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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 19610
[Civil]
Date Posted:
4/18/2008
9:53:03 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 6,680
RSS: 17,811
Comments: 22
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ACLU Awarded Damages, Fees In Fight Over Jesus Painting
Author: The Associated Press Source: First Amendment Center
Title: ACLU AWARDED DAMAGES, FEES IN FIGHT OVER JESUS PAINTING
A portrait of Jesus hanging alone in the foyer of a Louisiana courthouse was unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled this week, siding with civil libertarians who sued over the display.
In a ruling filed yesterday, U.S. District Judge Ivan Lemelle agreed to award “nominal” damages plus attorneys fees and costs to plaintiffs in the case against Slidell City Court, filed by lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana.
During a hearing last September, Lemelle said he would have ordered court officials to remove the Jesus icon if they hadn’t already expanded the display to include portraits of other historical “lawgivers,” including Moses, Charlemagne and Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Community Thoughts: There are 22 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| Sigh | Apr 21st. at 4:51:13 pm EDT
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william (Baton Rouge, Louisiana) - Email Me
There is nothing in our constitution that would prohibit the hanging of a picture of Jesus on a courthouse wall. You can write all the paragraphs you want to but, give whatever reason you want but the truth is perfectly clear in the document itself.
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| Hmmm... | Apr 21st. at 10:04:11 am EDT
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John the Alchemist (Francestown, New Hampshire) - Email Me
So the painting "depicted Jesus presenting the New Testament...". Quite a trick since the New Testament wasn't written until about a century after JC's death.
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| Are There Not Churches Enough? | Apr 20th. at 1:30:21 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
It isn't the painting, it's the attitude that often goes with it that is the real problem. The fact that there are those that expect me to pay homage to it as if it were a personification of their god and he is supposed to see all.
As a private citizen, I certainly could not expect fairness to me if I had a judge that felt I wasn't xtian enough to suit him.
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| MY 2 CENTS.... | Apr 20th. at 9:40:59 am EDT
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Whitewolf (Schenectady, New York) - Email Me
I wouldn't care about a painting of jesus on the wall of a courthouse, but .... how about a painting of Gaia, The MOther Goddess to go alongside it?
Only fair....
Love to all
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| Other Great Lawmakers . . . | Apr 20th. at 12:56:53 am EDT
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R. Cicero (Seattle, Washington) - Email Me
Well, Adolf Hitler was a powerful lawmaker. He had a lot of strong ideas about how life should be lived. Stalin had a few ideas too. There was Draco, of course. What would law be, without Draconian verdicts? I'm not sure that Vlad the Impaler wore a three-piece suit, but surely he too was a powerful lawmaker back in the day. Sorry. I just thought that little blurb of an excuse was funny. If you're going to hang a picture of the butcher of Europe next to J.C, then I don't know where reason ends and insanity begins. Anyways, I think they should take all the bloody pictures down and at least pretend to be working.
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| A Secular State... | Apr 19th. at 10:18:10 am EDT
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Panthea Ge (T-Town, Michigan) - Email Me
would be wonderful! Imagine our lawmakers swearing in on the constitution instead of the bible. WOW
Putting religious icons in government buildings is not permitted in this country. It's as offensive as watching our "president" throw a birthday party for the Pope on the White House lawn.
I take no offense with the image of Jesus, but seeing it in a courthouse would make me wonder if I was going to get fair treatment for not being Christian.
They were endorsing one thing and that is plainly unconstitutional:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Precedent says that any government establishment must follow that rule. The LA was not.
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| As A Southerner... | Apr 19th. at 12:27:14 am EDT
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Katmandu (elba, Alabama) - Email Me
I kinda agree with the Louisianians who've posted here. They have long had a history of Christianity or (Orishas?) dressed up as Christian figures. I can see where one might not give such a picture in a foyer a passing notice.
It's the judges who insist upon hanging stuff like the ten commandments in courtrooms right above their benches who scare me fart-less.
But was the pic intended to be an endorsement of religion, ("This is our big lawgiver, to him do we owe our rules.") ?
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| Your Tax $$$$$ At Work.......... | Apr 18th. at 11:44:57 pm EDT
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Thorin (Newaygo, Michigan) - Email Me
All of those tax dollars going towards the time of the courts......over what? Hmmm......let's see......you cannot hang a pic of Jesus on gov. land......hmmmmmmm......let's think this one through one more time, and have Congress, or the Supreme Court rule on it......naaaaaa......it's just not Constitutional......oh well......maybe next time. NOT! Silly Christians!!!
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| This Reminds Me.... | Apr 18th. at 8:46:13 pm EDT
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kenneth (Des Plaines, Illinois) - Email Me
It's time to make sure my ACLU dues are current! I have no problem with folks in Louisiana, or anywhere else being proud of their Christian culture or heritage or belief. Let them put up as many icons and crucifixes as they want in their homes, businesses.
These constant antics to put him, or the commandments in court houses has nothing whatever to do with cultural pride, or a legitimate interest in the history of juriprudence or anything of the sort. It is done in the spirit of spite and agression, in the same spirit that people burn a cross on your lawn. It is a deliberate provocation, a very un-sublte reminder of Who's Boss. It is a statement that America is a Christian nation, and that ONLY they have a real presumption of credibility before the law.
Most of the folks who sponsor these crusades, are quite open about that intent, when they think they're in friendly company. They would run us the way the Suadis and Iranians run their country, and they would do it by the close of business today if they were able. That's why the ACLU has to do what it does. If by some unimaginable flip of events pagans someday become the majority, I expect, and hope they would do the same to us if we tried to put up pentacles or statues of our deities everywhere on public ground.;
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| The French System Of Law Is Not Bad,... | Apr 18th. at 4:15:43 pm EDT
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Shadowbear (Hillsboro, Oregon) - Email Me
just different. France, a notibly non-religious government, has run under the code quite well for years. However, LA was SOLD to the US government to finance a war and, ever since then, it's inhabitants have been under the US constitution whether or not they like it. I doubt they were asked whether or not they wanted to change. What I can never understand about christians is why they cannot keep their religion in their hearts without constant pictures of the caracters from their book in front of them. It seems pagans can remember their gods without having their pictures everywhere, Supposedly you are not to make graven images of their gods - yet they all want to display images, can't they read their own book? Apparently not, since they follow very few of its tenants. I once worked with a very young witch who nicely said to me (I am old enough to be her mother) that I was a good christian woman - upon which I advised her that I was a witch with 30 years experience on her and wished she would lighten up with telling everyone she was casting spells on her enemies as she was giving us a bad name. - It seems most folks at work thought I was that traditional "good christian woman" which means to me that "good woman" or "good man" comes out the same in any religion.
No pictures, bible texts or 10 commandments in the courthouse, please - keep it private or pay the very expensive price. But, try to be that good person that makes people believe you are a good christian even if you are a good witch
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| Hmmm..... | Apr 18th. at 2:04:41 pm EDT
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Arachne Priestess (Cookeville, Tennessee) - Email Me
I was raised in New Orleans. We are talking about a state that had (before Katrina) one of the largest Gay/Lesbian populations in the country and in New Orleans, at least, the Occult and Paganism were widely accepted things.
At the same time, if you asked any born and bred Cajun where the South ended and the North began, they'd tell you it was somewhere just above Baton Rouge, the state's capital. Accepting or not, its still the South in an area of predominantly Catholics and Christians.
Oh and just to be clear, Louisiana law is not based on the same form of law as all the other states. Louisiana law is based off of French Napoleonic Code, while all of the other states are based on English Common Law. That is why one has to get two separate lawyers, one in their home state and one in Louisiana, if they have legal issues that cross the Louisiana border. (Hence the picture of Napoleon as a Lawmaker)
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| I May Just | Apr 18th. at 1:38:59 pm EDT
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Lea (Cedar Park, Texas) - Email Me
be having a very bad day, but...
I don't really care what they do anymore. They make their own laws, Do Not Kill and yet here is this how many year long war with nothing but killing and we're supposed to condone it. Do not steal and yet the goverment, corporations and others rake us all over the coals daily and we are supposed to just take it.
I for one am tired of fighting, I am tired of the arguing and judgement all of it.
Let them have their stupid picture of a jesus created by them for some of them. A white jewish jesus in the middle east? Come on, seriously.
The are supposed to worship God and then instead they worship jesus, a simple man who was murdered because he had different beliefs than the majority. He didn't die willingly for them as they think, the man was murdered for his beliefs.
I suppose that months after suffering a severe concussion in which you thought you had stepped somewhere you were not supposed to and then you remember why it actually happened it can open your eyes just a bit. You remember that night you wore your pentacle out in the open, you remember some nasty comments from a group of young men regarding that pentacle and yourself and finally you remember saying, Blessed Be to them and then you remember nothing of that night for a very long time until it all starts seeping back. Why has the memory returned when you thought it was lost forever, don't know. But I do know this, they will never change. They will always hate and think they are better, they will continue to harm themselves, others, this planet until nothing is left for them to harm.
I am done with all of them, and never, never did I think that would be a part of me. I have always helped, loved and cared for anyone and anything who asked or needed it. I have not sat in judgment upon them because it was not my right. I have tried and now I simply have to give up. Let them have what they want, let them have their prayers in school, let them recruit unsuspecting people to their ranks and let them go on believing what they think is true. Half of them will be poor sad earthbound spirits terrified of crossing because after all the horrible things they've done they do not want to end up in hell, so they just hang around becoming angrier than they were when they were alive. Let them grasp onto their ignorant beliefs like a twig in a raging river hoping it will save them. If there is a hell, I hope they all burn in it.
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| Maybe The French Had A Religious State | Apr 18th. at 12:39:09 pm EDT
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Sy (Atlanta, Georgia) - Email Me
in Louisiana, but as soon as it became apart of the US, it had follow US's rules. And the constitution does separate Church and State. It doesn't have that phrase but "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" tells me that Church and State are separate entities. And besides, Voodoo is a huge part of Louisiana culture, you cannot tell me it isn't. Why not have pictures of a lwa up? And if it's about having lawmakers pictures, why not have Julius Caesar or Caesar Augustus up? Or Muhammad, who, by the way, was an awesome lawmaker? Right now, it screams Christian to me, not openly any religion.
Christianity is a major part of our culture and our history here in the US, but if we stay stuck in our history, we never improve.
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| 'History' Isn't An Excuse | Apr 18th. at 12:02:47 pm EDT
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Harmony (Saint Petersburg, Florida) - Email Me
LA may indeed have been founded as a 'Christian' state, but that doesn't mean those who live there in the modern world should turn a blind eye to the blatant disregard for constitutional law (especially in the county courthouse, for crying out loud!)
If anything, this needs to be squashed hard, just as the resistance to integration was squashed. No non-Christian American should have to enter a courtroom wondering if the judge has pre-determined the outcome based on religious grounds (which that picture of Jesus pretty much guarantees to be the case.) I'll be impressed when LA ponies up some portraits of 'lawgivers' who aren't white Judeo-Christian men.
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| People | Apr 18th. at 11:55:34 am EDT
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william (Baton Rouge, Louisiana) - Email Me
need to go back and re learn what is actually meant by the seperation of church and state. This is beyond absurd.
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