they wish to see it. Moreover, the internet makes the information available twenty four hours a day and seven days a week. It isn't as if people can't/won't get access if they aren't shown it in high school. The teacher made a very poor choice. The school corrected the matter. That wasn't the time and place for such things just as Wren's Nest is not the time and place for hate speech whether it is directed at Muslims, Christians, or whatever.
|
| The Teacher Actualy Showed Reality? FOR SHAME! | Sep 23rd. at 11:27:26 pm EDT
|
WitchPoet (Claremont, California) - Email Me
This film is called Fitna, any who dare to offend the Left can watch it here: [Web LINK]
It contains NOTHING but the acts of Islamic terrorists and the verses that THEY use to justify their actions. If anyone can manage to come up with the equivalent for ANY large religion in the world in the last 200 years other than Islam I will watch ABBA videos for 24 hours in contrition. If you can show me one Non-Muslim, mainstream and devout terrorist and that is FAITHFUL to the WHOLE of their scripture I will sew up my bung-hole.
Osama bin Laden says NOTHING that is not 100% compatible with ALL FOUR schools of Islamic jurisprudence. NOT ONE THING.
Why should the HS teacher not want to expose the students to reality. There was noprejudice in the film, just Islamists being Islamists in word and action.
Show me the Christian terrorists that use scriptures and interpretations shared by Catholics, Copts, Eastern Orthodox and Protestants AND is blatantly about demonizing and defeating any who are none Christian FOR ALL TIME. Historical accounts that do not include an exhortation to carry the fight into the future do not count.
Come on CAIR, show me the money!! Show me the NON-HERETICAL Christian terrorist! Yet 9/11 was NOT AGAINST ISLAMIC LAW. To Islamic Jurisprudence ANY NON MUSLIM IS IN REBELLION AGAINST GOD AND IS INCAPABLE OF BEING "INNOCENT". Period, End of statement. One can find supposedly mainstream Muslims leaders on TV saying JUST THAT. Saying that "innocent" is a slippery term and to be Non-Muslim is a PROVOCATION against God as bad as if a Christian peed on a cross in the popes lap.
Christians have been apologizing for their (heretical) excesses for centuries now...Muslims have never even admitted to ever doing anything wrong AT ALL in their history. How does a person get their head around the Islamist mind? It is all simple really, Take a rabid American fundie and give them a fairly sociopathic attitude toward non-Christians and a willingness to, at the least, EXCUSE murder because of insults to Jesus. Where is this creature?
Page the Spanish Inquisition...a group formed at a time when Spain was consolidating after kicking out a foreign conqueror...Islamists. So, the most aggressively bloodthirsty group of Christians ever to exist was formed as a reaction to the culture imposed by their Muslim conquerors. Then they went on to be the ONLY European colonizer to use rampant violence and killing as a tool to convert the native in the New World. NONE of the excesses of the Protestant or French Catholic even come close to the simple policy of the Spanish invaders....and the Spanish colonized a much higher civilization than the others did....with no respect for achievements the Non-Spanish would have respected. Oh, what is that from the back row? What about the British in India. Simply put the worst of the British excesses didn’t even rise to the level of brutality that the Indian leaders dished out to their subjects daily.
The Islamic scripture (Koran AND Hadith) and the official interpretations enshrined TO THIS DAY from the 8th century DEMAND behavior that all other major religions would find inexcusable.
In Sharia Law, ALL SHARIA LAW, someone who kills their own child or grandchild for "rebellion" or "adultery" or kills an apostate is NOT SUBJECT TO PUNISHMENT. It is not regarded as a "real murder" requiring a life for a life or blood money. NONE, NADA, ZIPO.
The ONLY branch of Islam that denies this and is at all willing to admit that other religions have a right to live with equality is the Amidaya sect and they are considered heretics by ALL the larger sects and are being killed left and right by "good" Muslims even now. Even the Sufis have a strong Jihadist strain in their teachings. Islam Must and WILL conquer and to prevent it or resist it is seen as a crime against God. Therefore anyone who attacks such a criminal IS NOT COMMITING A CRIME IN THE EYES OF GOD.
Take the most radical, hypocritical, evangelical Dominionist you can find and you will still not have someone as fanatical as a devout Muslim because he has not been programmed by his entire culture to accept the right to use deadly violence to enforce his "holy" opinion. Now there are folks in this land who would LIKE to be as aggressive and black and white about it as Islamists are where they hold power but they have been mellowed by being raised where the Enlightenment has had it's way for 300 years.
There are so many differences between Islam and Judaism or Christianity that it is not even fair to say Islam is a part of the family. More of a bastard stepchild produced by rape. NEVER forget that to a Muslim MOST Jewish and Christian scripture was FORGED to change the story away from "All the biblical heroes were precursors of Islam." They claim there was no crucifixion at all and that Moses was an Islamic Prophet until the evil Jews rewrote the story. Given that most Jews now recognize that the ENTIRE Moses tale is a myth that is pretty damn arrogant. There was no Egyptian captivity at all and almost certainly no Moses at all. It was all just a ploy to centralize the worship at the temple. So the Muslims believe a fake story is PARTIALY FAKED despite their being no physical/historical evidence for EITHER version and not a scrap of written evidence for the Muslim version pre-koran.
It doesn't matter to them that there is NOT ONE shred of evidence for a "Replaced" Jewish and Christian scripture. They just know it to be as true as a fundie does that personhood begins when the sperm hits the egg.
Christianity and Judaism consist of multiple scriptures from many sources over thousands of years. This allows this story or that to be regarded in new ways over time. Imagine a "bible" created from the mind of ONE man, one man considered to be the last word of God and the ONLY valid prophet to follow as a last word. Not only that but NO FURTHER PROPHETS WILL EVER COME FROM GOD. Not only THAT but shortly after it had conquered the whole or Arabia it was decided that NO FURTHER INTERPRETATIN was allowed. Imagine if the Nicene Council had added a coda declaring that any further interpretation of Jesus or the scriptures would be met with death. And that they then went on to bloodily enforce this until it became a central tenant of ALL Christianity. This is what happened with Islam.
The equivalent of a MAINSTREAM, MODERATE Catholic or Protestant in Islam believes that the entire Koran is enshrined in Heaven down to the letter, in Arabic. To question ANY of it is considered heresy and a killable offense. To ANY actually devout Muslim, as opposed to the majority of "cultural" Muslims it is not to be questioned what the Sharia says, it is God's word and we should be glad to have it. It is this mentality that causes a mother to hold down her daughter who has been raped so the father can stab her. And this is why when the Father and Mother tell the neighbors proudly what they have done the "law" in their land does....NOTHING. If it can be shown to be an Islamically sanctioned killing there is a very light sentence or NO sentence. In countries where the laws are a bit tougher the rule is to have a minor brother or nephew or a very old person do the deed so they will get a light sentence. THIS IS NOT me spouting propaganda. Go read AlArabiya.com website sometime. Even the white-washing, Israel hating kings at Al-Jazeera show the ugly side even as they try to whitewash their faith to the Western reader.
I wish everyone would actually read the hadith and Quran. The whitewashed "biographies" found on apologist (dawa) sites are heavily edited to make Muhammad look like Jesus crossed with Mother Teresa. Read the scripture for yourself then come tell me I was right and you are looking at the world in a new way.
I once thought that Islam HAD to be more or less like the other majore religion. Then I actually read their scripture and learned about their doctrines. It is always better to go to a religions own words and actions before you judge it.
In Islam the terrorists are ORTHODOX who actually take their religion as a truth to be lived. The bad guys in Christianity and Judaism are and have been for a LONG LONG TIME nothing but HERETICS. It is common for non fundies to comment that this or that action by the fundies would have Jesus weeping is it not?
The sad fact is that Muhammad would have been one of the MILLIONS of Muslims, the MAJORITY in non Western lands, who danced on 9/11 because it fit exactly with his message, whole cloth. Peace and love and charity are mandated by Islam.....FOR MUSLIMS. The rest of us are in rebellion against God and must be converted or suppressed or killed.
Find More info -- HERE
|
| I'm Under No Illusions... | Sep 23rd. at 10:27:05 pm EDT
|
Cole Gillette (Trabuco Canyon, California) - Email Me
...about the murderous, bigoted and misogynistic nature of hardline Islam. But as someone who has had moderate Muslim friends, culturally Islamic girlfriends, and a general disdain for intolerance, I'm not afraid to call BS when I see it--and using a public classroom to indoctrinate minors with violent nationalist propaganda most certainly qualifies.
|
| This Isn't About Religion... | Sep 23rd. at 3:16:31 pm EDT
|
Sela (Happyplace, New York) - Email Me
This was wrong not because of the religious context but because the teacher took it upon himself to shove his personal view into the faces of children...
And yes even a 17 year old like the one in question is in many respects a child...they do not have the full capacity that an adult supposedly has to deal and cope with the crap the world very often dishes out without regard.
This wasn't about religion. This was about a teachers total lack of understanding and total disregard for the mental and emotional capacity of his kids.
|
| Hate Speech & Inappropriate Behavior | Sep 23rd. at 1:15:57 pm EDT
|
Finn (San Marcos, Texas) - Email Me
This site sports a healthy helping of hate speech on a regular basis. Most of it is directed at Christianity so it is largely ignored. I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again. We spend far too much time talking about other faiths. Debate and discussion of pagan faiths and witchcraft has always been the minority hereabouts which is ironic. Nothing would please me more than to hear less about faiths and philosophies that I don't practice and have little interest.
That being said, it was inappropriate behavior for the instructor to show that film in the classroom. This isn't a political statement. The film was graphic and violent. If it had to go before a board to get a rating it would have been an "R" which is simply inappropriate without parental permission.
|
| Here We Go... | Sep 23rd. at 11:15:00 am EDT
|
Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
...the rocky ground of discussing Muslim extremists in which one can be accused of either being hateful or of burying one's head in the sand.
Now there is a difference between Islam the religion and the Muslims who follow it which vary greatly from murderous/insane extremists to passive moderates. The problem that the latter face is that they are either too intimidated to speak out against their extremist counterparts or they bury their heads in the sand in order to block out the horrible acts done in the name of their religion.
Certainly any moderates who were just as appalled by 9/11 as the rest of us need to speak out and say these things are wrong themselves. They shouldn't just expect a cleric or imam to do it, they need to actually do it themselves. (I'll note here that I've actually heard two condemnations of extremists by moderates, one on the news regarding 7/7 because his granddaughter had been killed in the attack and an old classmate who condemned forcing women into burkhas. I still think the moderate Muslim community need to do more to show that not all Muslims let their religion do their thinking for them.)
Likewise the extremists, just as in any religion tend to be literalists or to interpret the Koran in the most extreme way. The Koran itslf is no more evil than the Bible, it is how it is interpreted that causes the beheadings, the hangings and the subjugation of women.
|
| Ignorant | Sep 23rd. at 10:08:04 am EDT
|
Safiah Teoh (Charlotte, North Carolina) - Email Me
So much for a no-hate-speech policy on this site.
You have never met me, my family, or any of my friends who are also Muslim, but yet you spit your bile all over all of us, good and bad alike no matter who we are. You are an embarrassment to the many people I see every day who don't hate people they don't know.
|
| This Is About Religious Intolerance - Period | Sep 23rd. at 12:14:06 am EDT
|
nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
Forget the crap about how YOU don't happen to like Islam, the issue is a SCHOOL showing a film to it's students, a film which depicts in GRAPHIC DETAIL beheadings, tortures, dead children, etc, ad nauseum. It just happens that the film included excerpts from the Quran, a tactic designed specifically to enforce the premise that Islam -- not PEOPLE who happen to be "Islamic" -- is wholly responsible for the actions depicted in the film.
Stop and think about if the film showed the very same things, but instead of excerpts from the Quran....there were passages from someone's Book of Shadows. Or, how about some of the teachings connected with Asatru. Or.... I hope y'all get the general idea. Actually, there are films just like that, designed specifically to show how "evil" and "satanic" ALL pagan / wiccan religions are -- just wait, some Christian Fundie Zealot is going to end up persuading a school somewhere deep in the Bible Belt to show one of those films to the students......
Since this happened in Kentucky, I can practically guarantee that such a film designed to show that Christianity is directly responsible for, say, Abu Ghraib or Wounded Knee, that film WOULD NOT BE SHOWN. Why, you ask?
Because it is extremely evident that the reason for showing the film in question is that they want to "prove" that Islam itself, not a group of extremists, is responsible -- as if NO OTHER religion has any such extremists.
Get a grip, people. Let "them" get away with this sort of deliberately incendiary propaganda, and YOUR religion may be the next target in "their" sights.
---nasionnaich ....p.s., the majority of U.S. citizens today are either descended from immigrants, or are immigrants themselves. claiming that "immigration is the problem" is blaming your own ancestors (or yourself) for the "problem". I don't know about y'all, but my grandparents' families came from Europe - and they didn't have visas.
|
| Plain Ignorance | Sep 22nd. at 11:43:49 pm EDT
|
Red Water (Goshen, Ohio) - Email Me
THIS MIGHT BE TO HARD FOR SOME PEOPLE TO SWALLOW READERS BE WARE
It's sad that people can't accept the truth. I saw disgusting movies similar to this and was giving the right to leave the room by my high school teachers while we watched the holocaust. It's not like they showed this to young children we are talking about showing this to High school students who are suppose to be mature and well educated. i don't blame the girl i'm sure that it did upset her in a way someone can't understand we all react to violence in different ways but i think the father has over reacted, i guess showing our nation and any other nations the reality of whats going on in our world is not needed for ignorant blind eyed people of our society. but the girl is not damaged from this, it just happened she had a hard time processing what she saw and emotions took over but it's important to show people the truth..IF we can allow Teachers to tell are kids about "sex" Then by god they can show a violent movie. The worst things we can do to our children is hide them from reality and pain. I best stop here
|
| Um.... | Sep 22nd. at 11:36:33 pm EDT
|
Thora Rolandsdottir (Norman, Oklahoma) - Email Me
... Islam IS the reason for the 9/11 attacks. The attackers were Muslims, performing the despicable act in the name of Allah & Jihad. How is Islam NOT the reason behind 9/11?
People need to stop swallowing the BS that Islam is a peaceful religion. It is NOT. All it takes is a simple Google search to find all the passages from the Koran that speak of fighting nonbelievers, burning & beheading them, obligatory Jihad, the heavenly rewards that await Jihadists, etc.
And I'm not surprised this girl needed counseling after watching that film. Something similar happened to me in high school. In history class in 10th grade the teacher made us watch a 2-part film about Hiroshima & I was severely traumatized by some of the imagery. It showed blown-up body parts, people with their skin literally melting off, children born deformed from the radiation, etc. I went to the bathroom & cried after class. I had my mom write me a note excusing me from the second half of the movie, and if she hadn't I wouldv'e skipped class. I had nightmares about nuclear war for ages after that.
Find More info -- HERE
|
| I Forgot To Mention . . . | Sep 22nd. at 10:54:50 pm EDT
|
R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
If ANY given governement doesn't profile incoming visitors, check expired visas, fund top-notch security at the airports, or have clear emergency directives under threatening circumstances, then guess what? Things like 9/11 are going to happen from time to time. A crime takes a criminal AND the opportunity.
|
| Dangerous Business | Sep 22nd. at 10:48:53 pm EDT
|
R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
Let's face this simple fact that Salman Rushdie learned pretty well. Even that great dumbass George Bush was pretty careful on this point, and Obama clearly is too. You can believe whatever you want, or say whatever, of course. But there's an 800-lb. gorilla in the room that is best not talked about, unless you are completely anonymous and don't worry much about your own mortality. To me it's about common sense, not a question of clarity or something. Some truths are better kept to yourself. For these reasons I am generally glad I and all the women I know still live in the United States, although I'm sure we'd all be much happier living in Canada, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and the like. I'm just not rich enough to make that switch. But I DEFINITELY know where I'd never want to live. Or would want any woman I respect to live. And that's about all you'll ever hear me say on this particular subject.
|
| Overkilt? | Sep 22nd. at 10:42:27 pm EDT
|
Ahr-Ohn (Bridgeport, Connecticut) - Email Me
The girl feels she should talk to someone, after seeing that film, but it's really a job for just anybody, maybe a compratively young Holocaust Survivor has a degree in Psychology. comparatively young meaning, pushing 80.
The way to make the point that it can happen here, is to show the good and the bad, of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Atheism, and only show the good, of Christianity, so the students ask about the bad. This is Kentucky, after all, and we have to be tactful, in asking others to look.
"They are blatantly and willingly participating in smearing a religion in front of kids who do not have the full picture," said Farag, a University of Louisville engineering professor.
Presenting such a message can turn children into "haters, not peacemakers," he said. Farag said almost all Muslims "never showed any pride in Sept. 11, never associated with it, never wanted it to happen."
The snippets of Celebration that day, had been about Free Cake, and they hadn't heard a thing about the bombings until later.
A deeper examination would show, not only are they people but, their cultures are ancient enough to have been where ours is heading.
Arawn Graalrd
|
| Any Faith System..... | Sep 22nd. at 9:41:34 pm EDT
|
Emerald Tiger (Jamestown, North Dakota) - Email Me
... is going to have extremists.
Be it Islam, Christian, Wiccan or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
|
Disclaimer: The Witches' Voice inc does not verify the accuracy of the details stated in this listing, nor do we vouch for the value of the goods or services presented here... As with all contacts and financial dealings in cyberspace, we encourage you to use caution and wisdom in your dealings with strangers.
Political Statements: Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren's Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches' Voice, Inc. TWV is a non-profit, non-partisan educational organization.
|
State/Country flags created by 3dflags.com and are used with permission
Web Site Content (including: text - graphics - html - look & feel)
Copyright 1997-2009 The Witches' Voice Inc. All rights reserved
Note: Authors & Artists retain the copyright for their work(s) on this website.
Unauthorized reproduction without prior permission is a violation of copyright laws.
Website structure, evolution and php coding by Fritz Jung on a Macintosh G5.
Any and all personal political opinions expressed in the public listing sections (including, but not restricted to, personals, events, groups, shops, Wren’s Nest, etc.) are solely those of the author(s) and do not reflect the opinion of The Witches’ Voice, Inc. TWV is a nonprofit, nonpartisan educational organization.
Sponsorship: Visit the Witches' Voice Sponsor Page for info on how you
can help support this Community Resource. Donations ARE Tax Deductible.
The Witches' Voice carries a 501(c)(3) certificate and a Federal Tax ID.
Mail Us: The Witches' Voice Inc., P.O. Box 341018, Tampa, Florida 33694-1018 U.S.A.
| |
