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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 20106
[Civil]
Date Posted:
10/8/2008
11:34:25 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 4,028
RSS: 16,095
Comments: 9
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Fortunetelling Ban Tossed
Author: Bob Anderson Source: The Advocate (LA)
Title: FORTUNETELLING BAN TOSSED
A Livingston Parish Council ordinance outlawing fortunetelling and soothsaying is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled Tuesday.
A Wiccan minister, Cliff Eakin, sued the parish over the ordinance, asserting inspiration from the divine transmitted by a Wiccan minister should be treated legally the same way as a message from God transmitted to a congregation by a Christian minister.
“I would highly recommend that the council not appeal it,” Blayne Honeycutt, the council’s attorney, said of Tuesday’s ruling.
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Community Thoughts: There are 9 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| ... | Oct 10th. at 11:28:05 am EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
Since most everyone else seems to be missing the point, let me be the first to actually say straightforwardly "Congratulations!"
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| I Hate Glasses! | Oct 9th. at 2:33:07 pm EDT
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WitchPoet (Claremont, California) - Email Me - Web
But I really should put them on before I type a comment. Sorry for the typos.
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| It Ain't Easy Being Moderate! | Oct 9th. at 2:27:13 pm EDT
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WitchPoet (Claremont, California) - Email Me - Web
Having been a tarot reader in New Orleans for a number of years I certainly have my own opinion on the subject.
I definately agree that restrictions on legitimate readers and diviners are not to be tolerated. But I also feel that regulation and pentalies MUST be in place to control the spiritual predators that swim freely in the "New Age" and "Occult" markets.
The actual rules that were in place for most fo the time I was a reader were pretty well thought out. We were not allowed to charge a set price, payment was by donation at the end of the reading. We were allowed to quote a range that we usually received, like 10 to 20 or 15 to 30, but the bottom line was you took what they gave. Surprisingly very few people ever stiffed me by dropping a dollar or two and splitting. The few times I can recall it happenig were by young ghetto bred "adults" out on the town. For the most part people gave a median amount though often I got a fair amount more.
We also were not allowed to call out to people in order to preserve the more sedate atmostphere of the Square (as opposed to the chaos of Bourbon St.) We also basically had a first come first served rule for settting up in a particular spot. During the day the Artists had priority on the fence until 11:30 AM.
Mostly we all got along fairly well. But there was always an element of rebels. Sharks that saw that Sq. and doing readings, whether palm or tarot or whatever, as a wonderful scam opportunity.
For the most part the majority of readers could maintain a certain amount of order. Having three to 7 other readers walk up to you and explain that you are being a butthead does have it's effect. These rules I highyl supported. As did the majority of readers. But thre was another subculture on the Sq. Gypsy and pseudo-Gypsy families. I have had it explained to me multiple times that gypsies have their own rules and simply cannot be expected to conform to the laws and rules of the society around them. It is hard to stay calm when a cop explain to a reader that she may NOT call out to people offering readings. Then the cop walks around the corner and the grandmother with two daugheters and three grand-daughters working the Sq. with her calls out the the next person who passes "Palm reading deary?" She says. "Only $20.00". About the only way to get them to reform (temprarily) was to FILM them doing it and make a complaint and then, for a week maybe they mellow out and follow the rules. Obviously most readers are not the type of people who want to take that kind of road. The scammers caused a lot of tension on the Sq. I shudder to contemplate the abuses that occur behind closed doors!!! I have heard, in public, the curse scam and numerous examples of a reader asking for more money for another question. My policy was donation at the end and the reading lasts as long as it lasts or until I run out of cards. (which I did a couple times ) .
Anyone who pretends that the divination BUSINESS needs no regulation is a fool or one of the very element that needs watching!
There are a lot of people out there who want to feel their life is "O.K.". That things will work out even when they already kow they probably will not. Fora soul dead "reader" to take advantage of this and dig more and more money out of people to ask the same question over and over till they like the answer is easy. I have had to forcefully tell people that NO they canot ask that question again. Unfortunately the spiritual guidance realm is a playground for the ethically challanged. These people have no shame, no more than a hypocritical TV preacher or a "once bouhgt I stay bought" politician or a D.A. who cares more for a conviction than for guilt or innocence.
So, while I reject the idea of limiting religious expression, I strongly support he need to monitor and control the BUSINESS of spiritual guidance.
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| I Don't Think It Was Ever About "Fortune-telling" | Oct 9th. at 12:01:58 am EDT
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nasionnaich (Stanchfield, Minnesota) - Email Me
The law, as written, made it illegal to "interpret" anything, for anyone, at any time, which could in any way be construed as "superstition" or 'occult". They forgot that when a Christian minister/priest/deacon/etc tells his/her congregation that "God wants you to do (fill in the blank) ", that minister/priest/etc is interpreting something for others, something which is seen by MILLIONS of Americans as mere superstition.
The law, as written, was far too vague, far too broad -- and most important of all: far too un-Constitutional. Making all forms of non-Christian religious practices illegal just to "protect the public from fraudulent fortune-tellers" should never be tolerated by anyone. Not even by the supposed "Christians" writing those laws.
---nasionnaich
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| Caveat Emptor Balanced With Caveat Venditor | Oct 8th. at 4:17:03 pm EDT
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karrie9 (Kenosha, Wisconsin) - Email Me - Web
There are always the cons but that shouldn't wipe out the pros (pun intended) .
A sensible insistence that the price should be agreed upon beforehand sure is preferable to religiously discriminatory "concern."
I don't expect "for entertainment purposes only" phrase to die out overnight though.
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| Common Sense Should Always Be A Prerequisite. | Oct 8th. at 2:31:01 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
I agree with another poster that fraud is a problem, especially with "free" readings. Yes, the Buyer should beware. Common sense seems to be left at the door these days as people seek to absolve themselves of any and all responsibility when shopping. Granted, some scams are very clever ruses, but others can be seen through -and yet people get taken every year. The curse scam is always a winner it seems- and it gives the rest of the readers a bad name.
Still, I'm glad the ban was tossed. There are very good readers out there who actually do their best for their querants.
I have never charged for any of my readings because I figure that if the reading is wrong at least the price is right and no one can say they were overcharged. And for those that worry too much about what's either in Runes or Cards, I also say the these are the shadows of things that could be. After all, if it is the future they seek to know, then they should also know that it is always in motion and that they can change most of it.
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| Actually, Fortune Telling Fraud Is A Problem... | Oct 8th. at 1:41:24 pm EDT
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Sage Blackthorn (Riverside, California) - Email Me
Out here in California, and in Riverside in particular we have run into a number of people offering "free" tarot readings out on the street. Their con is invariably the same, they give a person a "free" reading, and then at some point they will put on a surprised look and say something to the effect of "I see that your ancestors are displeased with you and you are cursed!" Then for anywhere between $300 to $3000 they will offer to remove the curse from their client. We had one lady in our store that paid an online psychic/Tarot Reader $300 to do a spell for her in another state. Now there's not really much a person can do legally when the fine print on the website says "For Entertainment Purposes Only". I still just shake my head over that one.
Personally I don't believe that readers should charge for doing divinations of any type, and when I do rune castings for people, I don't charge a single penny. If someone is insistent on leaving money, I tell them to either make a donation to the local pet shelter, or buy something from the shop I work at. But that's just my feelings on it. I do think that if a reader is going to charge for their services, the price should be agreed upon before hand. And any time someone pulls the "You ancestors have cursed you and it will cost you hundreds of dollars to be free of this curse" type of scam, a person should be suspicious. All the reputable Tarot Readers I know will simply tell you what they see in the cards, both good and bad, and if there is a problem they leave it upto you to decide what to do about it. Their job is merely to make you aware of what's going on and leave the decision upto you. Much as the Pythia at the Temple of Apollo at Delphi was noted to have told a General "If you cross this river, a great army will be destroyed." Even though the General chose to cross the river, and it was his own army that was destroyed, it was still his choice, and there was no coersion to one thing or the other.
And that is where you have to beware. If a fortune teller or tarot reader tries in some way to coerce more money out of you than was initially agreed upon, they are most likely a con-artist and should be reported to the police. If they just say "This is what I see in the cards, the decision about what to do is upto you." Then they are probably on the level.
Sage
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| Convict Not Through The Ordinance In Question... | Oct 8th. at 12:11:21 pm EDT
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karrie9 (Kenosha, Wisconsin) - Email Me - Web
...but through anti fraud laws?
Fraud...
Well, I suppose we could bring up Kissing Hanks Ass (donkey!) . Sure sounds like mafia type tactics to me!
Text: [Web LINK]
Youtube Video: [Web LINK]
Or how about The Onion's "Judge Orders God to Break up into Smaller Dieties?"
[Web LINK]
Anyone can make any other religion and their associated practices look like unethical fraud but the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on humankind is the purposefully ignorant "understanding" that virtues, morals, and ethics are religiously proprietary and need to be visited upon your arse by way of uber normalization rather than pluralism. [Web LINK]
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