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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19157
[Pagan]
Date Posted:
1/3/2008
12:50:35 pm EST
Wvox Stats
Views: 7,687
RSS: 16,670
Comments: 11
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Wiccan Priest Sues Over Livingston Soothsaying Ordinance
Author: Bob Anderson Source: The Advocate (LA)
Title: WICCAN PRIEST SUES OVER LIVINGSTON SOOTHSAYING ORDINANCE
A man who describes himself as a Wiccan priest has filed suit against Livingston Parish over its soothsaying ordinance.
Inspiration from the divine transmitted by a Wiccan should be treated legally the same way as a message from God transmitted by a Christian minister, Cliff Eakin said Wednesday.
“To dictate what you can and cannot do in a spiritual sense” violates constitutional rights, he said.
Eakin, who said he is legally a Wiccan minister, said he knows of at least 100 members of his faith residing in Livingston Parish.
“No person shall engage in the practices of soothsaying, fortune telling, palm reading, clairvoyance, crystal ball gazing, mind reading, card reading and the like, for money or other consideration,” according to the ordinance the Parish Council approved May 10.
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Community Thoughts: There are 11 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Livingston Counsel | Jan 4th. at 11:28:50 pm EST
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Terra Gazelle (Springfield, Louisiana) - Email Me - Web
Well as a resident of Livingston parish (Springfield) and a Wiccan I can say that going to a parish meeting is not a joyful experience, unless you are a born again member of the religious right. With the 10 commandments on the wall with a poster saying Under God...and a fire and brimstone preacher, all I could think of is, "this is unconstitutional".
Cliff is right, this is a matter of religious freedom. For those who see Wicca and Witchcraft as two seperate entities, I quess it is different...but as a praticing Witch/Wiccan since the late 70's they are the same thing, and magick comes from the Gods...it is a part of my religion. The ability to read cards comes from the universe...the gods...so it is part of my right to practice my faith as I see fit, and the government does not have the right to limit me, any more then they can limit any faith healer that happens to wear a cross, or a stock broker on wall street.
Will I get arrested for reading cards in my home? how about if I am teaching another? What will be next that will limit us? We need to make sure that it is not incremental religious bigotry.
terra
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| (none) | Jan 4th. at 2:06:28 am EST
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Llunmere (Germantown Hills, Illinois) - Email Me
There's a demand for free labor, but you don't see slaves anywhere around here, do you?
The ordinance is completely ridiculous, not to mention redundant. A better way to define it would be to tack it on in completely detailed language on to charges of fraud.
But the Wiccan does prove a point: some evangelical "prosperity" preachers claim that their followers will be recompensated dramatically for their donation through some supernatural means... how is this any different than a charlatan claiming to be a psychic promising supernatural answers for a dramatically lesser price than the assumed value of their "service".
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| Good Law | Jan 4th. at 1:49:20 am EST
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David Eagan (Cleveland, Wisconsin) - Email Me
While its a good point that charlatans could be charged under fraud, and that psychologists and lawyers may give expensive and bad advice. However, lawyers and psychologists have the possibility of giving correct advice, while a diviner does not.
Also, comparing a store to a church is comparing apples to oranges. If you want to perform arcane rituals for the benefit of your spiritual brothers in the auspices of a non-profit and then accept donations that is less bad than taking people in and billing them directly for a psychic reading.
Even if it did work, charging for a spiritual service is wrong. Asking for money always changes the content, tone, delivery, and audience of the message. It may seem harmless but bruises to the soul are not visible.
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| Hmmm | Jan 3rd. at 8:53:37 pm EST
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Rev. Ryan Adams (SWC) (Fort Polk, Louisiana) - Email Me
I think the argument is fallacious. From the article:
"Inspiration from the divine transmitted by a Wiccan should be treated legally the same way as a message from God transmitted by a Christian minister, Cliff Eakin said Wednesday."
Wicca is a religion of the Priesthood. We act as our own link to the Divine without the need for an intermediary or intercessor. Not to discount performing acts of divination on someones behalf, but it is not a part of the religious practices of Wicca, rather it is an act of magic.
All of that said, I'm opposed to a ban on fortune telling for profit. Not for religious purposes, but because it represents a market for which there is a demand.
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| Life In Louisiana | Jan 3rd. at 8:41:43 pm EST
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Sabaean (Metairie, Louisiana) - Email Me
“That’s Louisiana Politics for you” is a phrase that used quite a bit down here.
I live 40 minutes away from Livingston Parish where its also a criminal offense if you get caught with adult “paraphernalia,” unless of course it the kind used by straight-men, that’s legal.
In Livingston there are only two religions, Christianity and devil-worship. The second one is more of a default category than anything else, if it’s not a real “bible-believing church” then its devil-worship. And, just to clarify things further, “devil-worship ain’t a religion” because then the Constitution would give protection under the law, “thanks to the ACLU,” so if it’s not Christian, it’s not a real religion.
I also live 20 minutes away from Slidell where everyone is still up in arms over the ACLU wanting to take down the picture of Jesus in the courthouse. (See above paragraph)
And, let’s not forget the Jena, LA the beating heart of KKK country where I’ve seen bronze sculptures of David Duke. When 40,000 angry black men marched down the street of a town with the population 7,000, it was “only through the grace of Jesus Christ that prevented things from getting out of hand,” according the States Attorney who prosecuted the black-teens on a rail.
Yeah, I have no doubt there were many a-white-guy on bended knee that day, praying that there was no such thing as karma.
Welcome to the weirdness that is Louisiana. Where for two straight weeks a year, (coming soon by the way) we celebrate with an orgy of parades and pagan worship with young co-eds getting naked for cheap plastic beads and nasty beer out of plastic cups. Then for the rest of the year, find every reason in the world to persecute those who actually adhere to pagan traditions year round.
Most people here think hypocrisy is an STD you get when playing around with your cousin. Oh yeah, the abstinence-only program here works great, just ask Brittney Spears 16 yr old sister from Lafayette, LA. She’s due in 7 months.
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| Comfort | Jan 3rd. at 8:21:35 pm EST
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Lys W.D. (Gunnison, Colorado) - Email Me - Web
I don't necessarily agree that this is something religious, though that could be a PART of it. Security seems to be the issue here, something that the American public and government has been having a problem with lately, judging by the state of Homeland Security.
Like I said, it could be religious insecurity, but I'm leaning more toward the idea of mental insecurity. Perhaps we should ask the people who support such an ordinance whether they hold themselves accountable when they are duped, or whether they hold the person who duped them responsible. Of course, that would make little difference either way; if you've been gullible, you've been gullible. Though you've been a little stupid, at least you learned something from the experience.
I suppose it doesn't really matter if the insecurity is mental or religious either, because all this ordinance is trying to do is provide the security the people who demand it are seeking. The problem with that is the more you try to protect yourself, the more you close yourself in. Cages are never appealing, though they may seem safe and secure from the outside. You may be secure and ignorant, or free and wise.
Of course, this may all be incomprehensible, but I suppose the generality of my statement is that you can get rid of all soothsayers, real or fake, and there will be not an ounce of security restored to the system. If we don't hold ourselves accountable for our actions (paying a fake psychic to tell our fortune) , then we will constantly be disappointed by the consequences life brings about. Since this ordinance pulls self-responsibility out of our equation of life, I will never support it, regardless of who it supports religiously.
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| Constitutionally Right | Jan 3rd. at 5:59:45 pm EST
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
OK-- *this* is an issue about free speech and the free exercise of religion.
Yes, you can get really bad advice out of a card reader/psychic/whatever. Guess what-- you can get really bad advice out of a therapist, stock broker, or lawyer too! Not only are all those professions legal; they also typically charge several times more, often for a much smaller slice of their time.
And yes, there are predatory psychics out there. There was, actually, one who operated quite openly back where I went to college. Guess what-- extortion is already illegal (at least, when it's private citizens doing the extorting) .
Look, guys-- if someone wants $500 to bring your lover back, or $1000 to keep horrible things from happening to you, or something similar...
...if something about what a given individual strikes you as wrong, 'cause you all know what your own value of wrong is...
...just leave. Go home and take a nice hot shower, with some nice sage soap. Then don't patronize their establishment ever again.
Because this here is bullsh*t. And I think everyone who happens to live in Louisiana ought to write their representatives and say so. I've written enough letters about Arkansan bullsh*t since I moved here to say so.
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| Good Going! | Jan 3rd. at 5:57:37 pm EST
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Silverwing (Colorado Springs, Colorado) - Email Me
He is right on point. Possibly something about the freedom of religion would be involved as well? Can't wait to see how this one comes out. It should have far reaching affects given all the little ordinances that have been passed nationwide.
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| My Email To The Editor | Jan 3rd. at 2:29:00 pm EST
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Teleri ferch Nyfain (Asheville, North Carolina) - Email Me
I sent this to the paper:
I'm writing about Mr. Anderson's article on the Wiccan priest's suit.
Now, either the man IS or is NOT ordained. I expect that if a Christian minister appeared in the newspaper, the reporter would not refer to him/her as 'so-called' or state that he/she 'calls themselves' a minister. So how dare you use such insulting language in the case of another religion?
We have freedom of religion in this country, you know. That is one of the major things our country is founded upon.
BB
Teleri (formally from NOLA)
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| Way To Go Cliff | Jan 3rd. at 1:58:55 pm EST
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Full Circle CUUPS of Lynchburg (Lynchburg, Virginia) - Email Me
I remember Cliff from New Orleans. Good for you! I will be sending you good energy if you so choose. We must stand up for our freedoms or they will be taken away. There is a backlash happening with the fundies right now. They know that there is major change coming and are doing everything to impliment power through corruption and greed. BTW-I loved Louisiana, I just couldn't stand they way they do things there. Come to think of it, It might be just as bad here in Lynchburg. I bet it's everywhere. Do you know where your constitutional rights are? Stand up for what is right, the alternative is not what all the veterans of the past died for in this wonderful country.
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