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Page: Profile: Wren's Nest News Local
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Article: 18324
[Politics]
Date Posted:
8/4/2007
11:34:26 am EDT
Wvox Stats
Views: 6,685
RSS: 16,442
Comments: 25
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Pagan Rhetoric Is Nothing New (Letter)
Author: Randy Brown (Letter to the Editor) Source: Morning Sentinel, Maine Today
Title: PAGAN RHETORIC IS NOTHING NEW
Lara Dionne in her Aug. 1 letter (http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/letters/4136738.html) essentially calls Mike Heath from the Christian Civic League a hate-monger. She calls Rita Moran, from the Maine Democrats, "one heck of a woman."
Dionne falls in lockstep with most of the secular-progressives when she calls Christians hate-mongers because we recognize that pagans have perverted these ideals, while we promote them for the good of society and because we disagree with their point of view.
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Community Thoughts: There are 25 comments posted | Reverse Sort |
| What's That Sound?? | Aug 7th. at 1:24:08 pm EDT
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Mysteries Child (Garfield, Arkansas) - Email Me
"What a field day for the heat; a thousand people in the street, singin' songs and carryin' signs, mostly say 'Hooray for our side'..."
And that covers it. No matter which side of it you want to stand on, those who say it your way are on the side of love and truth and the other guys are liars and hatemongers.
Christian... Pagan... Looking back thru history, both groups have committed atrocity after atrocity out of the fear the other group would take the power they perceived as rightfully theirs.
It's centuries past time to stop throwing stones. To just... smurfing... multilaterally... quit it.
That's gonna happen, and I'm the queen of China.
Where's my shovel??
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| How Embaressing! | Aug 6th. at 3:56:52 pm EDT
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Ezri (Centennial, Colorado) - Email Me
I can't imagine how humiliated I would be if I had written a letter so full of ignorance, and then had it published on the internet.
I mean I almost feel sorry for the guy!
"Paganism is diametrically opposed to Christianity."
He even tried to use big words! Ahh well. At least he TRIED to write something intelligent.
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| To Take This Point By Point | Aug 5th. at 8:05:30 am EDT
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stalkingwolf (Bullhead City, Arizona) - Email Me
"The reason pagans are featured on the Web site is to expose paganism for what it is. Paganism is diametrically opposed to Christianity. "
I find no where a tenet of any "Pagan belief" that says
that belief is opposed to Xian beliefs. Opposed to practices of xians probably.
"It was a paganistic society that persecuted the first Christians."
I find it interesting that modern xians denounce any beliefs other than their own as " Pagan". This includes
Protestants denouncing Catholics, Catholice denouncing Protestants, Baptists VS Pentacostals, etc,etc,etc, in fact of the more than 100 denominations of xianity each proclaims it self the only true path.
"Christianity is about love, truth, morality and justice. Dionne falls in lockstep with most of the secular-progressives when she calls Christians hate-mongers because we recognize that pagans have perverted these ideals, while we promote them for the good of society and because we disagree with their point of view."
Right.
Need I mention again that it was the most devout
followers of Pauline xianity that gave to posterity
such loving terms and practices, as The Inquisition, the Rack, Iron Maiden , Heretic ( one who makes a choice) , Burning times, Pressing, The Third Degree and of course all of the various "tests "of The Mallus Malefacarum. I can add
here all of the loving practices of the various xian
beliefs during their invasion of the Americas,
beating Native American Children until they memorized prayers, twisting barbed wire around
their heads when they dared to speak their Native
Language. And the list goes on and on and on.
So as a great xian of history once said ( slightly revised) " AS FOR ME AND MY FAMILY WE WILL CONTINUE IN THE TENETS OF OUR PAGAN
BELIEFS."
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| If Early Christians Were Persecuted | Aug 5th. at 12:22:21 am EDT
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Shadowbear (Hillsboro, Oregon) - Email Me
who else could have done it but what they call "pagans" - there never had been any christians before, everyone was a pagan (or jewish) there weren't even any muslims yet.
Since pretty much everyone was being attacked by the romans or someone else for that matter and christians were the newest and smallest religious group - made up largely of those difficult jews who caused the romans so much trouble - of course they were persecuted.
Christians were fast learners though, the stole holidays and persecution styles from everyone and managed to take the prize for persecution over the ages since their rule has been longer than anyone else's. Their biggest problem is that they are diametrically opposed to every other religion since they alone have the TRUTH.
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| Is It Really Worth It? | Aug 4th. at 10:42:11 pm EDT
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Shrike (Northumberland, Pennsylvania) - Email Me
Folks,
This is a letter to the editor in a small town newspaper. You see this stuff every day. Every town has their own Letters to the Editor section filled with spite. Just open your town's paper, and you'll see it. The really fun ones devote a full page to anyone who can email or leave a message by telephone. It makes you want to laugh, until you realize that the people who contribute to such forums take themselves seriously.
It may not be directed toward paganism or Wicca all the time, if at all, but there will always be someone who's looking for a fight. This is nothing new, and neither is the righteous indignation one feels against the article. Righteous indignation can be addictive, you know. We all get sucked in sometimes. Heck, I joined the ACLU a few years ago because I got so sick and tired of the virulent tirades against gay marriage in the local paper. However, I never responded in kind.
Seriously, what are we accomplishing by sharing this? Are we trying to collectively raise the pagan blood pressure level? Is there something productive we do by raising some sort of critical mass of reaction to one letter? No one posted a comment on the newspaper's website, I noticed. If it offends so much, go ahead, play the game, post a rebuttal. However, be aware that getting involved doesn't change anyone's mind, it won't avenge a perceived or actual slight, and all it will do is bring everyone involved down. Unless, of course, you get off on that sort of fruitless argument.
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| Neither Is Xtian Rhetoric... | Aug 4th. at 4:06:49 pm EDT
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bigcat (peoria, Illinois) - Email Me
Yeah- we all know about those dreadful terrible Romans and how they persecuted those sweet little innocent xtain sheep.
Actually, to be fair, the Romans were also persecuting and enslaving just about anybody else that they could conquer. So the xtians were just the johnny come latelys when it came to the persecution game.
However, they were quick learners, and while they were railing against the entertainments in the Colosseum, once they got into power, they did nothing to stop it. but turned it to their own use, under Constantine.
Because of their intense hatred for anything Pagan, they tried to instill this into their conversion tactics- and managed to stand in the way essentially of anything not sanctioned by their teachings- all in the name of truth, morality and light, of course. That included bathing (the Romans took lots of baths) a sentiment which set the stage for the Black Plagues, Science ( I mean, why else did Galileo end up in permanent house arrest) and the Arts. ( some of those early xtain works are sooo ugly) . In fact, the church tried to stick its collective paws in just about every aspect of human life- and if they did anything good, it was most generally unintentional. They have tried to rewrite history at every turn to their favor and to match their book of course. Anything even remotely contradictory was swept under the rug and silenced those that didn't agree.
If mankind has advanced at all, it isn't because of xtianity but despite it. Xtianity has tried to commandeer every advancement it could not control because otherwise they lose money and power and influence. In essence, making them no better than the terrible old Romans that they displaced. In fact-possibly even worse. Since they too suffer under the same awful scourge that the Romans suffered, Excess. A condition which had caused many an Ancient Pagan pundit and scholar to take umbrage at it when the Romans and Greeks had it. And causes many "good" xtians to turn a blind eye to it, since they believe it is the condition of every one else-- even though they are the chief cause and current arbiters.
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| Well.... Yeah | Aug 4th. at 2:02:09 pm EDT
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Sy (Atlanta, Georgia) - Email Me
Yeah, Pagans persecuted Christians. No one's saying that Romans didn't persecute Christians. Nero used Christians to light his gardens by burning them alive. But, then the Roman government adopted Christianity because they saw that it was a great method to keep people under control. Then the Christians persecuted the Pagans. All the temples were shut down, the Olympics ceased, and all that refused to turn to Christianity were imprisoned or executed.
Religions do that in theocracies. Whoever is on top does all they can in order to stay on top. That's just how it is, not matter what the religion. Anyone who pushes for theocracy is a hatemonger, because theocracy demands that one persecutes others in order to maintain power.
I don't really know what the lady's letter was in response to, but, come on. She doesn't know what she's talking about when it comes to Paganism.
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| If Anyone's A Hate Monger, It's The Letter Writer | Aug 4th. at 1:55:32 pm EDT
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Moonlight Wolf (Bradford, England) - Email Me
If this writer knew anything she would realise it's not Pagans who pervert the ideas of Christianity but Christians themselves.
It's the silly fundies who claim to be preaching peace and love while spouting hatred about anyone who doesn't believe as they do while at the same time starting wars in the name of God. Can you see anything more hypocritical than that.
Yes, originally Pagans did persecute Christians but that was before the Church had power. When the Church had power Christians didn't just persecute Pagans but anyone who didn't agree with what they were saying and as a result thousands across Europe were either hanged or burned at the stake. Did this person even read any history?
Finally Paganism is not opposed to Christianity, we do not believe in the Devil, we do not campaign for the tearing down of churches or for the banning of crucufixes and Bibles. If anything it is the fundies trying to get us banned. We just want to be able to practice our faith openly and peacefully as other people do. We don't want fundie rhetoric shoved down our throats because we will simply throw it back up again.
If Christians really want to show how good they are and show the peaceful and loving side of the religion then why don't more of them do charity work or help people out instead of trying to convert everyone to what they believe in. There are worse problems in the world than what people believe in.
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| I Have But One Thing To Say | Aug 4th. at 1:50:31 pm EDT
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Aidan Odinson (Collingdale, Pennsylvania) - Email Me - Web
My wife (who is also my HPS) is studying to become a therapist, and what he writes here sounds very much like the symptoms of something that a lecturer recently mentioned.
She will be beginning a practicum soon. Would he like to make an appointment with her?
He does indeed need some history lessons. But he also sounds like he needs a good therapist.
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| Yep, Pretty Typical... | Aug 4th. at 1:18:05 pm EDT
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Friday Scott (Middleton, Wisconsin) - Email Me
How do you like that:
"Defaming Pagans isn't hatemongering and defamation, now let me add more: they're obviously Roman Imperials opposed to everything good and decent in the world, which is of course us Christians."
Yah. There we go.
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| Not Surprised At All | Aug 4th. at 12:09:23 pm EDT
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Shadow Raven (Welland, Ontario) - Email Me
This kind of thinking from someone is nothing new either. I have nothing against Christians, my family is Christian and they have been very accepting of my Pagan ways. It's the ones that shove their beliefs down the throats of others whether they want it or not that drive me crazy!!
Bright Blessings
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| ... | Aug 4th. at 11:46:30 am EDT
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Draken (Bronx, New York) - Email Me - Web
Ladies and gentlemen, the true face of fundie christianism. They would love nothing more than for us to be either converted or killed, though current laws prohibit this practice.
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